Shocks
02-03-2015, 04:44 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,398
yes they are but they are far better than what he has and are a lot less than the bilsteins, so not knowing if he was filthy rich like the rest of you guys seem to be, and the fact that he had the gr2's and thought they were at least acceptable,it seemed to me that it was a prudent, reasonable, intelligent decision to give him a lower cost option in addition to the more exhorbinate ones you guys posted.
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Last edited by barnett468; 02-03-2015 at 05:13 PM.
02-03-2015, 06:02 PM
#12
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
$400 for a set of 4 shocks is not that expensive these days, especially custom valved shocks. The shocks my parents Honda CR-V costs almost 2x as much, and that's just a factory plain Jane replacement shock. The Bilsteins also have a lifetime warranty, so if a shock ever wears (unlikely), you can send it back and they'll put it on the shock dyno (to see if it's your imagination or if it's really worn), and if it is worn they'll send you a new one.
If you look at in in the context of original performance levels using the simple 50+ year old technology the cars came with, then sure...$400 is a lot for a set of shocks. If you look at it in the context of a modern performance capability, then $400 is dirt cheap for what those shocks provide.
If anyone has spent any money on suspension parts for a Classic that aren't stock suspension (better springs, roller perches, bushing upgrades, control arm upgrades/relocations etc), it's pointless to not put a decent shock on it and basically wastes all of the other money spent. The shock has more impact and ride and performance than any other part of the suspension system. Once you're close to $1k invested into suspension, it's pointless to use a shock like the KYB's, because you'll never even get half out of the suspension. It's like putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari.
If someone thinks $400 for custom valved Bilsteins is too much to spend on performance, they need to get a reality check and find a cheaper hobby. Like hookers and cocaine.
If you look at in in the context of original performance levels using the simple 50+ year old technology the cars came with, then sure...$400 is a lot for a set of shocks. If you look at it in the context of a modern performance capability, then $400 is dirt cheap for what those shocks provide.
If anyone has spent any money on suspension parts for a Classic that aren't stock suspension (better springs, roller perches, bushing upgrades, control arm upgrades/relocations etc), it's pointless to not put a decent shock on it and basically wastes all of the other money spent. The shock has more impact and ride and performance than any other part of the suspension system. Once you're close to $1k invested into suspension, it's pointless to use a shock like the KYB's, because you'll never even get half out of the suspension. It's like putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari.
If someone thinks $400 for custom valved Bilsteins is too much to spend on performance, they need to get a reality check and find a cheaper hobby. Like hookers and cocaine.
02-03-2015, 06:17 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,398
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Last edited by barnett468; 02-03-2015 at 07:03 PM.
02-03-2015, 06:47 PM
#14
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
I meant that Mike at his new shop probably only has JRI available. His site just went up yesterday, and that's what it looks like.
Maier Racing still has the Bilstein's, and also has a coilover kit that uses a JRI. Mike Maier Inc. (Mike's new business) looks to be using JRI exclusively.
And yeah, JRI's are very, very expensive. I think the guy who set up JRI is a former top shock guru from Penske (which is equally expensive). Whether they're worth what they cost is debatable. I think they are IF you have the spare cash to spend on them. If budget is at all a concern, then no.
Just FYI, the JRI's at Maier Racing, non adjustable are $1,200 per set of 4, single adjustable are $2,500 per set, and double adjustable are $4,000 per set. So, yeah...... I can consider the non-adjustable a good value and marginal in terms of budget constraints (provided you have the cash and are primarily concerned about handling performance), but the single and double adjustable are unconstrained budget for racing.
Also it looks like the price of the Bilstein's went up. The sport, which are for a 600ish lb spring range, used to be just under $400, now they're $450.
Maier Racing still has the Bilstein's, and also has a coilover kit that uses a JRI. Mike Maier Inc. (Mike's new business) looks to be using JRI exclusively.
And yeah, JRI's are very, very expensive. I think the guy who set up JRI is a former top shock guru from Penske (which is equally expensive). Whether they're worth what they cost is debatable. I think they are IF you have the spare cash to spend on them. If budget is at all a concern, then no.
Just FYI, the JRI's at Maier Racing, non adjustable are $1,200 per set of 4, single adjustable are $2,500 per set, and double adjustable are $4,000 per set. So, yeah...... I can consider the non-adjustable a good value and marginal in terms of budget constraints (provided you have the cash and are primarily concerned about handling performance), but the single and double adjustable are unconstrained budget for racing.
Also it looks like the price of the Bilstein's went up. The sport, which are for a 600ish lb spring range, used to be just under $400, now they're $450.
02-12-2015, 08:37 PM
#17
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Konis aren't that great, they just live off their name these days. Back in the day they were good shocks, and on mild applications they do ok; but they're not a modern monotube gas shock, so they'll fade really bad under heavy performance driving and you'll end up with no damping.
Also, they're built like garbage from a performance standpoint, you can tell if you put them on a shock dyno and cycle them...the damping curves are wildly inconsistent between the same part number shocks. So if you put a set of 4 Konis on a car, every shock will have different damping rates, and the adjustable ones are even worse.
From a performance standpoint they're ok, and better than KYB's as long as you're not racing...but they tend to be really overpriced these days for what they are.
Also, they're built like garbage from a performance standpoint, you can tell if you put them on a shock dyno and cycle them...the damping curves are wildly inconsistent between the same part number shocks. So if you put a set of 4 Konis on a car, every shock will have different damping rates, and the adjustable ones are even worse.
From a performance standpoint they're ok, and better than KYB's as long as you're not racing...but they tend to be really overpriced these days for what they are.
02-12-2015, 10:35 PM
#18
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 55
Konis aren't that great, they just live off their name these days. Back in the day they were good shocks, and on mild applications they do ok; but they're not a modern monotube gas shock, so they'll fade really bad under heavy performance driving and you'll end up with no damping.
Also, they're built like garbage from a performance standpoint, you can tell if you put them on a shock dyno and cycle them...the damping curves are wildly inconsistent between the same part number shocks. So if you put a set of 4 Konis on a car, every shock will have different damping rates, and the adjustable ones are even worse.
From a performance standpoint they're ok, and better than KYB's as long as you're not racing...but they tend to be really overpriced these days for what they are.
Also, they're built like garbage from a performance standpoint, you can tell if you put them on a shock dyno and cycle them...the damping curves are wildly inconsistent between the same part number shocks. So if you put a set of 4 Konis on a car, every shock will have different damping rates, and the adjustable ones are even worse.
From a performance standpoint they're ok, and better than KYB's as long as you're not racing...but they tend to be really overpriced these days for what they are.
that can't afford them talking themselves into how they "aren't that great" or other absolute baloney like the above.They're amazing on the street or track.
In fact they ride better than my 2010 Mustang around town! They're worth EVERY penny I paid for them!Front
82 1388SP3
KONI online Price: $306.00 per pair
Rear
82 1389
KONI online Price: $306.00 per pair
02-13-2015, 02:13 PM
#19
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
The classics are terrible for the price. Don't believe me...ask someone with a shock dyno who has actually measured their ability objectively. They're wildly inconsistent, their damping control for the price is terrible (derivative of damping vs piston acceleration), and they have absolutely terrible heat management and fade like mad on a track (once Koni's get hot you lose the shock because they foam and fade out).
You don't see people winning races in competitive events in classic Mustangs with Konis. You do see people winning with Bilsteins (largely because they're crazy customizable from the factory) and Penskes/JRI's (the hyper evolved Great White sharks of the hydraulic shock world).
If we're talking about off the shelf Koni vs Bilstein, that would be one thing. But the Bilsteins from Maier are custom valved specifically to classic Mustangs with specific spring rates, based on 30+ years of shock dyno and on track development specific to our cars. That's the real advantage to Bilstein, is they offer from the factory a bazillion parts to custom tune their shocks. The out of the box Bilsteins for newer cars aren't that great though, and the Konis tend to be superior. But any properly custom valved Bilstein is > any Koni.
As for ride quality, using the "sport" series from Maier (the same ones they used on their track cars before they switched to the JRI), my car rides better than my friends '07 Shelby. It made him change his shocks from the factory track packs to Tokicos. My car still rides better, and handles better (but that's more a function of weight than anything else). My car also rides better than my parents Honda, and every car I ever test drove when driving for Honda, including the Acura luxury prototypes we had (which rode ****ing nice). The Konis for the classics do ride nice, but they give up a ton of performance to do so.
You don't see people winning races in competitive events in classic Mustangs with Konis. You do see people winning with Bilsteins (largely because they're crazy customizable from the factory) and Penskes/JRI's (the hyper evolved Great White sharks of the hydraulic shock world).
If we're talking about off the shelf Koni vs Bilstein, that would be one thing. But the Bilsteins from Maier are custom valved specifically to classic Mustangs with specific spring rates, based on 30+ years of shock dyno and on track development specific to our cars. That's the real advantage to Bilstein, is they offer from the factory a bazillion parts to custom tune their shocks. The out of the box Bilsteins for newer cars aren't that great though, and the Konis tend to be superior. But any properly custom valved Bilstein is > any Koni.
As for ride quality, using the "sport" series from Maier (the same ones they used on their track cars before they switched to the JRI), my car rides better than my friends '07 Shelby. It made him change his shocks from the factory track packs to Tokicos. My car still rides better, and handles better (but that's more a function of weight than anything else). My car also rides better than my parents Honda, and every car I ever test drove when driving for Honda, including the Acura luxury prototypes we had (which rode ****ing nice). The Konis for the classics do ride nice, but they give up a ton of performance to do so.
02-13-2015, 11:17 PM
#20
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 55
The classics are terrible for the price. Don't believe me...ask someone with a shock dyno who has actually measured their ability objectively. They're wildly inconsistent, their damping control for the price is terrible (derivative of damping vs piston acceleration), and they have absolutely terrible heat management and fade like mad on a track (once Koni's get hot you lose the shock because they foam and fade out).
You don't see people winning races in competitive events in classic Mustangs with Konis. You do see people winning with Bilsteins (largely because they're crazy customizable from the factory) and Penskes/JRI's (the hyper evolved Great White sharks of the hydraulic shock world).
If we're talking about off the shelf Koni vs Bilstein, that would be one thing. But the Bilsteins from Maier are custom valved specifically to classic Mustangs with specific spring rates, based on 30+ years of shock dyno and on track development specific to our cars. That's the real advantage to Bilstein, is they offer from the factory a bazillion parts to custom tune their shocks. The out of the box Bilsteins for newer cars aren't that great though, and the Konis tend to be superior. But any properly custom valved Bilstein is > any Koni.
As for ride quality, using the "sport" series from Maier (the same ones they used on their track cars before they switched to the JRI), my car rides better than my friends '07 Shelby. It made him change his shocks from the factory track packs to Tokicos. My car still rides better, and handles better (but that's more a function of weight than anything else). My car also rides better than my parents Honda, and every car I ever test drove when driving for Honda, including the Acura luxury prototypes we had (which rode ****ing nice). The Konis for the classics do ride nice, but they give up a ton of performance to do so.
You don't see people winning races in competitive events in classic Mustangs with Konis. You do see people winning with Bilsteins (largely because they're crazy customizable from the factory) and Penskes/JRI's (the hyper evolved Great White sharks of the hydraulic shock world).
If we're talking about off the shelf Koni vs Bilstein, that would be one thing. But the Bilsteins from Maier are custom valved specifically to classic Mustangs with specific spring rates, based on 30+ years of shock dyno and on track development specific to our cars. That's the real advantage to Bilstein, is they offer from the factory a bazillion parts to custom tune their shocks. The out of the box Bilsteins for newer cars aren't that great though, and the Konis tend to be superior. But any properly custom valved Bilstein is > any Koni.
As for ride quality, using the "sport" series from Maier (the same ones they used on their track cars before they switched to the JRI), my car rides better than my friends '07 Shelby. It made him change his shocks from the factory track packs to Tokicos. My car still rides better, and handles better (but that's more a function of weight than anything else). My car also rides better than my parents Honda, and every car I ever test drove when driving for Honda, including the Acura luxury prototypes we had (which rode ****ing nice). The Konis for the classics do ride nice, but they give up a ton of performance to do so.
This is why I feel people get hung too much on the price weighing into their decision process on them! Granted they did increase about $70/pair in last couple years I would still do them again, esp. since they have a long history on Mustangs.
Last edited by WestCoastShelby; 02-13-2015 at 11:20 PM.
