HancockRacing

[align=left]I am considering updating my race engine in our NMRA / ORSCA 10.5 Outlaw style car. I would like to hear the opinions of other Mustang guys and gals out there as to which combo the majority of people like to see race.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]We are trying very hard to attract a primary sponsor for our car for the 2008 season and consumer input is crucial for helping us determine what sponsorship markets to persue. I am going to list the mods and a few pictures of the car as well as examples of the different combinations that we are considering and would very much appreciate anyinput that you guyshave time to make comments about. Thanks in advance for all of your help in this matter and I am very open to your opinions.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]The following information is about the car we have now and thiswill bethe platform that we will be starting with.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Chassis:[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]
25.5c Chassis (all moly)
Black Powdercoat sheet metal
Skinny Kid Ladder Link Bars
Afco Rear coil overs
AJE Moly front K-member and A-Arms
Bikel Pro Travel Limiters
Strange front struts
Flaming River Steering
Wilwood master cylinder
Aerospace front brakes
Wilwood rear
Kirkey Seats
RJS Belts
5# Firebottle suppression system
Stroud cannon launcher parachute
Fab 9 housing
Moser 40 spline gun drilled axles with M/W spline and 5/8 studs
M/W center section with 3.89 Pro Gear
Weld Aluma-Star 15 x 12 Double beadlock rear wheels
M/T 29.5 x 10.5 Stiff
Weld Aluma-Star 15 x 3 1/2 front wheels
M/T front tires 26 x 4 1/2"


Electronics:[/align][align=left]
Autometer Gauges
Autometer Ultimate Tach
MSD Digital 7 Ignition w/ traction control & data logging
ARC Pro Mod overhead control panel
NOS Digiset Timer (2nd stage)
Powermaster 16v dry cell battery
Flaming river battery disconnect
[/align][align=left]
Engine:[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]
Jon Kaase 598" BBF
Bryant Billet Crank
MGP Aluminum Nitrous Rods
Venolia Gas Ported Pistons (NOS)
Kaase C460 heads 514in / 395 ex
Titanium Valves
Ultradyne Roller Cam
K-Motion Springs
T&D Shaft Mount Rocker Arms
Hogan Sheet Metal Intake
Hogan Polished Valve Covers
2 barry Grant 1150 Dominators
MSD Crank Trigger
MSD Distributor
Step headers with 5" collectors and custom 5" mufflers
2 Applied Nitrous Tech. Fogger Systems (by Jeff Prock)

Fuel System:
Magnafuel PS500 Fuel Pump
magnafuel 4 port fuel pressure regulators
Holley / ANT NOS Fuel Regulators (polished)
Starlite Kevlar & SS braided hoses throughout (no rubber anywhere)

Body:[/align][align=left]
Lexan all the way around (no visible fastners)
Pro Stock scoop bonded on 6" extended cowl (only part of the car I am not happy with)
Skinny Kid rear wing
Black over marbleized gray bottom paint with bright aluminum tribal stripe
factory front clip but made removable as one piece

We are either going to update the nitrous motor by adding a third nitrous system, add twin turbos or possibly use a 14-71 Supercharger. We are looking for a combination that will easily support the 2000hp number that is required to compete in the class that we race in but fan and sponsor appeal is just as important if not more important than overall power production. We wantto choose a combination that will attract themost exposure for our potential sponsors.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]The picture below is of a car that has the same engine that we are using but has a pair of Precison Turbos. It is run on alcohol, has two injectors per cylinderand has no intercooler. This will be the exact same setup that we will be using if we go the turbo route. This is currently the record holder in our class.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]This is a picture of a Mustang with a small blower. I think that this is just an 8-71 instead of the 14-71 but will give you an idea of the what a blower motor will look like on a BBF in a Fox Body Mustang[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align]

JD1969

Honesly I am always impressed by a turbo motor. To me a 14-71 is just old, worn out technology, they look ugly and don't seem to put down the numbers that they should. On a side note there are not very many people on this site who even know what a 10.5 Outlaw car is, so take some of the opinions you get here with a grain of salt.

Gary H

Is the GMC blower even legal in outlaw? Erica Ortiz is running a twin turbo setup in her promod car.
http://www.promodfullthrottle.com/Home.htm

You should try www.460ford.com . Either way, N20 or turbo will get you there... I think the turbo would be easier to get to hook than the N20, less of a shock. More $$$, but less hassle than plumbing several stages of N20.

HancockRacing

Yes any engine combination is legal in 10.5 racing with the exception of nitromethane. I am not looking to duplicate the combination in Erica's car even though they are similar engines. Erica's car had a stock block and the A460 Cobra jet heads last year but she may have upgraded that engine since she has new sponsors on board for 08. I am looking at something like Eric Dillard and Tim Lynch have in the Pro Line race cars. Both of their cars have the same basic foundation as what I have to work with. 4 bolt aftermarket block with the Kaase style C460 wedge heads. My combination will have a sheet metal intake as well if we go with the twin turbo set up. Thanks to all of you that are helping me to put my thoughts into writing.

HancockRacing

I am not sure that I can agree that the 14-71 is worn out technology. Look at the Pro Mod and all the fuel classes. Fuel is making 8000hp with a hi helix 14-71 and this is with around 500 cubic inches. the nitro is a big part of the power production but the blower crams the extra air in there to make it possible. Turbos might be easier to get off the line with the small tires though it could cost upwards of $30k to upgrade to twin turbos the right way!

my77stang

whaaa??????? a weiand or dyers sittin up there looks sexier than any other piece of metal you could bolt to your engine.

that being said, i would think a twin turbo setup would build the boost faster thus making your car faster. can i ask why you would run it without an intercooler? to me that seems like your leaving power on the table. another thing to consider would be meth injection, is that even a possibility here?

btw, can i have sex with your motor?

JD1969

Yea I should have said that a different way. Top Fuel, Pro Mod and other classes use those blowers and make big power, as you stated much of that is due to the Nitro, but also many classes do not allow certain combinations (as I am sure you are well aware). If it were me, I would build a turbo car, they do cost more but they seem to be that cars to beat these days, N2O would be my second choice. I am just not a fan of roots blowers, too much heat and no easy way to cool things down and too much drag on the engine.

JD1969

On certain cars a roots looks good, but not a fox IMO. Besides you drive a Pinto, your opinion is not valid.

HancockRacing

The reason that we are not running an intercooler is because we are going to be running the new combination on alcohol/methanol. There would be no need for meth injection as that is all that will be going into the motor. Methanol does not produce nearly as much heat as gasoline and does not cause detonation like gas. This is why the meth injestion kits are so populer right now. Just imagine the power improvement if that is all that you use. Cooling the charge air and reducing detonationis the primary reason to use an intercooler. If you cna keep the charge air cool w/o and intercooler, then there is less restriction in the air path coming into the intake. I hope that this has answered your question as to why we don't want to use an intercooler.

If you look at cars like Pro Mod, Alcohol Funny cars etc. This is why you don't see them using an intercooler. When you mix nitro with the alky, you get a bomb waiting to happen but both Pro Mod and the alcohol classes do not allow any percentage of nitro.Nitroenginesgenerate a LOT of cylinder pressure and do make an extreme amount of heat along with BIG power. Alcohol by itself does not produce the same heat as either gasoline or nitromethane.

We are talking to a number of different turbo manufacturers as well as some blower guys and will be making a decision as soon as the final 08 rules are written for the class that we plan to run in with ORSCA next year.

BTW:

What is the largest picture that we can post in the message forums? I tried to post a larger picture of what we are considering on the turbo deal and it didn't post for me.

JD1969

If you host the pic in your photo album on here you can use [img]url[/img] and have the pic full size.