Just got stage 3 comp cams!
12-13-2006, 06:03 PM
#21
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 853
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
ORIGINAL: FuriousGeorge
That's not fun to hear [&:]. The better your car breathes, the more of a difference cams make. Brent recommends a 90mm+ CAI for stage 3 cams as a smaller intake such as a JLT may not supply quite enough air (he said it is a small difference). Long tubes should improve your exhaust cycle which will also help out significantly. By the way, cams are only supposed to have the biggest noticeable difference (other than the lope) in high RPM range.
ORIGINAL: nothsa
Right now i'm disappointed in my CompCams, also running the Stage3 from Brenspeed. My last resort is this christmas getting my headers installed with highflow cats. Both MusicCity and gibson have headers but i'm hoping that will fix my problem. When I put the pedal down right now there is now difference from when I didn't have them installed except a very minor difference at higher RPM's.
At this current point I wish I would have just gotten a blower, but hoping that I change my opinion after having ARH Longtubes installed w/ their catted x-pipe.
Thought I would give another opinion since not many people have these cams.
-Jeff
Right now i'm disappointed in my CompCams, also running the Stage3 from Brenspeed. My last resort is this christmas getting my headers installed with highflow cats. Both MusicCity and gibson have headers but i'm hoping that will fix my problem. When I put the pedal down right now there is now difference from when I didn't have them installed except a very minor difference at higher RPM's.
At this current point I wish I would have just gotten a blower, but hoping that I change my opinion after having ARH Longtubes installed w/ their catted x-pipe.
Thought I would give another opinion since not many people have these cams.
-Jeff
Cams will have a huge impact on a turbo car. It all depends on the grind. They can hurt just as much as they can help if the grind is not right.
You might want to do some reading up on cam grinds..
12-13-2006, 06:25 PM
#22
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,544
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
Cams can definatley help on a turboed car. However, I don't really see the point on these cars. All the turbo setups for the S197 that I've seen will make more than enough boost to blow the engine, if you were to turn them up that high. Even the smaller turbos being sold for our cars can push 600 HP or more. So if you already have a turbo or a SC, why bother with cams? Your turbo or SC already holds the key to making more power. Just up the boost a bit....much cheaper than buying a set of cams and having them installed.
Personally I would only consider cams for a FI engine if you had a fully built shortblock and you were trying to really push the limits of HP.
Nothsa, I think what's happening in your case is clear. You have the cams, but you don't have the supporting mods like the headers or the larger intake. I don't want to sound like an ***, but what did you expect, adding cams without doing headers first? Remember in Brenspeed's article that they only got 18 HP when they first installed the cams, and that was on a car that already had a CAI and longtubes.
They only got to 38 HP after they added a larger throttle body and the C&L Racer CAI with the 90mm MAF. Those two mods (plus the headers which they already had) were the key to unlocking the real power from the cams.
In my opinion, the proper cam install requires headers, a big-bore CAI, and a larger throttle body to be installed either before or alongside the cams. And then, you need a good dyno tune.
Personally I would only consider cams for a FI engine if you had a fully built shortblock and you were trying to really push the limits of HP.
Nothsa, I think what's happening in your case is clear. You have the cams, but you don't have the supporting mods like the headers or the larger intake. I don't want to sound like an ***, but what did you expect, adding cams without doing headers first? Remember in Brenspeed's article that they only got 18 HP when they first installed the cams, and that was on a car that already had a CAI and longtubes.
They only got to 38 HP after they added a larger throttle body and the C&L Racer CAI with the 90mm MAF. Those two mods (plus the headers which they already had) were the key to unlocking the real power from the cams.
In my opinion, the proper cam install requires headers, a big-bore CAI, and a larger throttle body to be installed either before or alongside the cams. And then, you need a good dyno tune.
12-13-2006, 06:33 PM
#23
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 853
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
I would stay as far away as I can from an Aftermarket TB at this point. Way to many issues with them.
I did hear that the gt500 TB is the same as the v10 truck engine and can be had on the cheap. It olts right up and is larger then our stock units.
I'm waiting to hear back from someone who has ordered one on it. But if it is a simple bolt in and plug in the wires then I would consider it.
The issue with the aftermarket units is that you have to rip out your stock units electronics and put them in the new one. This had led to many problems.
I don't know anout needing a larger maf over the JLT but I would say LT headers will be the real key.
I did hear that the gt500 TB is the same as the v10 truck engine and can be had on the cheap. It olts right up and is larger then our stock units.
I'm waiting to hear back from someone who has ordered one on it. But if it is a simple bolt in and plug in the wires then I would consider it.
The issue with the aftermarket units is that you have to rip out your stock units electronics and put them in the new one. This had led to many problems.
I don't know anout needing a larger maf over the JLT but I would say LT headers will be the real key.
12-13-2006, 06:42 PM
#24
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Longwood, FL
Posts: 2,899
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
First off all Brenspeed is the one that said it didn't matter and that I would still have a noticable gain. I doubt my JLT CAI is that much smaller than a C&L in diameter to make a difference which is 2mm... We will find out once I add the headers and find out the truth of it sometime in mid January when I add my CMCV deletes and UDPs. I'm not going to switch my intake because of maybe a few millimeters of a difference in the JLT to C&L CAI which would not result in ANY noticable power loss IMHO.
From what you're saying I should under rule the theory of going 1 5/8" headers and go with 1 3/4" since you are saying my car isn't breathing well enough. Either way i'm going 1 5/8" ARH headers, any other info that you would like to add go right ahead i'm not flaming any opinions but really don't want to hear that my JLT CAI isn't going to provide enough air flow when it's 2mm of a difference.
-Jeff
From what you're saying I should under rule the theory of going 1 5/8" headers and go with 1 3/4" since you are saying my car isn't breathing well enough. Either way i'm going 1 5/8" ARH headers, any other info that you would like to add go right ahead i'm not flaming any opinions but really don't want to hear that my JLT CAI isn't going to provide enough air flow when it's 2mm of a difference.
-Jeff
12-13-2006, 06:56 PM
#25
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 853
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
I think I have a 95mm C&L on my CAI.. So if I'm free when you are going to VMP for the Tune I could swing by for your tune and Settle the issue for sure... It would take 10 minutes for me to pull the CAi and put it on yours to see if there is any diffrence. Justin should already have the tables for the C&L Maf so it should be a simple test.
1 & 5/8th headers are plenty for a N/A car.. You will probably have better numbers with the smaller pipe.
UDP's don't need to be installed for the Dyno. They don't change anything on the tune. The CMCV's and LTs should really wake the car up. And then I will really need to find some more mods as I will have to find a way to stay faster then you.
1 & 5/8th headers are plenty for a N/A car.. You will probably have better numbers with the smaller pipe.
UDP's don't need to be installed for the Dyno. They don't change anything on the tune. The CMCV's and LTs should really wake the car up. And then I will really need to find some more mods as I will have to find a way to stay faster then you.
12-13-2006, 07:02 PM
#26
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Longwood, FL
Posts: 2,899
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
I would hope to be faster than you... With my luck I don't know, i'm hoping to be in the 12's tomorrow but i'm sure you'll take me easily. Depending on VMP's pricing will depend on when I hit up the dyno, i'm running really tight on $$$ right now and just want to make the LT's and CMCV's possible before January.
I'll definately let you know when i'm going down there so we could find out if there's a difference.
-Jeff
I'll definately let you know when i'm going down there so we could find out if there's a difference.
-Jeff
12-13-2006, 07:58 PM
#27
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 340
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
ORIGINAL: nothsa
First off all Brenspeed is the one that said it didn't matter and that I would still have a noticable gain. I doubt my JLT CAI is that much smaller than a C&L in diameter to make a difference which is 2mm... We will find out once I add the headers and find out the truth of it sometime in mid January when I add my CMCV deletes and UDPs. I'm not going to switch my intake because of maybe a few millimeters of a difference in the JLT to C&L CAI which would not result in ANY noticable power loss IMHO.
From what you're saying I should under rule the theory of going 1 5/8" headers and go with 1 3/4" since you are saying my car isn't breathing well enough. Either way i'm going 1 5/8" ARH headers, any other info that you would like to add go right ahead i'm not flaming any opinions but really don't want to hear that my JLT CAI isn't going to provide enough air flow when it's 2mm of a difference.
-Jeff
First off all Brenspeed is the one that said it didn't matter and that I would still have a noticable gain. I doubt my JLT CAI is that much smaller than a C&L in diameter to make a difference which is 2mm... We will find out once I add the headers and find out the truth of it sometime in mid January when I add my CMCV deletes and UDPs. I'm not going to switch my intake because of maybe a few millimeters of a difference in the JLT to C&L CAI which would not result in ANY noticable power loss IMHO.
From what you're saying I should under rule the theory of going 1 5/8" headers and go with 1 3/4" since you are saying my car isn't breathing well enough. Either way i'm going 1 5/8" ARH headers, any other info that you would like to add go right ahead i'm not flaming any opinions but really don't want to hear that my JLT CAI isn't going to provide enough air flow when it's 2mm of a difference.
-Jeff
Every post I have read from you in this thread leaves me to the conclusion that you are talking out of your ****.
Cams will have a huge impact on a turbo car. It all depends on the grind. They can hurt just as much as they can help if the grind is not right.
Cams will have a huge impact on a turbo car. It all depends on the grind. They can hurt just as much as they can help if the grind is not right.
12-13-2006, 08:09 PM
#28
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,544
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
ORIGINAL: nothsa
First off all Brenspeed is the one that said it didn't matter and that I would still have a noticable gain. I doubt my JLT CAI is that much smaller than a C&L in diameter to make a difference which is 2mm... We will find out once I add the headers and find out the truth of it sometime in mid January when I add my CMCV deletes and UDPs. I'm not going to switch my intake because of maybe a few millimeters of a difference in the JLT to C&L CAI which would not result in ANY noticable power loss IMHO.
From what you're saying I should under rule the theory of going 1 5/8" headers and go with 1 3/4" since you are saying my car isn't breathing well enough. Either way i'm going 1 5/8" ARH headers, any other info that you would like to add go right ahead i'm not flaming any opinions but really don't want to hear that my JLT CAI isn't going to provide enough air flow when it's 2mm of a difference.
-Jeff
First off all Brenspeed is the one that said it didn't matter and that I would still have a noticable gain. I doubt my JLT CAI is that much smaller than a C&L in diameter to make a difference which is 2mm... We will find out once I add the headers and find out the truth of it sometime in mid January when I add my CMCV deletes and UDPs. I'm not going to switch my intake because of maybe a few millimeters of a difference in the JLT to C&L CAI which would not result in ANY noticable power loss IMHO.
From what you're saying I should under rule the theory of going 1 5/8" headers and go with 1 3/4" since you are saying my car isn't breathing well enough. Either way i'm going 1 5/8" ARH headers, any other info that you would like to add go right ahead i'm not flaming any opinions but really don't want to hear that my JLT CAI isn't going to provide enough air flow when it's 2mm of a difference.
-Jeff
It is not just a 2mm differece by the way. The JLT website says their standard CAI is 89mm. The C&L Racer that Brenspeed used is 95mm. That's a 6mm difference in diameter. Area wise, that's 7088 square mm (C&L racer) vs 6221 sq. mm. (JLT). That's about a 15% increase in area. It's well known that this doesn't really mean much on a stock engine. But with the cams, it apparently is worthwhile, at least according to Brenspeed's testing.
Personally I would go ahead and get the 1 3/4" headers. There's no advantage to the 1 5/8, and the 1 3/4 is advantageous with high-flow mods, like the cams or heads.
As for the throttle body, I too think they are a poor idea on N/A motors. However, emirically, they seem to be working well on motors with a lot of airflow mods, such as cams or heads. I know of three guys with cams and two guys with heads who are all running an oversized TB, and at least in their cases there have been no problems. Now again, I have no personal experience with the oversize TB in conjunction with cams/heads, but it seems like that they work fine based on these people's experiences. It may be that with the increased airflow demands of an engine with these mods, the oversized TB actually works right--whereas on a stockish engine, it's too large to properly function.
12-13-2006, 11:19 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 35
RE: Just got stage 3 comp cams!
The car is a daily driver, and I can tell you that I don't notice any difference in driveability with the high stall converter, I only feel the difference when i mash the gas pedal (feels like a shot of nitrous). I will tell you that the car is LOUD now, even at low speeds. My wife hates riding in it due to the cabin noise, but its music to my ears.