Frustrated. Code Thrown AGAIN. Help!
12-11-2010, 05:27 PM
#11
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
if you really want to start figuring out, you need a volt/ohm meter. Every COP has a primary and secondary resistance. If a coil is bad, one or both of these resistances can be out of spec.
You'll need to find a repair manual that has these specs or find the info online, then pull each COP and test them to see if they are in spec.
While you're testing each coil, pull the plug and see how each one looks. If one looks way different than the rest then that's most likely the coil or cylinder having the issue.
If you find a bad coil then you should replace it with an Ford coil or if you go aftermarket, replace them ALL with the aftermarket. If a new coil doesn't match closely enough to the specs of what the other 7 coils have it can fry the PCM.
When you got into the head for CPS (cam position sensory) was it removed from the head, just disconnected, or never touched? You can check into that but if it wasn't touched, it's not likely.
Here's a sticky on the subject.
https://mustangforums.com/forum/test...icky-test.html
You'll need to find a repair manual that has these specs or find the info online, then pull each COP and test them to see if they are in spec.
While you're testing each coil, pull the plug and see how each one looks. If one looks way different than the rest then that's most likely the coil or cylinder having the issue.
If you find a bad coil then you should replace it with an Ford coil or if you go aftermarket, replace them ALL with the aftermarket. If a new coil doesn't match closely enough to the specs of what the other 7 coils have it can fry the PCM.
When you got into the head for CPS (cam position sensory) was it removed from the head, just disconnected, or never touched? You can check into that but if it wasn't touched, it's not likely.
Here's a sticky on the subject.
https://mustangforums.com/forum/test...icky-test.html
Last edited by Derf00; 12-11-2010 at 05:30 PM.
12-11-2010, 05:28 PM
#12
The Paranoid One
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
12-11-2010, 05:32 PM
#13
The Paranoid One
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
if you really want to start figuring out, you need a volt/ohm meter. Every COP has a primary and secondary resistance. If a coil is bad, one or both of these resistances can be out of spec.
You'll need to find a repair manual that has these specs or find the info online, then pull each COP and test them to see if they are in spec.
While you're testing each coil, pull the plug and see how each one looks. If one looks way different than the rest then that's most likely the coil or cylinder having the issue.
If you find a bad coil then you should replace it with an Ford coil or if you go aftermarket, replace them ALL with the aftermarket. If a new coil doesn't match closely enough to the specs of what the other 7 coils have it can fry the PCM.
When you got into the head for CPS (cam position sensory) was it removed from the head, just disconnected, or never touched? You can check into that but if it wasn't touched, it's not likely.
You'll need to find a repair manual that has these specs or find the info online, then pull each COP and test them to see if they are in spec.
While you're testing each coil, pull the plug and see how each one looks. If one looks way different than the rest then that's most likely the coil or cylinder having the issue.
If you find a bad coil then you should replace it with an Ford coil or if you go aftermarket, replace them ALL with the aftermarket. If a new coil doesn't match closely enough to the specs of what the other 7 coils have it can fry the PCM.
When you got into the head for CPS (cam position sensory) was it removed from the head, just disconnected, or never touched? You can check into that but if it wasn't touched, it's not likely.
I had the cams installed at a shop.
I am going to have to take the car to the dealership to check everything because I have an injury that will not let me bend at all.
But from what you are saying... the dealership CAN test the COPs
with a volt/ohm meter?
That way I can ask them to both pull the plugs AND test the COPs for me?
I read that thread you linked it says:
st common trouble codes you may encounter with COP systems on OBD II equipped vehicles are P0300 series codes such as P0301, P0302, etc. that indicate a misfire in a particular cylinder. The important point to remember here is that a general misfire code (P0300) is probably not ignition related but is due to a vacuum leak or fuel delivery problem.
Like I said all BUT one time my code has been a P0300.
I can't see it being a vacuum leak. I have had this code thrown at me
numerous times and I have taken my CAI on and off more than once since then and I ALWAYS make SURE everything is clamped down tight.
Does this mean it is probably a fuel injector problem? Maybe a fuel filter problem?
If so... is there a way to test the injectors? If not... how much do injectors cost?
I mean I am just really confused on all of this.
I don't know if I should not be driving the car.... or drive it like always even if
the code keeps coming back every once in a while and just wait for something to go wrong
if it ever does.
But... that thread acts like I don't need to be checking the plugs or cops.
I'm getting more confused as this goes along.
Last edited by Blacksmoke; 12-11-2010 at 05:40 PM.
12-12-2010, 10:59 AM
#16
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
I've dealt with a intermitent misfire myself (wife's 06 v6 escape which uses the same COP core and identical fuel injectors to the GT S197) so I am pretty familiar with these systems. My wifes code would vary between a P0301 to a P0356 which is more specific to an actual coil or coil circuit.
After having exhausted everything I could do, from testing the resistance of the coils, to swapping coils, to cleaning the fuel injectors, to replacing the upper and lower intake gaskets, to getting a handheld scanner with LIVE data reading and logging and even going so far as to get a set of refurbished balanced fuel injectors and throwing them in, I had given up and finally took it to the dealer. I had spent nearly $600 and countless hours trying to figure it out myself.
The dealership is HIGHLY recommended. They do what's called a engine load balance test (they have a more specific name but the I can't remember it). It's similar to the older KOER tests you can perform on OBDI mustangs but with a built in translator. This test checks fuel, ignition, circuits, and other system sensors under various conditions to make sure everything is in spec. If there is a loose sensor wire, or a cylinder that is having problems or an imminent failure they will find it.
It turned out for my wife's Escape it was a bad coil wire. It was pinched and had some broken wires inside of it even thought the plastic sheathing was fine. They showed it to me after they had it all day on a Saturday.
Cost of the diagnosis $89, wire pigtail $40, Cost for labor $30. Total cost $160.... Problem solved. Never been an issue since (over 3 months now).
I could have saved myself a few weekends and the $difference.
I would not recommend throwing parts at it like I did. Do some simple checks like the volt/ohm meter and checking the plugs, also write down any codes you get to give to the dealer. It would be best to leave the code in the next time it comes up if you go to the dealer and not clear it that way the snapshot of what the engine was doing when it popped up is there.
I am all for doing it yourself but I wasted a lot of time and money on something I most likely would not have figured out myself.
After having exhausted everything I could do, from testing the resistance of the coils, to swapping coils, to cleaning the fuel injectors, to replacing the upper and lower intake gaskets, to getting a handheld scanner with LIVE data reading and logging and even going so far as to get a set of refurbished balanced fuel injectors and throwing them in, I had given up and finally took it to the dealer. I had spent nearly $600 and countless hours trying to figure it out myself.
The dealership is HIGHLY recommended. They do what's called a engine load balance test (they have a more specific name but the I can't remember it). It's similar to the older KOER tests you can perform on OBDI mustangs but with a built in translator. This test checks fuel, ignition, circuits, and other system sensors under various conditions to make sure everything is in spec. If there is a loose sensor wire, or a cylinder that is having problems or an imminent failure they will find it.
It turned out for my wife's Escape it was a bad coil wire. It was pinched and had some broken wires inside of it even thought the plastic sheathing was fine. They showed it to me after they had it all day on a Saturday.
Cost of the diagnosis $89, wire pigtail $40, Cost for labor $30. Total cost $160.... Problem solved. Never been an issue since (over 3 months now).
I could have saved myself a few weekends and the $difference.
I would not recommend throwing parts at it like I did. Do some simple checks like the volt/ohm meter and checking the plugs, also write down any codes you get to give to the dealer. It would be best to leave the code in the next time it comes up if you go to the dealer and not clear it that way the snapshot of what the engine was doing when it popped up is there.
I am all for doing it yourself but I wasted a lot of time and money on something I most likely would not have figured out myself.
12-12-2010, 12:46 PM
#17
ALLDATA
P0300: The random misfire DTC indicates multiple cylinders are misfiring or the PCM can not identify which cylinder is misfiring.
Possible causes:
• Camshaft position sensor
• Low fuel (less then 1/8 tank)
• Stuck open EGR valve
• Blocked EGR passage
Diagnostic aids: One or more EGR passages may be blocked or partially blocked. If this is the case the misfire detection monitor indicates the EGR port to check for possible blockage.
P0300: The random misfire DTC indicates multiple cylinders are misfiring or the PCM can not identify which cylinder is misfiring.
Possible causes:
• Camshaft position sensor
• Low fuel (less then 1/8 tank)
• Stuck open EGR valve
• Blocked EGR passage
Diagnostic aids: One or more EGR passages may be blocked or partially blocked. If this is the case the misfire detection monitor indicates the EGR port to check for possible blockage.
12-12-2010, 04:10 PM
#18
The Paranoid One
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
ALLDATA
P0300: The random misfire DTC indicates multiple cylinders are misfiring or the PCM can not identify which cylinder is misfiring.
Possible causes:
• Camshaft position sensor
• Low fuel (less then 1/8 tank)
• Stuck open EGR valve
• Blocked EGR passage
Diagnostic aids: One or more EGR passages may be blocked or partially blocked. If this is the case the misfire detection monitor indicates the EGR port to check for possible blockage.
P0300: The random misfire DTC indicates multiple cylinders are misfiring or the PCM can not identify which cylinder is misfiring.
Possible causes:
• Camshaft position sensor
• Low fuel (less then 1/8 tank)
• Stuck open EGR valve
• Blocked EGR passage
Diagnostic aids: One or more EGR passages may be blocked or partially blocked. If this is the case the misfire detection monitor indicates the EGR port to check for possible blockage.
Also... what do you mean the misfire detection monitor?
WTF is that? I am not getting ANY other code except for the P0300
nothing about an EGR port is there.
12-12-2010, 11:55 PM
#19
Most codes are universal, diagnostic causes can apply to a car that has/has not EGR they even apply to other manufacturers so a P0300 can be misfire in a GM or a Subaru for example. I posted a guideline on what it can be, the point is to properly repair/trouble shoot your car is that it needs to be diagnosed, pulling a code is not the answer. If you have a friend or know somebody with a real scanner (not Autozone bull**** code readers) you need to hook it up and follow proper procedures for chasing down the problem.
12-13-2010, 09:22 PM
#20
The Paranoid One
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
Hrm. Welp they are gonna do some testing tomorrow.
Hopefully it will replicate itself.
Also I just thought of something. May be stupid I dunno.
Almost every time this has happened it has been right after I have got gas and my tank was VERY low. Last time I thought it was bad gas.
But I switched stations.
This time I put 20 bucks in after it was at 35mi till empty.
Drove the car home... let it sit... couple of hours later I went to start it and that code showed up.
Coincidence?
I have both read and heard random misfires can be due to fuel delivery problems too.
Hopefully it will replicate itself.
Also I just thought of something. May be stupid I dunno.
Almost every time this has happened it has been right after I have got gas and my tank was VERY low. Last time I thought it was bad gas.
But I switched stations.
This time I put 20 bucks in after it was at 35mi till empty.
Drove the car home... let it sit... couple of hours later I went to start it and that code showed up.
Coincidence?
I have both read and heard random misfires can be due to fuel delivery problems too.