OK, I'm a moron. Now what? Ran with no oil
Ouch!
12-12-2010, 02:46 PM
#22
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ......
Posts: 2,057
12-12-2010, 03:11 PM
#23
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: michigan
Posts: 14
Thanks for the suggestions and comments.
OK, so I had a mechanic friend over to look at my other car (twin turbo RX7 that I rebuilt) and do a compression test. Got a bad apex seal on the rear rotor - that engine's coming out (again!).
Afterwards I had him look at the Mustang. He wrenches on Japanese cars, so isn't familiar with the V8s. However, we poked around with a stethoscope.
The car idles fine, with only a slight, intermittent sound like a bad pulley bearing. it appears to be coming from the driver side, up around the heads at the front of the engine. Not sure if it's a pulley or in the valve system - will pull off the serpentine and idle it for a few seconds to see if the noise goes away.
After a few minutes there's a distinct sound coming from the valvetrain. Somethings definitely broken in there - maybe the valves are damaged, or perhaps bearings.
There was no idiot light when I originally started the car, or when it started making the bad noises. However, when I started it this morning it was throwing codes:
Fault code: P0345 Camshaft position sensor A - Bank 2 Circuit Malfunction
Pending code: P0190 Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction
Pending code: P0340 Camshaft position sensor A - Bank 1 Circuit Malfunction
I cleared the codes and ran the car for a few minutes - none of them came back.
Makes me wonder if I ground up camshaft bearings, throwing them out, which caused the engine computer to sense a misalignment and throw the code. Since the cams were misaligned, they caused valve damage. This would explain the valve noise and bearing noise. Of course, there are a bunch of other things that it could be ...
Wish me luck!
OK, so I had a mechanic friend over to look at my other car (twin turbo RX7 that I rebuilt) and do a compression test. Got a bad apex seal on the rear rotor - that engine's coming out (again!).
Afterwards I had him look at the Mustang. He wrenches on Japanese cars, so isn't familiar with the V8s. However, we poked around with a stethoscope.
The car idles fine, with only a slight, intermittent sound like a bad pulley bearing. it appears to be coming from the driver side, up around the heads at the front of the engine. Not sure if it's a pulley or in the valve system - will pull off the serpentine and idle it for a few seconds to see if the noise goes away.
After a few minutes there's a distinct sound coming from the valvetrain. Somethings definitely broken in there - maybe the valves are damaged, or perhaps bearings.
There was no idiot light when I originally started the car, or when it started making the bad noises. However, when I started it this morning it was throwing codes:
Fault code: P0345 Camshaft position sensor A - Bank 2 Circuit Malfunction
Pending code: P0190 Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction
Pending code: P0340 Camshaft position sensor A - Bank 1 Circuit Malfunction
I cleared the codes and ran the car for a few minutes - none of them came back.
Makes me wonder if I ground up camshaft bearings, throwing them out, which caused the engine computer to sense a misalignment and throw the code. Since the cams were misaligned, they caused valve damage. This would explain the valve noise and bearing noise. Of course, there are a bunch of other things that it could be ...
Wish me luck!
okay im going to add my 2 cents. i work at Chesterfield engines and my main job includes tearing down motors to be cleaned re-machined and dropped back into cars. very nasty and dirty job :P i much prefer my shade tree mechanic job
the codes the car is throwing is almost certainly a crank bearing, i would suggest drop the oil pan with the motor still in the car and take a peak in there, look for the metal shavings scoring and what not, you may have to drop the oil pump no big deal. this will tell you if its the crank, which in all honesty is 9 times out of ten the problem with low oil.
if this is the case your not out to much money, just a lot of time. pull the motor out and then drop the crank, have the crank polished and set the seals/bearings in your self. should take a few days but definitely cheaper solution to a new engine. most of the time if you catch it early enough the block it self is fine. sounds like you snagged it early.
i wouldn't worry about piston rings. just the seals. i would definitely get the vales reseated.
12-12-2010, 03:26 PM
#24
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
Your engine is toasted... Sorry.
It will only get worse from here.
Every component/part that needs oil to function has had its life so dramatically shortened, it's not even funny.
It's on burrowed time.
DO NOT SPEND A DIME ON THIS MOTOR!! It's will be a money pit at best.
Since those 3V are now plentiful, the cheapest fix it seems, would be to swap your mill with one from a junk yard.
If you have extra cash to spare, then the best would be to get a long block from FRPP or from some good after market builders like DSS, Coast High Performance or even Sean Hyland etc...
Best luck to you Sir.
It will only get worse from here.
Every component/part that needs oil to function has had its life so dramatically shortened, it's not even funny.
It's on burrowed time.
DO NOT SPEND A DIME ON THIS MOTOR!! It's will be a money pit at best.
Since those 3V are now plentiful, the cheapest fix it seems, would be to swap your mill with one from a junk yard.
If you have extra cash to spare, then the best would be to get a long block from FRPP or from some good after market builders like DSS, Coast High Performance or even Sean Hyland etc...
Best luck to you Sir.
12-12-2010, 07:57 PM
#26
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: IN
Posts: 2,248
That totally blows. I would be so pissed at myself. Best of luck to ya. I hope u get it going again. I forget who posted about the lawn mower but thats good stuff to know. I had no idea it did not come with oil.
12-13-2010, 10:31 PM
#28
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California
Posts: 35
Think I've got a plan
Got some advice today from a guy who runs a mod Ford speed shop, and my buddy who is Ford's product development engineer for their 5.4L and 6.8L lines.
They both agree with several members here - at best I've dramatically shortened the life of the motor, and in all likelihood, it's toast. I can go in and change-up head parts, then find that the main bearing fails early, etc. Besides, if I tear down the heads, buy replacement parts and get everything re-clearanced, etc, I'm looking at quite a bit of change.
I can get a complete motor (without the intake manifold, which I don't need because the KB manifold replaces it anyway) with 20k miles on it for $1,900 and it comes with a 90day warranty. I think this makes the most sense. For perhaps a few hundred more in gaskets and fasteners (if the replacement motor appears to have leaky head gaskets or other leaks) I can get the car back on the road with 2-3 days of wrenching.
It's really tempting to buy a short block with forged internals, but then I'm into blueprinting everything. I'd probably go for a 5.4L or BBR302 which means a new tune, etc. Sure, another 100+hp would be nice, but 530 is enough to get me around town. Besides, a build like that will take me a couple of months and $5k+. And, I've got the RX7 motor to pull and break down, and to add to my troubles, my wife rear-ended somebody today and bent most of the body parts on the front of our truck.
Enough typing - I need to get back into the garage ...
They both agree with several members here - at best I've dramatically shortened the life of the motor, and in all likelihood, it's toast. I can go in and change-up head parts, then find that the main bearing fails early, etc. Besides, if I tear down the heads, buy replacement parts and get everything re-clearanced, etc, I'm looking at quite a bit of change.
I can get a complete motor (without the intake manifold, which I don't need because the KB manifold replaces it anyway) with 20k miles on it for $1,900 and it comes with a 90day warranty. I think this makes the most sense. For perhaps a few hundred more in gaskets and fasteners (if the replacement motor appears to have leaky head gaskets or other leaks) I can get the car back on the road with 2-3 days of wrenching.
It's really tempting to buy a short block with forged internals, but then I'm into blueprinting everything. I'd probably go for a 5.4L or BBR302 which means a new tune, etc. Sure, another 100+hp would be nice, but 530 is enough to get me around town. Besides, a build like that will take me a couple of months and $5k+. And, I've got the RX7 motor to pull and break down, and to add to my troubles, my wife rear-ended somebody today and bent most of the body parts on the front of our truck.
Enough typing - I need to get back into the garage ...
12-14-2010, 11:20 AM
#30
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,645
A noise coming from the front end of the motor can very hard to pinpoint. The timing cover opens up into the oil pan, so any, almost anywhere in the engine can present as coming from the front.
Keep in mind that the timing chain tensioners also rely on oil pressure to keep the chain from jumping.
I'd be inclined to at least pull the timing cover and make sure nothing has shifted or come off before running it any more. These are interference engines if I recall correctly.
Edit - Just read page 3. I agree that replacing the engine makes the most long term/peace of mind sense. If you do end up going the forged route, keep us posted. We love looking at pretty engine internals. There are many companies out there that offer well built forged and forged/stroked shortblocks.
Keep in mind that the timing chain tensioners also rely on oil pressure to keep the chain from jumping.
I'd be inclined to at least pull the timing cover and make sure nothing has shifted or come off before running it any more. These are interference engines if I recall correctly.
Edit - Just read page 3. I agree that replacing the engine makes the most long term/peace of mind sense. If you do end up going the forged route, keep us posted
. We love looking at pretty engine internals. There are many companies out there that offer well built forged and forged/stroked shortblocks.
Last edited by siggyfreud; 12-14-2010 at 11:24 AM.