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Dodge forums why all the hate on the 5.0

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Old 05-20-2011, 12:19 PM   #41
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what are your expereinced with Dodge guys and even chevy guys in general?


I am on my second viper, but not loyal to Dodge. Had the mustang since new in 06, but not loyal to Ford. Had several vettes, but not loyal to Chevrolet. I go to a viper forum quite a bit and turns out that the mustang is a very respected and popular car with Viper owners. Many have a stang as a more sensible/comfortable/ practical daily driver. The viper is none of these things.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:24 PM   #42
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Been on a couple of Challenger forums since i am at a cross roads and Im not sure wich one I like better. What I am noticing is most of the challenger guys constanly are say ing how there cars are better than mustangs in being faster and more unique on the road. What really shocked me though is all the 5.0 hate and straight ford hate that was being spewed. My verdidct is this even if i gotta a challenger RT I would still chill with the mustang crowd for the most part. That being said there are a handfull of guys on the challanger forum that are just car guys and are cool to hang around with. what are your expereinced with Dodge guys and even chevy guys in general?
I don't know anyone that owns the new Challenger. My brother owns a Chevy truck, Yukon and a '71 Nova. My mechanic owns a Chevy truck and a new Camaro.

The hate is cause they have no answers for the 5.0. In the new muscle car contest, Ford has won.
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:22 PM   #43
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The Challenger is the best looking car on the road. The 5.0 is just plain faster.

Domestic brand loyalty is for backwoods, redneck retards.
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:46 PM   #44
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Forum drama-battles are the very reason I keep away except for technical issues. Brand loyalty is a disaster waiting to happen. I like vehicles from many companies. My 2011 5.0 is a toy for me, the first new car I could own without it being a daily driver, but I would be just as happy with a new 4-door Jeep JK with 35" tires and a 6" lift.
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Old 05-21-2011, 04:23 AM   #45
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Are the 'Mopar guys' that are being referred to usually drive LX cars? Because if so, I think those 'guys' are similar to the guys that bought a Mustang after the S197 came out and might claim themselves as 'Mustang guys', yet their are oblivious to anything about a mustang prior to their generation & hold a 'nose in the sky' attitude towards owners of older mustangs....make sense?
Or perhaps the people who bought s197 and got into mustangs alot thought that the older mustangs were straight fugly and wanted something that reminded them of the true classics? Foxes are fast and all but god they look terrible. Ill take a 60s/early 70s or a s197 and thats about it (or a termi of course)

dodge is just jealous that the 5.0 kicks *** and doesnt way as much as a boat.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:01 AM   #46
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Please don't shoot me for saying this, but out of the pony cars of the big three today, the Challenger is the best looking one. Well, if the Challenger could be considered a pony car; it is more of a full-sized car.

I chose the Mustang over the Challenger and the Camaro because the 5.0L Coyote is multivalve and overhead cams. TiVCT to boot!
And to be honest, even if the 2011 and 2012 line-up still used the 4.6L, I would have chosen that over the pushrod Challenger and Camaro because the 4.6L is still OHC and 3valves per cylinder.

Dont get me wrong: pushrods are still awesome in some engines, but DOHC and variable independent cam phasing and multi-valves per cylinder hold so much more advantage. Direct valve actuation mean for higher RPM operation of the valvetrain, well, if the valve train is designed properly.
And the variable cam phasing for variable LSA smooth out the torque curve and allow you to get increases in low and high RPM. You are not forced to have to choose between a low RPM DD cam or a high RPM performance cam. Phasing the cams for variable LSA allows you get great breathing at low and high RPMs.
Variable LSA also improves fuel economy believe it or not. Look at the 5.0L Coyote; around 26MPG straight highway where the L99 of the Camaro has to rely on cylinder deactivation to match that. And the Coyote does not even deactivate any cylinders!

And DOHC allows for something that even domestic cars will one day have: variable valve lift! Some Beemers already have this and this further increases more power throughout the RPM bandwidth as well as further improves fuel economy as well.

Now, pushrods are awesome in some engines. All big blocks are pushrods, at least, I have yet to see and current big blocks that are production OHC. The only production non-pushrod engine I can think of is Ford's own 427 SOHC side-oiler.
I remember Chrysler made a prototype 426 Hemi DOHC, but they dropped the project when NASCAR banned the Hemi and Chrysler dropped out in protest. The 426 Hemi DOHC never even made it into any of their NASCAR race cars.
And lets face it: DOHC with variable timing and multivalves would do for big blocks that this technologies do now for small blocks. They will take a 400BHP rated big block and make that same engine push towards 1000BHP. Hell, DOHC and variable timing as well as better fuel injection and great head designs are making small blocks pump out power and even torque that outdo big blocks of the 60s and 70s.

Anyway, tying this back to why I chose Mustang over Camaro or Challenger, yes, I disdain pushrods when the OHC technologies of Mustangs allow my car to keep up with the pushrod Camaro and Challenger, even though the Mustang engine is significantly SMALLER than the engines in these other cars!
Granted, the Challenger is a damn beautiful car, but unfortunately, Chrysler has not put any valvetrain technology into it to unlock massive more amounts of power.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:51 AM   #47
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Or perhaps the people who bought s197 and got into mustangs alot thought that the older mustangs were straight fugly and wanted something that reminded them of the true classics? Foxes are fast and all but god they look terrible. Ill take a 60s/early 70s or a s197 and thats about it (or a termi of course)

dodge is just jealous that the 5.0 kicks *** and doesnt way as much as a boat.
My mom had a 90' Camaro and wrecked it, then she bought a 92' Gt Foxbody, I knew from that day on I wanted a Mustang. I remember the first ever S197 I saw on the road and I said to myself "I will own one in time."

Something else I have always thought about is the fact that the Mustang has always been there and never taken a leave of absence from the market. If the GTO, Challanger, Camaro, Firebird, Trans AM, and Charger were all so great they wouldn't have these long gaps of time when they were not being produced.

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Old 05-21-2011, 10:04 AM   #48
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Speaking of Dodge and Chrysler products, by far, the most beautiful muscle car for me is the '71-74 Chargers, the next for me would be the 68-70 Chargers (the General Lee!)

I criticize Chrysler for destroying the Charger name by renaming a Chrysler 300 into a Charger and putting the Dodge cross grill on the 300.

When I heard the Charger was being revived, I so hoped that they would bring back the coke bottle style of the Charger of the late 60s early 70s. If they would have done this, I would have bought one of these. The 68-70 and 71-74 Chargers were my first dream muscle car. Of course, a very close second were the original 60s 'Stangs and the Mach I of the 70s.

But they took an ugly Chrysler 300 are crushed my dreams. And this was another reason why I wound up buying Mustang instead of Dodge.
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:14 AM   #49
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Or perhaps the people who bought s197 and got into mustangs alot thought that the older mustangs were straight fugly and wanted something that reminded them of the true classics? Foxes are fast and all but god they look terrible. Ill take a 60s/early 70s or a s197 and thats about it (or a termi of course)

dodge is just jealous that the 5.0 kicks *** and doesnt way as much as a boat.
That wasn't quite what I was saying. I meant the people who bought the new 'retro' cars and thought because they owned one they were "Mustang/Mopar" guys when they really weren't because they were clueless to the past models.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:29 AM   #50
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I love the mustang and I am leanin more towards getting one of those than the challanger.I used to think the subaru STI was dollar for dollar the best performance value. Now that the 2011s were out (and the STI price is expensive now)the mustang GT is the best performance value there is)that being said I personally if I wanted mopar it would have had to be the clasic plymouth baracuda with a 440 six pack but thats for another thread and another day.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:14 PM   #51
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Interesting thread.... I am older, but never been brand loyal. Owned a '79 Mustang, than bought a '84 Dodge Daytona, '91 Mits Galant, '97 Acura CL, '02 BMW 3 Series and a '99 Accord Coupe. I go with whatever car fits my fancy or wallet at the time. Now we own my '06 330 coupe BMW, the Mustang GT and my wife's new 2011 Honda CRV, she used to have a BMW X-3. We spread our $$ around! lol
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:31 PM   #52
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I really like the looks of the Challenger, but it is a really big car for a coupe. Myself and my family are probably the epitome of brand loyalty, My grandfather was a small town Ford Lincoln Mercury Dealer in Mississippi, so its pretty much all I know.

To my knowledge we have owned a 1955 F-100, 1970 F-100, an untold # of Lincoln Towncars 9not really Ford but in the same family), 3 Tempo's, a LN-7, 1989 F-150 w/ 2 gas tanks (good ole days), a 1995 Ranger, one Fox Body Mustang (pretty sure it wasn't a 5.0 but too young to remember), and 1993 Grand Marquis (not really ford but in the same family), a 2000 Grand Marquis (see previos Grand Marquis comment), a 2002 Mountaineer, a 2009 Explorer, 2005 Mustang GT(Mine), and a 2009 V6 Mustang Convertable (My Sister's), and a 1998 Taurus.

Not saying that Ford is the undisputed champion of the World, just saying brand loyalty is alive. I'll probably buy another Ford the next time I buy a car, but does it really look like I have a choice?
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:33 PM   #53
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Adj sounds like you'll be exiled if you look elsewhere lol... Personally i'm looking to trade my Durango in on a new mustang soon.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:02 PM   #54
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Echo,

Don't get me wrong, I love Fords, and you could probably call me a fanboy, but I can also see the shortcomings in their corporation. I have a car that for a time made the legendary popping sound while turning, has gone through 2 alternators, a battery cable, a throttle body and TWO Ford Throttle Position Sensors, had the E-brake handle cable break, and the rear cables freeze and it still doesn't fuel up right. All in all though there's no substitution for the ground pounding pavement rippling power that comes out of those rear wheels. I love it!
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:19 PM   #55
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Echo,

Don't get me wrong, I love Fords, and you could probably call me a fanboy, but I can also see the shortcomings in their corporation. I have a car that for a time made the legendary popping sound while turning, has gone through 2 alternators, a battery cable, a throttle body and TWO Ford Throttle Position Sensors, had the E-brake handle cable break, and the rear cables freeze and it still doesn't fuel up right. All in all though there's no substitution for the ground pounding pavement rippling power that comes out of those rear wheels. I love it!
Damn sounds like you've had a hell of a time with that car, But I can see your point about loving the power that comes with it, Hopefully you don't have to replace any more alternators.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:49 PM   #56
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Shouldn't have to. I decided to get the PA Performance Alt. Comes with a lifetime warranty, and its brand new. Its a live and learn situation. I won't buy a first year total redesign again. Ideally I could have waited until 2008, but then Mettalic Grey wouldn't have been available. My car was built in Jan 2005, so it was one of the originals, and its going to have all the kinks and issues with the 1st gen rebuild. I love it though and wouldn't trade it!

If your thinking about buying, get one of the later models 2007-2009, or the 10 if you like the new body style. Don't know much about the '11s and 12's though.
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:11 PM   #57
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This is my first post, btw. I don't currently own a Mustang, but I'm in the market and if I buy one it will be my 3rd one, after a '96 GT and a '99 Cobra. I test-drove a couple of Challengers about two months ago. I really like the look of that car, it's just perfect to my eye. I first drove an '08 SRT8 that had about 8k miles on it. I was completely underwhelmed. It just didn't push me back in the seat like it should have. I mean come on, this is 425 hp and should be a torque monster. I jumped on it in 2nd gear and approached redline and the salesman was all, "THAT IS AWESOME!", lol. When we got back to the lot I suggested that maybe it wasn't running well because it was NOT fast. My Cobra felt faster to my butt dyno. Then I drove a brand new '11 RT (376 hp, 410 lb/ft) and it was the same damn thing. I guess they are just too heavy? I was really bummed.

I drove a new '12 GT about two weeks ago and was really happy with it. If I can satisfactorily dispose of my '10 Genesis Coupe 3.8 GT I am going to order a new '12 GT. But the Challenger - looks GREAT, but sadly, no go.

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Old 05-25-2011, 08:16 PM   #58
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This is my first post, btw. I don't currently own a Mustang, but I'm in the market and if I buy one it will be my 3rd one, after a '96 GT and a '99 Cobra. I test-drove a couple of Challengers about two months ago. I really like the look of that car, it's just perfect to my eye. I first drove an '08 SRT8 that had about 8k miles on it. I was completely underwhelmed. It just didn't push me back in the seat like it should have. I mean come on, this is 425 hp and should be a torque monster. I jumped on it in 2nd gear and approached redline and the salesman was all, "THAT IS AWESOME!", lol. When we got back to the lot I suggested that maybe it wasn't running well because it was NOT fast. My Cobra felt faster to my butt dyno. Then I drove a brand new '11 RT (376 hp, 410 lb/ft) and it was the same damn thing. I guess they are just too heavy? I was really bummed.

I drove a new '12 GT about two weeks ago and was really happy with it. If I can satisfactorily dispose of my '10 Genesis Coupe 3.8 GT I am going to order a new '12 GT. But the Challenger - looks GREAT, but sadly, no go.

Pat.
I feel the exact same way, the New Challenger could make 500hp it wouldn't matter it's too heavy coming in at 4,300 pound curb weight. Wow what a fatty that makes my 3,450 feel like it's on a strict diet.

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Old 05-25-2011, 08:30 PM   #59
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Been on a couple of Challenger forums since i am at a cross roads and Im not sure wich one I like better. What I am noticing is most of the challenger guys constanly are say ing how there cars are better than mustangs in being faster and more unique on the road. What really shocked me though is all the 5.0 hate and straight ford hate that was being spewed. My verdidct is this even if i gotta a challenger RT I would still chill with the mustang crowd for the most part. That being said there are a handfull of guys on the challanger forum that are just car guys and are cool to hang around with. what are your expereinced with Dodge guys and even chevy guys in general?
Let me suggest looking on a few more Challenger/Charger fora just to get a wider range of viewpoints. Each forum tends to develop its own 'character', and the level of "fanboi-ism" is part of that. Kind of like how no two clubs are quite the same. But I don't think that's the real problem.

Back in the day you stood around in the parking lot, or at the hamburger joint/pool hall/ice cream stand, and cruised up and down the local main street and bantered back and forth with your buddies. Face to face, where you had the advantage of seeing body language, hearing the tone of voice, and knowing that most remarks weren't all that seriously intended. You knew everybody. This is where the internet gets in the way, because those clues are all gone and you're posting at unseen and mostly unknown entities, and that horrible newfangled tendency to use text-message shortcuts only makes matters worse.


At least within my experience, brand loyalty was more my Dad's generation than mine. He's 90 and has with only one exception driven Dodges since 1958. Still drives a Neon; it's all he needs or wants anymore. My uncles were GM, couple of my friends' Dads always had Fords.

I've always been "me-loyal" rather than brand-loyal. Let me explain - every new car that we've ever bought has had to pass this one question "Will I/we still want this car well enough six months or a year past the time the final payment goes out in the mail to WANT to keep it?" IOW, the car, whatever it is, has to be "fun enough". Guys like Nuke, Jim, and pascal already know what one of my absolute "deal-breakers" is (and for those who might not, my sig provides a pretty clear hint). On more occasions than not, the "me-loyalty" has had us looking from the get-go at makes other than anything bought previously. Last time around, it was Honda and Subaru for her new ride.

Being loyal to none cuts both ways. Just as every car gets viewed as potentially having advantages or some particular things done "best", no matter who makes it, nothing is immune to criticism, at least not if I can put a halfway decent explanation to it.


There is this one other thing that probably makes the Mustang the car to get compared against, and that's because the S197 got the drop on the other guys again, just like the original did back in the 60's.


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Old 05-26-2011, 12:27 PM   #60
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Back in the day you stood around in the parking lot, or at the hamburger joint/pool hall/ice cream stand, and cruised up and down the local main street and bantered back and forth with your buddies. Face to face, where you had the advantage of seeing body language, hearing the tone of voice, and knowing that most remarks weren't all that seriously intended. You knew everybody. This is where the internet gets in the way, because those clues are all gone and you're posting at unseen and mostly unknown entities, and that horrible newfangled tendency to use text-message shortcuts only makes matters worse.


Great point and well spoken Norm. And we really only have to look back about 10 years or so as this is when the internet really blew up. I graduated high school in '91, so I grew up around cars without an internet. The internet brought us some good resources (these forums for advice among other things, tech articles, online purchasing, etc) However, the internet also brought out the worst in many people (trolling, my c#ck is bigger than yours mentality, etc). It's about accountability and the internet makes it easy for many people to shirk accountability for what they say.

I'm a Mopar guy. In the past, I've owned a '71 Challenger, 73' Dodge Dart Sport, '77 Dodge Van. I currently own two Dusters and a '95 Dakota. The Mustang is my daily driver and replaced my Infiniti of 10 years.

I used to be in that brand loyalty crowd...until Dodge priced themselves out of it. There are 3 things I look for in a sports/muscle car, power, weight and price. The Challenger hits on the first one, but fails to meet the last two. The Camaro hits 1, but is not nearly as strong as the Mustang on points 2 & 3. The Mustang nails this formula which is why I am shopping for a 2012 GT right now.

Would I like to have a Challenger? Absolutely, but I think they missed on the formula. In 60's Mopar was known for having good HP with competitive weight at a good price. Somewhere between the 70', 80's and 90's, they lost this edge. As I grow older, I start to look more into value than brand loyalty.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:27 PM
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