Spark plug question
08-24-2011, 02:25 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 31
Spark plug question
So I'm well aware of the spark plug issue, I'm sitting at 52k right now, and want to get them changed, my question is this, if I go to the dealer, and pay the 300 that they wanted to change them, if they mess up, are they liable? or will they sit there and try to charge me for them to fix the mistake? thanks.
08-24-2011, 02:53 PM
#2
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
Unfortunately some dealerships will say no. It depends on the dealership. You have a better chance if you are under warranty.
(even though under warranty it is notreally covered.)
BUT you can ask your dealership. Get their word on it though.
(even though under warranty it is notreally covered.)
BUT you can ask your dealership. Get their word on it though.
08-25-2011, 11:27 AM
#4
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 960
what Blackstang says is the vast majority of what you will find. Just because a spark plugs breaks, does not make it the fault of whoever does the work. The design is faulty from the get go. The technician already knows what hes getting into when doing spark plugs on these cars or F150's. They would much rather do a Mustang than Trucks, trust me. They dont want to dig out busted ones any more than you would. With that in mind, would you think it fair to make someone work for free for something they did not cause. Would you work for free? Just because they work at a Ford authorized service center, does not make them liable for what happens to your car. Accidental mishaps excluded. Most places will charge up to 1hr additional time per broken plug. A tech who has done it many times can have it out in less than 20 min.
Case in point: E V E R Y 97-03 F150 that we have done rear brakes on, has a common issue. When the rotor is removed for replacement or resurfacing, the emergency brake shoes literally fall off the backing plates due to moisture causing rust to push them off. This requires new ebrake shoes and additional time for installation. Is it a shops fault this happens? Absolutely not. But with the attitude some people get, they feel they shouldnt have to pay becuase "we took it off, and made it happen". That is bs.
Me being a shop owner, I must pay attention to customers. "read them", I guess. And get everything out on the table BEFORE work on a known problem job begins. Having a finger pointing blamer is NOT what I want to deal with. I have only turned away working on a handful of peoples cars due to their attitude, or the car just wasnt worth saving.
All I'm interested in, is making the correct repairs, first time around, at reasonable rates, and seeing them come back again when I am needed. The last part requires many other subtle perks (mostly psychological) to get, and keep, repeat customers.
In reading this back before clicking submit, I hope this doesnt come off oas arrogant, or mean. I am far from that type of person. Just want to show there is another side to this problem.
Case in point: E V E R Y 97-03 F150 that we have done rear brakes on, has a common issue. When the rotor is removed for replacement or resurfacing, the emergency brake shoes literally fall off the backing plates due to moisture causing rust to push them off. This requires new ebrake shoes and additional time for installation. Is it a shops fault this happens? Absolutely not. But with the attitude some people get, they feel they shouldnt have to pay becuase "we took it off, and made it happen". That is bs.
Me being a shop owner, I must pay attention to customers. "read them", I guess. And get everything out on the table BEFORE work on a known problem job begins. Having a finger pointing blamer is NOT what I want to deal with. I have only turned away working on a handful of peoples cars due to their attitude, or the car just wasnt worth saving.
All I'm interested in, is making the correct repairs, first time around, at reasonable rates, and seeing them come back again when I am needed. The last part requires many other subtle perks (mostly psychological) to get, and keep, repeat customers.
In reading this back before clicking submit, I hope this doesnt come off oas arrogant, or mean. I am far from that type of person. Just want to show there is another side to this problem.
08-26-2011, 12:12 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 31
what Blackstang says is the vast majority of what you will find. Just because a spark plugs breaks, does not make it the fault of whoever does the work. The design is faulty from the get go. The technician already knows what hes getting into when doing spark plugs on these cars or F150's. They would much rather do a Mustang than Trucks, trust me. They dont want to dig out busted ones any more than you would. With that in mind, would you think it fair to make someone work for free for something they did not cause. Would you work for free? Just because they work at a Ford authorized service center, does not make them liable for what happens to your car. Accidental mishaps excluded. Most places will charge up to 1hr additional time per broken plug. A tech who has done it many times can have it out in less than 20 min.
Case in point: E V E R Y 97-03 F150 that we have done rear brakes on, has a common issue. When the rotor is removed for replacement or resurfacing, the emergency brake shoes literally fall off the backing plates due to moisture causing rust to push them off. This requires new ebrake shoes and additional time for installation. Is it a shops fault this happens? Absolutely not. But with the attitude some people get, they feel they shouldnt have to pay becuase "we took it off, and made it happen". That is bs.
Me being a shop owner, I must pay attention to customers. "read them", I guess. And get everything out on the table BEFORE work on a known problem job begins. Having a finger pointing blamer is NOT what I want to deal with. I have only turned away working on a handful of peoples cars due to their attitude, or the car just wasnt worth saving.
All I'm interested in, is making the correct repairs, first time around, at reasonable rates, and seeing them come back again when I am needed. The last part requires many other subtle perks (mostly psychological) to get, and keep, repeat customers.
In reading this back before clicking submit, I hope this doesnt come off oas arrogant, or mean. I am far from that type of person. Just want to show there is another side to this problem.
Case in point: E V E R Y 97-03 F150 that we have done rear brakes on, has a common issue. When the rotor is removed for replacement or resurfacing, the emergency brake shoes literally fall off the backing plates due to moisture causing rust to push them off. This requires new ebrake shoes and additional time for installation. Is it a shops fault this happens? Absolutely not. But with the attitude some people get, they feel they shouldnt have to pay becuase "we took it off, and made it happen". That is bs.
Me being a shop owner, I must pay attention to customers. "read them", I guess. And get everything out on the table BEFORE work on a known problem job begins. Having a finger pointing blamer is NOT what I want to deal with. I have only turned away working on a handful of peoples cars due to their attitude, or the car just wasnt worth saving.
All I'm interested in, is making the correct repairs, first time around, at reasonable rates, and seeing them come back again when I am needed. The last part requires many other subtle perks (mostly psychological) to get, and keep, repeat customers.
In reading this back before clicking submit, I hope this doesnt come off oas arrogant, or mean. I am far from that type of person. Just want to show there is another side to this problem.
No but see I understand that, but at the same time, the service department should be paid regardless. I know it is not that way. I know it's not the individuals fault for the plugs breaking, and that it is a design flaw, but since it is in fact a FORD design flaw, FORD should have to foot the bill when something goes so badly wrong as to in turn force the consumer to pay up to twice as much for a simple spark plug install. For instance, if I went to my regular shop, I wouldnt expect them to pay if they started changing the plugs and this happened, but being a Ford service department, and being a known problem, I was hoping for a certain amount of liability and responsibility on Fords part, it's their product, so it's their fault, not the service technician, and not mine, yet we are both the ones who have to deal with it. But you know, that's not the way the world works. just wishful thinking. and me wanting to know if I was going to get shafted by them.
08-27-2011, 03:04 PM
#7
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 960
No but see I understand that, but at the same time, the service department should be paid regardless. I know it is not that way. I know it's not the individuals fault for the plugs breaking, and that it is a design flaw, but since it is in fact a FORD design flaw, FORD should have to foot the bill when something goes so badly wrong as to in turn force the consumer to pay up to twice as much for a simple spark plug install. For instance, if I went to my regular shop, I wouldnt expect them to pay if they started changing the plugs and this happened, but being a Ford service department, and being a known problem, I was hoping for a certain amount of liability and responsibility on Fords part, it's their product, so it's their fault, not the service technician, and not mine, yet we are both the ones who have to deal with it. But you know, that's not the way the world works. just wishful thinking. and me wanting to know if I was going to get shafted by them.
Your not getting shafted. Warranties are offered to cover manufacturing defects for certain periods of time. Since the spark plugs are "good" for 100,000mi according to Ford, there is no "defect". While in your car, they are still working as originally intended. If something like this were to be a forced repair under a warranty situation for an unlimited amount of mileage/time (which is kind of what is being insinuated), that also means that every product from every company would end up in the same situation. As well as every repair ever necessary. Higher prices for new products would result from having to pay someone for those repairs, as well as, eventually, better made products from the get-go. The corners would not be cut so easily in an effort to save money. I know thats extreme, but warranty coverage has to end at some point. Spark plugs are also considered to be a maintenance item. Like brake pads, filters, tires, etc. Which means, it's not covered when replacement is necessary.
Every car manufacturer has "defects" like these in some form. GM lower intake manifold gaskets turn into spagetti and leak, Ford Focus front springs rust and break, 02-07 Caravan rear coolant lines rust through at mount locations, 05-09 Mustang water leakage, Toyota 2.2l engine coolant passages are too small causing oil to sludge up due to excessive heat, exploding Pintos (threw in for lols),early Prius rear brakes rust solid due to lack of use caused by its own regenerative braking system, etc, etc.
Last edited by SCCAGT; 08-27-2011 at 03:55 PM.
08-27-2011, 05:48 PM
#8
No but see I understand that, but at the same time, the service department should be paid regardless. I know it is not that way. I know it's not the individuals fault for the plugs breaking, and that it is a design flaw, but since it is in fact a FORD design flaw, FORD should have to foot the bill when something goes so badly wrong as to in turn force the consumer to pay up to twice as much for a simple spark plug install. For instance, if I went to my regular shop, I wouldnt expect them to pay if they started changing the plugs and this happened, but being a Ford service department, and being a known problem, I was hoping for a certain amount of liability and responsibility on Fords part, it's their product, so it's their fault, not the service technician, and not mine, yet we are both the ones who have to deal with it. But you know, that's not the way the world works. just wishful thinking. and me wanting to know if I was going to get shafted by them.
Ford needs to go ahead and foot the bill for each and every broken plug situation due to this design flaw.
Better yet, I wonder if it is possible to sue the CEO as an individual for F***ing up by approving inferior two piece plugs to be used? He is a rich bastard anyway and I bet he can pay for each instance of broken plug due to the design flaw.
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