You asked us for it, now you are going to get it, SOON from Steeda
12-09-2011, 03:44 PM
#21
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 630
Hi guys, this item is now available for pre-order from the website.
Order will ship around a week from today or less.
http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-f...rear-wing.html
Order will ship around a week from today or less.
http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-f...rear-wing.html
12-09-2011, 06:38 PM
#22
Anybody else see the irony of putting up a picture of a functional wing on a car at a drag strip? That might just be the least useful place of all time for a functional wing.
Anyway, the wing looks good, I can definitely see the curvature in it. Looks like it would be pretty good on the twisties.
Anyway, the wing looks good, I can definitely see the curvature in it. Looks like it would be pretty good on the twisties.
On a 1/4 mile or shorter strip? Not useful until you are at the end of the run where you are above 60MPH.
12-09-2011, 09:50 PM
#23
Hi guys, this item is now available for pre-order from the website.
Order will ship around a week from today or less.
http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-f...rear-wing.html
Order will ship around a week from today or less.
http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-f...rear-wing.html
like to see how well this performs and looking forward to the data.
12-12-2011, 09:13 AM
#24
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 630
Just curious, have you tested down force levels at various speeds? If so, can you publish the data? If there are enough data points I could do some extrapolation/interpolation and maybe get a nice curve fit on it. I'd definitely
like to see how well this performs and looking forward to the data.
like to see how well this performs and looking forward to the data.
The data we obtained from Ford for us is just not going to be released. We let the customers who use it speak for us.
We worked very hard to make the wing functional and the real world use of the wing is more valuable than what any piece of paper says about its function.
Theres a reason that Grand Am and Koni Challenge cars use our functional wings, Pro Racers trust them and know first hand the benefit they provide.
More often than not numbers get analysed on the forums into unrealistic, completely incorrect analysis of actual performance anyway. Its counterproductive. The results in the real world are all that really matters, and we have proven results on our functional wings in the real world for well over a decade now.
12-13-2011, 06:17 AM
#25
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,652
Our aerodynamic testing has been done in the past through Ford itself.
The data we obtained from Ford for us is just not going to be released. We let the customers who use it speak for us.
We worked very hard to make the wing functional and the real world use of the wing is more valuable than what any piece of paper says about its function.
Theres a reason that Grand Am and Koni Challenge cars use our functional wings, Pro Racers trust them and know first hand the benefit they provide.
More often than not numbers get analysed on the forums into unrealistic, completely incorrect analysis of actual performance anyway. Its counterproductive. The results in the real world are all that really matters, and we have proven results on our functional wings in the real world for well over a decade now.
The data we obtained from Ford for us is just not going to be released. We let the customers who use it speak for us.
We worked very hard to make the wing functional and the real world use of the wing is more valuable than what any piece of paper says about its function.
Theres a reason that Grand Am and Koni Challenge cars use our functional wings, Pro Racers trust them and know first hand the benefit they provide.
More often than not numbers get analysed on the forums into unrealistic, completely incorrect analysis of actual performance anyway. Its counterproductive. The results in the real world are all that really matters, and we have proven results on our functional wings in the real world for well over a decade now.
That being said...how bout given us who preorder a good deal...say, prepainted gratis? C'mon show us the love
I want her to look her best!
Last edited by wcgman; 12-13-2011 at 06:20 AM. Reason: forgot question
12-13-2011, 08:04 AM
#26
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 630
While I agree that the forums can tend to manipulate numbers because everyone here thinks they are an aerodynamic expert at this stuff, I disagree with your statement that real world results are the only thing that matters. Essentially, you are saying that either the scientific method is worthless or it makes your customers feel like you are hiding something from them because there's an issue. I would also say that of all the self labeled aerodynamic experts on here, there's probably one 0.01% that might actually be able to understand the test data and the implications...so I'd say open communication and sharing the data is your best policy and let the speculators speculate. As for me, I don't know crap about the test data and really dont care. IMO, I dont buy a spoiler based on performance...I buy it based on how it looks because I'm not approaching the 200mph mark on a regular basis on the highway.
That being said...how bout given us who preorder a good deal...say, prepainted gratis? C'mon show us the love I want her to look her best!
That being said...how bout given us who preorder a good deal...say, prepainted gratis? C'mon show us the love
I want her to look her best!The customer is your best salesman. While I do post often and people do pay attention to what I say, what I say does not matter as much as what the customers say. It's what my customers say and the results they get that ultimately matters. Real world end user results are the most important. The wing has an asthetic appeal to many people, but it also serves those who wants something that works, and our racers who have trusted using our designs for over a decade now back that up.
We actually technically started the functional wing trend back in the Fox body days with our Fox body hatchback rear wing around 22 years ago that we still sell today and surprisingly still sells quite well. So it is what we do.
While I can't do free, Anyone interested can PM me for a pre order/forum member special.
12-13-2011, 03:29 PM
#27
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,397
i like it, it's not tall like a ricer wing and when you are running fast at the track you can appreciate the downforce. Gus do you know if this will pair well with the boss 302 LS front splitter. That thing would look great in comp orange with the side wiglets and lip gloss black. the only bad thing is that on non LS Boss 302's you would have to drill from the looks of it, is that correct? Can you at least let slip what speed the wing becomes functional? my home track is more technical with top speeds only in the 120-125 range.
Last edited by ShaneM; 12-13-2011 at 03:32 PM.
12-14-2011, 09:04 PM
#28
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,652
The scientific method is not worthless, its what we use to validate the part, but it is worthless from an advertising standpoint. You dont see Boeing spewing out technical aerodynamic details of their airplanes to get people to fly the airlines that use them. That would be a dull and boring presentation to most people. Of the few that do understand it some will pick it apart into a bunch of useless drivel that most people wont want to read.
The customer is your best salesman. While I do post often and people do pay attention to what I say, what I say does not matter as much as what the customers say. It's what my customers say and the results they get that ultimately matters. Real world end user results are the most important. The wing has an asthetic appeal to many people, but it also serves those who wants something that works, and our racers who have trusted using our designs for over a decade now back that up.
We actually technically started the functional wing trend back in the Fox body days with our Fox body hatchback rear wing around 22 years ago that we still sell today and surprisingly still sells quite well. So it is what we do.
While I can't do free, Anyone interested can PM me for a pre order/forum member special.
The customer is your best salesman. While I do post often and people do pay attention to what I say, what I say does not matter as much as what the customers say. It's what my customers say and the results they get that ultimately matters. Real world end user results are the most important. The wing has an asthetic appeal to many people, but it also serves those who wants something that works, and our racers who have trusted using our designs for over a decade now back that up.
We actually technically started the functional wing trend back in the Fox body days with our Fox body hatchback rear wing around 22 years ago that we still sell today and surprisingly still sells quite well. So it is what we do.
While I can't do free, Anyone interested can PM me for a pre order/forum member special.
As far as this wing, I'd pass on any tech docs cuz I look for bling on my ride and go fast. It is a pretty sexy wing BTW.On a related note...wouldnt this look off the hook as brushed chrome or aluminum? That would be totally sweet.
12-16-2011, 11:21 AM
#29
I am by far not an aerodynamics expert, and I also admit that fluid dynamics in general is not my strong suit.
Gus does have a point when it comes to "spoilers" being misunderstood.
The very first problem is terminology.
For the vast majority, most will argue with me and say that what I about to explain is a mere matter of semantics. But I rebut and say that there is a significant difference, primarily due to functional purposes.
What is this so-called "trivial matter of semantics?"
This is the matter of the misuse of the word "spoiler."
We collectively call many aerodynamic devices "spoilers" and often times, incorrectly so.
There are spoilers and there are Wings.
A wing is an airfoil primarily designed to give downforce. Depending on the size of the wing and its location on the vehicle (specifically height for a rear mounted wing), you will get varying degrees of downforce.
Simple common sense aerodynamic principles apply here, and even a high school kid with high school physics education can deduce this (and yes, high school physics even require kids to learn Bernulli's principle of fluid flow and high and low pressures).
Example: trying to be as simple here as possible without convolution it with too many factors.
On an airplane, the larger the wing the more lift it can generate at lower air speeds, considering a fixed airfoil shape.
In that same though, a smaller wing will require the craft to mover at faster air speeds to create the same lift, again assuming the same proportional airfoil shape.
A wing on a car for downforce is simply a wing inverted upside down.
Imagine a top fuel funny car "spoiler." It is not a spoiler, it is a wing in the truest sense.
The wing mounted on the drag rail is high, well above the engine and cab, it is large, and at its trailing edge, it is curved up towards the sky considerably.
On airplanes, remember that during take-off and landings, the wing leading and trailing edges flaps deploy out and angle down towards the ground. This is to create more lift during the slower speeds of take-off and landings. To reduce drag and also to allow the craft to travel at faster speeds for better fuel efficiency and probably more importantly, to reduce destructive stresses on the airframe and wings, the leading and trailing edge flaps are withdrawn to alter the shape of the airfoils (wings in this case).
In straight-line drag racing, the wing has that same significant airfoil shape to try to create as much downforce as quickly as possible. The size and height above the rail allows it to create downforce quickly even at slow speeds, but is of course still as useless as a decorative scoop at the instant the light turns green off the line. But the rail does not have to get to very fast speeds for that wing to begin to work.
A thought: I wonder if variable angle wings are allowed in NHRA or other sanctioned drag racing bodes? A steeper angle wing of the line, but the wing begins to reduce its pitch into the wind to reduce drag but still provide a constant downforce rather than an exponential downforce that a fixed angle wing would.
Anyway, I digress.
Gus does have a point when it comes to "spoilers" being misunderstood.
The very first problem is terminology.
For the vast majority, most will argue with me and say that what I about to explain is a mere matter of semantics. But I rebut and say that there is a significant difference, primarily due to functional purposes.
What is this so-called "trivial matter of semantics?"
This is the matter of the misuse of the word "spoiler."
We collectively call many aerodynamic devices "spoilers" and often times, incorrectly so.
There are spoilers and there are Wings.
A wing is an airfoil primarily designed to give downforce. Depending on the size of the wing and its location on the vehicle (specifically height for a rear mounted wing), you will get varying degrees of downforce.
Simple common sense aerodynamic principles apply here, and even a high school kid with high school physics education can deduce this (and yes, high school physics even require kids to learn Bernulli's principle of fluid flow and high and low pressures).
Example: trying to be as simple here as possible without convolution it with too many factors.
On an airplane, the larger the wing the more lift it can generate at lower air speeds, considering a fixed airfoil shape.
In that same though, a smaller wing will require the craft to mover at faster air speeds to create the same lift, again assuming the same proportional airfoil shape.
A wing on a car for downforce is simply a wing inverted upside down.
Imagine a top fuel funny car "spoiler." It is not a spoiler, it is a wing in the truest sense.
The wing mounted on the drag rail is high, well above the engine and cab, it is large, and at its trailing edge, it is curved up towards the sky considerably.
On airplanes, remember that during take-off and landings, the wing leading and trailing edges flaps deploy out and angle down towards the ground. This is to create more lift during the slower speeds of take-off and landings. To reduce drag and also to allow the craft to travel at faster speeds for better fuel efficiency and probably more importantly, to reduce destructive stresses on the airframe and wings, the leading and trailing edge flaps are withdrawn to alter the shape of the airfoils (wings in this case).
In straight-line drag racing, the wing has that same significant airfoil shape to try to create as much downforce as quickly as possible. The size and height above the rail allows it to create downforce quickly even at slow speeds, but is of course still as useless as a decorative scoop at the instant the light turns green off the line. But the rail does not have to get to very fast speeds for that wing to begin to work.
A thought: I wonder if variable angle wings are allowed in NHRA or other sanctioned drag racing bodes? A steeper angle wing of the line, but the wing begins to reduce its pitch into the wind to reduce drag but still provide a constant downforce rather than an exponential downforce that a fixed angle wing would.
Anyway, I digress.
12-16-2011, 11:53 AM
#30
After all, Gus implied a bit in post #24 that the Grand Am and Koni Challenge tracks are where this product was designed for.
Based on this, if you know what speeds the cars regularly operate at on these tracks, this will give you an idea of what speeds this product is meant to provide down forces (if any, if it is intended to function as a wing also).
Though I bet it can probably be used for more similar tracks.
Don't get me wrong, it is a very nice looking piece, conservative even, but to me the vertical "stabilizer" pieces (best I can describe them) on the sides of this piece to me would draw the "rice" attention (i.e people around me would scoff or tempt me into a street race, get undue attention from cops etc.).
Oh, I forgot to mention in my last post:
Spoilers are different from wings in that their primary purpose is not to provide downforce. Spoilers on your street cars are designed form the factory to enhance aerodynamics of the car to increase fuel economy. They function to reduce drag. Spoilers are strategically placed on the vehicle to disrupt turbulence in undesirable places. They thus "Spoil" the unwanted fluid flow of air and redirects it to allow the car to cut through the air more smoothly, preferably like a razor (if our brick-like S197 bodies can ever do so).
The function of the rear spoiler is primarily to assist in reducing turbulence at the rear of the car.
The rear fascia, if designed right, can also actually function a little bit like a rear diffuser, and reduce turbulence in the area behind the rear wheels. And working in concert with the trunk lid spoiler, they could help in redirecting where whatever turbulence remains to where it would exist where the car's overall advantage aerodynamically.
Hybrid function: Don't get me wrong, it is possible for a spoiler to ALSO function as a wing. If put at the right height on the trunk lid (most likely not high above the roof of the cabin), and shaped correctly, you can have a spoiler-wing that does its function as both.
This brings me to my next thought: to really make your car superior aerodynamically than stock, you have to consider the whole car.
I am sure that Steeda considered the entire S197 body in designing their product.
You have to know what the laminar flow characteristics of the stock S197 is, such as where the turbulence nodes exist, etc, and from there design the product to manipulate the flow patterns and relocate the turbulence to the overall aerodynamic advantage of the car.