Auto Shipping Fail...big mistake. now what?
06-22-2012, 07:32 PM
#21
The "legal" threat letter is a good idea. If it doesn't work, you may want to sue in small claims court. You would need to find the small claims court that has proper jurisdiction. It would be worth a consult with a helpful attorney.
I don't know about about the state in question, but in Illinois the small claims court suit limit is $10,000. And NO attorneys!
You will need to document everything as completely as possible. It has been my experience that "he with the most evidence, wins". Get sworn affidavits from the dealership, including the mechanics. If they can swear to the possibility of a much shorter engine/clutch/drive train lifespan due to the damage due to the episode, you just might get the max limit of the court.
I have gone against attorneys in small claims court, I had wads & wads of documentation and the attorney had almost nothing & tried to BS his way through, I won. So can you.
Imagine the mods you could do for $10k!
I don't know about about the state in question, but in Illinois the small claims court suit limit is $10,000. And NO attorneys!
You will need to document everything as completely as possible. It has been my experience that "he with the most evidence, wins". Get sworn affidavits from the dealership, including the mechanics. If they can swear to the possibility of a much shorter engine/clutch/drive train lifespan due to the damage due to the episode, you just might get the max limit of the court.
I have gone against attorneys in small claims court, I had wads & wads of documentation and the attorney had almost nothing & tried to BS his way through, I won. So can you.
Imagine the mods you could do for $10k!
06-22-2012, 09:56 PM
#22
The real question is "what was your loss?". If it's only $2000, then that's all you'll get if you spend five times that on legal fees.
It's a no-win for you - you might win the case but you lose on dollars.
As for getting it from San Diego to Oregon, it'd be a great road trip - go for it!
It's a no-win for you - you might win the case but you lose on dollars.
As for getting it from San Diego to Oregon, it'd be a great road trip - go for it!
Also FYI, small claims court is basically built for the normal person who has never conducted themselves in court. Even better, IIRC, California does not allow ANY lawyers into the court but I don't know if they would be the proper state to file in. Just do a bit of research first. Seriously though, what do you really have to lose? Certainly no lawyer fees.
EDIT: I didn't see Old Mustanger's post before I wrote this one, but he has some great points as well. Definitely get as much info as possible.
Also, I'm really curious about something. How in the hell do you get an engine to start spinning backwards?
Last edited by PSUSkier; 06-22-2012 at 10:01 PM.
06-23-2012, 09:23 AM
#23
When you decide which jurisdiction you have to sue in, do some research. There are many circumstances where you can get double, triple or more in damages. There will be regulations on what they can and cannot do while your property is in their hands. They obviously did not protect your vehicle by storing it indoors. They also allowed morons to beat the crap out of your car.
Your damages are more than you think. How much is your time worth? How about the Dealers? Miles driven trying to find & rescue your car? The Dealers cost of flat bedding the car back. Your plane ticket. Driving the car back. Time off work. The list goes on & on. Document everything & the dollar amt will add up quickly.
There will be laws that the transportation company MUST follow. If they didn't follow them, they will owe you some kind of penalties over & above your actual damages. You will get your full $2000 in damages for EACH law they violated while your property was in their "care".
The judge will not tell you about these laws, you have to look them up.
I have won in small claims court before & I got triple damages because I did a little research. Back then I had to go to a library and go through the state law books, it only took me 4 hours to do all the research, but, today everything is online.
Your damages are more than you think. How much is your time worth? How about the Dealers? Miles driven trying to find & rescue your car? The Dealers cost of flat bedding the car back. Your plane ticket. Driving the car back. Time off work. The list goes on & on. Document everything & the dollar amt will add up quickly.
There will be laws that the transportation company MUST follow. If they didn't follow them, they will owe you some kind of penalties over & above your actual damages. You will get your full $2000 in damages for EACH law they violated while your property was in their "care".
The judge will not tell you about these laws, you have to look them up.
I have won in small claims court before & I got triple damages because I did a little research. Back then I had to go to a library and go through the state law books, it only took me 4 hours to do all the research, but, today everything is online.
06-23-2012, 09:50 AM
#24
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 52
Shipping is fine as long as the shipper has responsibility for product until it reaches its intended destination. This is called FOB Destination.
In the FOB destination scenario, the title transfers to the buyer when the goods reach the buyer's premises; at that point the seller recognizes a sale, and the buyer recognizes a purchase. The seller usually pays for transportation and insurance when the shipping terms are FOB destination …
With FOB destination, you do not take ownership until the product reaches you. If product is damaged, you can simply refuse to accept it. By taking transfer of the product from the shipper, you may have absolved them of any responsibility in the matter. That is all water under the bridge now.
Call a lawyer. It would be worth a consultation fee to see if you can get some of your money back. You are definitely within the boundary of a small claims action.
In the FOB destination scenario, the title transfers to the buyer when the goods reach the buyer's premises; at that point the seller recognizes a sale, and the buyer recognizes a purchase. The seller usually pays for transportation and insurance when the shipping terms are FOB destination …
With FOB destination, you do not take ownership until the product reaches you. If product is damaged, you can simply refuse to accept it. By taking transfer of the product from the shipper, you may have absolved them of any responsibility in the matter. That is all water under the bridge now.
Call a lawyer. It would be worth a consultation fee to see if you can get some of your money back. You are definitely within the boundary of a small claims action.
06-23-2012, 10:07 AM
#25
I understand your point about FOB shipping, but I think that this may be different because the OP had to pay the dealer for the car before it was shipped.
Did the OP or the dealer hire the shipping company? Would that make a difference?
Did the OP or the dealer hire the shipping company? Would that make a difference?
06-23-2012, 10:59 AM
#26
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 55
To answer the who hired the shipping company.. I did. I am believe the dealer could just have easily said "Geez, I am really sorry to hear about that!" and left it solely in my hands. I will be eternally grateful for his help.
Thanks again to all!!
06-23-2012, 07:37 PM
#28
Who hired the shipper? What were the shipping terms? Who chose the dealer and authorized the work?
Most contracts stipulate which state any type of legal process will take place. The person who draws up the contracts chooses the state they feel most comfortable to defend themselves in.
If the shipping company is liable, you may be able to sue in multiple states if they crossed state lines.
Nexus is tricky and complicated when multiple companies and the parties being located in multiple states.
Have an attorney from the state where the contract is binded to review it.
Most contracts stipulate which state any type of legal process will take place. The person who draws up the contracts chooses the state they feel most comfortable to defend themselves in.
If the shipping company is liable, you may be able to sue in multiple states if they crossed state lines.
Nexus is tricky and complicated when multiple companies and the parties being located in multiple states.
Have an attorney from the state where the contract is binded to review it.
06-26-2012, 06:00 PM
#29
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 55
Who hired the shipper? What were the shipping terms? Who chose the dealer and authorized the work?
Most contracts stipulate which state any type of legal process will take place. The person who draws up the contracts chooses the state they feel most comfortable to defend themselves in.
If the shipping company is liable, you may be able to sue in multiple states if they crossed state lines.
Nexus is tricky and complicated when multiple companies and the parties being located in multiple states.
Have an attorney from the state where the contract is binded to review it.
Most contracts stipulate which state any type of legal process will take place. The person who draws up the contracts chooses the state they feel most comfortable to defend themselves in.
If the shipping company is liable, you may be able to sue in multiple states if they crossed state lines.
Nexus is tricky and complicated when multiple companies and the parties being located in multiple states.
Have an attorney from the state where the contract is binded to review it.
06-26-2012, 06:50 PM
#30
You go fast, spin out 180 and start rolling backwards while not giving it gas with the clutch engaged. So not only did the engine spin backwards, but it went from spinning probably 6k to -2k in a few seconds.