Rear Diff vent tube issue is NO JOKE (Pics) - 2013 GT 8.8" Axle
04-29-2013, 01:42 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 228
ok this is nothing new..... The axle fluid can get very hot under hard drag/street/tracking use. The heat causes the fluid and the trapped air to expand, and frequently it will "weep" out of the vent assembly. The vent assy helps prevent pressure leaks so they dont blow past your rear diff cover.
What it is, it appears that the axle is being overfilled at the factory more than the problem being with the vent itself. If you remove the fill plug and gear oil comes shooting out then its pretty obvious it was overfilled. Just drain and refill it with Ford synthetic and friction modifier and leave the level just below the fill hole & you'll be fine...
What it is, it appears that the axle is being overfilled at the factory more than the problem being with the vent itself. If you remove the fill plug and gear oil comes shooting out then its pretty obvious it was overfilled. Just drain and refill it with Ford synthetic and friction modifier and leave the level just below the fill hole & you'll be fine...
04-29-2013, 01:54 PM
#12
04-29-2013, 01:59 PM
#13
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
Seems the turkey baster only works for 2011. with the 13's because the cap was relocated, the baster, from what I am reading on lowered stangs, melts because of exposure to the exhaust.
I have read about the cover, but if ford ain't paying for it... I am not. I believe FORD has to own up to this fiasco or what happens when these things blow out too much oil and the rear seizes from lack of lubrication? You lock up a rear I would think that is going to be one abrupt stop you don't want to mess with. Plus Ford had the lock ups in the 90's which caused severe crashes if I remember correctly. (rangers or explorers I believe it was) - this was a while ago so don't trust what I say 100%, but I believe there was a recall on this particular item (some fires as well)
They should cough up for the cover and relocation because whether you run RP like I do, or standard FRGO (ford rear gear oil), it is slopping up my parking space. plus slopping up my under carriage.
While I didn't pay sticker for mine, these are $36,000+ cars Ford should be putting a little more quality into this design wouldn't you agree?
Also, I don't need my apartment management bitching my 2013 is leaving oil spots all over the newly paved parking lot. I had a cover leak which I finally fixed prior to them paving the lots, but my spot was just gobs of RGO from that leak, and now this thing is spurting like old faithful.
But my point of the post is for those who may have ignored it was to warn them this is what they might be seeing.
I have read about the cover, but if ford ain't paying for it... I am not. I believe FORD has to own up to this fiasco or what happens when these things blow out too much oil and the rear seizes from lack of lubrication? You lock up a rear I would think that is going to be one abrupt stop you don't want to mess with. Plus Ford had the lock ups in the 90's which caused severe crashes if I remember correctly. (rangers or explorers I believe it was) - this was a while ago so don't trust what I say 100%, but I believe there was a recall on this particular item (some fires as well)
They should cough up for the cover and relocation because whether you run RP like I do, or standard FRGO (ford rear gear oil), it is slopping up my parking space. plus slopping up my under carriage.
While I didn't pay sticker for mine, these are $36,000+ cars Ford should be putting a little more quality into this design wouldn't you agree?
Also, I don't need my apartment management bitching my 2013 is leaving oil spots all over the newly paved parking lot. I had a cover leak which I finally fixed prior to them paving the lots, but my spot was just gobs of RGO from that leak, and now this thing is spurting like old faithful.
But my point of the post is for those who may have ignored it was to warn them this is what they might be seeing.
You are referring to the differential in the Ranger fracturing.
http://www.faqs.org/car/ford-ranger-2002/power-train/
(first one listed)
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Recalls+&+Defects
The Ranger has issues with the vent leaking (like the mustang) but again, nothing reported by NHTSA about differential lock-ups related to it.
If you are dumping that much oil out the diff vent to where it's puddling under the car everytime you drive then there is another problem, over filled or the cap is defective.
Last edited by Derf00; 04-29-2013 at 02:04 PM.
04-29-2013, 02:16 PM
#14
ok this is nothing new..... The axle fluid can get very hot under hard drag/street/tracking use. The heat causes the fluid and the trapped air to expand, and frequently it will "weep" out of the vent assembly. The vent assy helps prevent pressure leaks so they dont blow past your rear diff cover.
What it is, it appears that the axle is being overfilled at the factory more than the problem being with the vent itself. If you remove the fill plug and gear oil comes shooting out then its pretty obvious it was overfilled. Just drain and refill it with Ford synthetic and friction modifier and leave the level just below the fill hole & you'll be fine...
What it is, it appears that the axle is being overfilled at the factory more than the problem being with the vent itself. If you remove the fill plug and gear oil comes shooting out then its pretty obvious it was overfilled. Just drain and refill it with Ford synthetic and friction modifier and leave the level just below the fill hole & you'll be fine...
I am aware of the expansion of the fluid, but per my pics that is just way too much spew coming from the vent IMHO. Especially since I filled through the rear fill hole and not the diff cover fill hole.
If anything I would be slightly underfilled.
04-29-2013, 02:22 PM
#15
There hasn't been a single problem with the rear 'locking up' due to lack of oil from the factory of any vehicle due to the vent. Talk about over exaggerating/misinformation.
You are referring to the differential in the Ranger fracturing.
http://www.faqs.org/car/ford-ranger-2002/power-train/
(first one listed)
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Recalls+&+Defects
The Ranger has issues with the vent leaking (like the mustang) but again, nothing reported by NHTSA about differential lock-ups related to it.
If you are dumping that much oil out the diff vent to where it's puddling under the car everytime you drive then there is another problem, over filled or the cap is defective.
You are referring to the differential in the Ranger fracturing.
http://www.faqs.org/car/ford-ranger-2002/power-train/
(first one listed)
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Recalls+&+Defects
The Ranger has issues with the vent leaking (like the mustang) but again, nothing reported by NHTSA about differential lock-ups related to it.
If you are dumping that much oil out the diff vent to where it's puddling under the car everytime you drive then there is another problem, over filled or the cap is defective.
I would hate to find out the vent is defective to the point it comes loose from the axle and the creates an opening enough to spew all the fuild out and the rear locks up.
I don't know what you do for a living but I do QA, actually QS9000 certified from ASQ at the behst of FORD as I worked for a major ford parts supplier, so risk management and mitigation is part of what I do... according to the TSB they have techs remove the vent and thread sealing it, so that tells me this is an issue with fitament of the vent. If the fitamet isn't right, what are the chances of this vent piece of coming loose and the axle losing enough fluid to cause an issue larger than the leak/venting itself.
Not everything is as cut and dry as people would like so when you hear about an issue, find the issue on a product,, see the CAPA (Corrective Preventative Action), which in this case is the TSB, and the TSB has you remove the vent fitting to thread seal it you have to start looking beyond the obvious and looking into what is the real problem... to me thread sealing tells me tolerances are off with the hole and vent plug.
04-29-2013, 02:53 PM
#16
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
Ambient temp this morning was in the mid 60's and the temp on the diff cover and bottom of the housing was 139F for both. That's a 20 minute drive with about 5 minutes of 70mph towards the end.
coming home I beat on it after every turn and did my mandatory fishtail in second gear down my dirt road. Ambient temps were in the mid 80's and the diff cover (frpp aluminum) was 150F and the bottom of the housing was 160F. The increase in temp could very well be from a higher ambient temp.
In conclusion, my rear end isn't as hot as I thought, lol! I'll put the redline in on Thursday and we will see what's what. I'll see just how reusable that lube-locker gasket really is. My drain plug has been seized in that aluminum cover since day one, so I'm going to have to pull the cover off.
I also have royal purple 75w140 in there, but it's been in there for 30,000+ miles.
coming home I beat on it after every turn and did my mandatory fishtail in second gear down my dirt road. Ambient temps were in the mid 80's and the diff cover (frpp aluminum) was 150F and the bottom of the housing was 160F. The increase in temp could very well be from a higher ambient temp.
In conclusion, my rear end isn't as hot as I thought, lol! I'll put the redline in on Thursday and we will see what's what. I'll see just how reusable that lube-locker gasket really is. My drain plug has been seized in that aluminum cover since day one, so I'm going to have to pull the cover off.
I also have royal purple 75w140 in there, but it's been in there for 30,000+ miles.
Last edited by moosestang; 04-29-2013 at 02:57 PM.
04-29-2013, 02:58 PM
#17
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
I am not saying it happened with Mustangs or this issue, but if the vents are spewing like mine and someone is not diligent in checking under their car what if this problem did cause it?
I would hate to find out the vent is defective to the point it comes loose from the axle and the creates an opening enough to spew all the fuild out and the rear locks up.
I don't know what you do for a living but I do QA, actually QS9000 certified from ASQ at the behst of FORD as I worked for a major ford parts supplier, so risk management and mitigation is part of what I do... according to the TSB they have techs remove the vent and thread sealing it, so that tells me this is an issue with fitament of the vent. If the fitamet isn't right, what are the chances of this vent piece of coming loose and the axle losing enough fluid to cause an issue larger than the leak/venting itself.
Not everything is as cut and dry as people would like so when you hear about an issue, find the issue on a product,, see the CAPA (Corrective Preventative Action), which in this case is the TSB, and the TSB has you remove the vent fitting to thread seal it you have to start looking beyond the obvious and looking into what is the real problem... to me thread sealing tells me tolerances are off with the hole and vent plug.
I would hate to find out the vent is defective to the point it comes loose from the axle and the creates an opening enough to spew all the fuild out and the rear locks up.
I don't know what you do for a living but I do QA, actually QS9000 certified from ASQ at the behst of FORD as I worked for a major ford parts supplier, so risk management and mitigation is part of what I do... according to the TSB they have techs remove the vent and thread sealing it, so that tells me this is an issue with fitament of the vent. If the fitamet isn't right, what are the chances of this vent piece of coming loose and the axle losing enough fluid to cause an issue larger than the leak/venting itself.
Not everything is as cut and dry as people would like so when you hear about an issue, find the issue on a product,, see the CAPA (Corrective Preventative Action), which in this case is the TSB, and the TSB has you remove the vent fitting to thread seal it you have to start looking beyond the obvious and looking into what is the real problem... to me thread sealing tells me tolerances are off with the hole and vent plug.
'What if' is a long, long road to travel down.
Risk management also involves statistics. What is the probability that something like is being stated as a 'What if' could occur?
Yep, TSB is a preventative measure. To go further and say "what if the valve leaks so much fluid it would cause the diff to lock up and possibly cause an accident" was most likely already explored and deemed not high enough (statistically and based on past experience) to require further action like a recall. The next step.
If you feel that strongly then log a complaint with the NHTSA and have them investigate it so they can issue a Recall if it's deemened necessary after exploring the unlikely probability.
I presume the vent fitting doesn't use a compression fitting which is why the thread sealant is required. Two different metal types screwed together that are exposed to temperature extremes (freezing/heat from exhaust). Different metals expand at different rates so the thread sealant would be used to fill the gap(s) in the threads as things heat up and cool down at different rates. The alternative would be an O-ring style seat as is seen with power sterring systems. Nothing wrong with either of those types of preventative fixes.
At Ford when they designed the vent, someone probably ran tests without the sealant under controlled conditions and didn't think real world use needed it. This is most often the underlying reason For TSB's being released and subsequent mfg practices changing. Someone doesn't do their due diligence on the front end or doesn't account for a common scenario in the real world.
In the lab they got minimal or acceptable levels of leakage. After they started selling they saw an 'oops' and realeased the TSB. If you look at stangs built after the TSB they probably already have the TSB from the factory.
I think we're close to being on the same page. Just some minor disagreement in view point is all.
In your case, it does look excessive. Did the car do that before you changed to rear gear and refilled it?
04-29-2013, 03:15 PM
#18
Nope, you didn't say the Mustang was the one that had the issues. I simply did the research you should've done before you posted. You mentioned Ranger and you mentioned differential lock ups. I simply made the connection for you with the correct information
'What if' is a long, long road to travel down.
Risk management also involves statistics. What is the probability that something like is being stated as a 'What if' could occur?
Yep, TSB is a preventative measure. To go further and say "what if the valve leaks so much fluid it would cause the diff to lock up and possibly cause an accident" was most likely already explored and deemed not high enough (statistically and based on past experience) to require further action like a recall. The next step.
If you feel that strongly then log a complaint with the NHTSA and have them investigate it so they can issue a Recall if it's deemened necessary after exploring the unlikely probability.
I presume the vent fitting doesn't use a compression fitting which is why the thread sealant is required. Two different metal types screwed together that are exposed to temperature extremes (freezing/heat from exhaust). Different metals expand at different rates so the thread sealant would be used to fill the gap(s) in the threads as things heat up and cool down at different rates. The alternative would be an O-ring style seat as is seen with power sterring systems. Nothing wrong with either of those types of preventative fixes.
At Ford when they designed the vent, someone probably ran tests without the sealant under controlled conditions and didn't think real world use needed it. This is most often the underlying reason For TSB's being released and subsequent mfg practices changing. Someone doesn't do their due diligence on the front end or doesn't account for a common scenario in the real world.
In the lab they got minimal or acceptable levels of leakage. After they started selling they saw an 'oops' and realeased the TSB. If you look at stangs built after the TSB they probably already have the TSB from the factory.
I think we're close to being on the same page. Just some minor disagreement in view point is all.
In your case, it does look excessive. Did the car do that before you changed to rear gear and refilled it?
'What if' is a long, long road to travel down.
Risk management also involves statistics. What is the probability that something like is being stated as a 'What if' could occur?
Yep, TSB is a preventative measure. To go further and say "what if the valve leaks so much fluid it would cause the diff to lock up and possibly cause an accident" was most likely already explored and deemed not high enough (statistically and based on past experience) to require further action like a recall. The next step.
If you feel that strongly then log a complaint with the NHTSA and have them investigate it so they can issue a Recall if it's deemened necessary after exploring the unlikely probability.
I presume the vent fitting doesn't use a compression fitting which is why the thread sealant is required. Two different metal types screwed together that are exposed to temperature extremes (freezing/heat from exhaust). Different metals expand at different rates so the thread sealant would be used to fill the gap(s) in the threads as things heat up and cool down at different rates. The alternative would be an O-ring style seat as is seen with power sterring systems. Nothing wrong with either of those types of preventative fixes.
At Ford when they designed the vent, someone probably ran tests without the sealant under controlled conditions and didn't think real world use needed it. This is most often the underlying reason For TSB's being released and subsequent mfg practices changing. Someone doesn't do their due diligence on the front end or doesn't account for a common scenario in the real world.
In the lab they got minimal or acceptable levels of leakage. After they started selling they saw an 'oops' and realeased the TSB. If you look at stangs built after the TSB they probably already have the TSB from the factory.
I think we're close to being on the same page. Just some minor disagreement in view point is all.
In your case, it does look excessive. Did the car do that before you changed to rear gear and refilled it?
My 13, went from the dealer on 3/19 when I bought it, to rear gears around 4/4/13 so you can imagine the quickness in which I did the switch out. ( 2 weeks) but again I never looked. Only reason I have been under it more now is my diff cover leaked after the gear change. We finally got the leak to stop but in doing my diligence I have been checking regulary to make sure I had no more cover leaks, Sunday while doing another taks, is when I noticed the axle splatter in my pictures. (the cover leak was finally eradicated last weekend 4/20/13, after multiple things such as sealer and other items... so it really became for me check it make sure it has completely stopped.
I admit if a car is running fine. I don't crawl under it. I wait til I do an oil change or have it on a lift for exhaust work to take a look around. But I don't make it a weekly habit, the diff cover leak has made me crawl under it more frequently, but I was going under this time to adjust my exhaust as I heard it rattling against the frame (these Pypes bombs are getting tossed)
Hence I found the drip/leak from the vent tube.
05-02-2013, 09:22 AM
#19
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Clermont, FL
Posts: 2,952
05-02-2013, 11:38 AM
#20
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
I changed out my fluid today after 5+ years and almost 40,000 miles. I got the stupid drain plug out of the frpp cover. I just ground down my 1/4 inch hex socket that I broke and it came right out.
I've had royal purple 75w140 in it for all those miles and that stuff still looked new. Here's the factory fill plug.
I put in what was left of my 3rd bottle of royal purple, about 1/2 a quart and filled the rest with redline heavy shockproof gear oil. The weather sucks right now, so i'll report tomorrow on any reduction in gear whine and whether or not I see any fluid expelled from the vent tube.
I've had royal purple 75w140 in it for all those miles and that stuff still looked new. Here's the factory fill plug.
I put in what was left of my 3rd bottle of royal purple, about 1/2 a quart and filled the rest with redline heavy shockproof gear oil. The weather sucks right now, so i'll report tomorrow on any reduction in gear whine and whether or not I see any fluid expelled from the vent tube.