2 Questions: Suspension and Exhaust
06-18-2013, 02:55 PM
#1
2 Questions: Suspension and Exhaust
hey everyone, as I continue to lay out my plans for modifications I keep running into questions that I cannot answer.
First question: I'm looking at re-doing my entire exhaust system with Borla products. I have a 2012 V6 manual, and I saw that Hellion now makes a turbo system for the V6's. They stated that in order to install the system I needed the V8 exhaust. So, can I purchase Borla Headers (made for the V6), and the Borla ATAK catback system that is made for the GT's? What complications do you guys think I'll run into with this?
Second question: I want to redo my suspension with the Eibach Pro-sport kit (maybe it's pro-street, I keep confusing the two). But while I'm adjusting the suspension, I noticed this issue with the front two tires on my car:
my friend and i noticed that they are angled like that (not that extreme tho, that was just for emphasis). my friend called it "negative camber" or something like that. how do i fix that so that my tires are perpendicular to the frame of the car (and striking the road at a 90 degree angle)?
all advice is much appreciated!
First question: I'm looking at re-doing my entire exhaust system with Borla products. I have a 2012 V6 manual, and I saw that Hellion now makes a turbo system for the V6's. They stated that in order to install the system I needed the V8 exhaust. So, can I purchase Borla Headers (made for the V6), and the Borla ATAK catback system that is made for the GT's? What complications do you guys think I'll run into with this?
Second question: I want to redo my suspension with the Eibach Pro-sport kit (maybe it's pro-street, I keep confusing the two). But while I'm adjusting the suspension, I noticed this issue with the front two tires on my car:
my friend and i noticed that they are angled like that (not that extreme tho, that was just for emphasis). my friend called it "negative camber" or something like that. how do i fix that so that my tires are perpendicular to the frame of the car (and striking the road at a 90 degree angle)?
all advice is much appreciated!
06-18-2013, 03:54 PM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NH
Posts: 154
You don't want the tires at a perfect 90 degree angle with the road surface, unless you only ever drive the car perfectly straight.
Just about every vehicle out there run some amount of negative camber, even if it's only a tenth of a degree or so, and high performance cars will run quite a bit more than that. This improves the cornering abilities of the car significantly, and if you drive somewhat aggressively it actually improves tire life as well.
When you make a corner at high speeds and generate a lot of lateral g forces, the tires on the outside of the corner are going to roll over onto the outside edges. If you have enough negative camber, they'll actually roll over to maximize tire contact with the road.
If you have no camber at all and run the car hard, you'll wear the outside edges of the tires prematurely. On the other side, if you have too much negative camber and/or don't drive the car hard at all, you will wear the inside edges of the tires prematurely.
If you're performing the sort of suspension mods you've been doing to your car though, I have to assume you are driving aggressively at least some of the time, so you're going to want some negative camber. If you drive real aggressively, you may even want more than the factory suspension can give you, which is where camber plates and/or bolts come into play (although most people use those to just get things back to stock when lowering the car, they also get used by the more hardcore folks that autox or road-race to get more negative camber)
Just about every vehicle out there run some amount of negative camber, even if it's only a tenth of a degree or so, and high performance cars will run quite a bit more than that. This improves the cornering abilities of the car significantly, and if you drive somewhat aggressively it actually improves tire life as well.
When you make a corner at high speeds and generate a lot of lateral g forces, the tires on the outside of the corner are going to roll over onto the outside edges. If you have enough negative camber, they'll actually roll over to maximize tire contact with the road.
If you have no camber at all and run the car hard, you'll wear the outside edges of the tires prematurely. On the other side, if you have too much negative camber and/or don't drive the car hard at all, you will wear the inside edges of the tires prematurely.
If you're performing the sort of suspension mods you've been doing to your car though, I have to assume you are driving aggressively at least some of the time, so you're going to want some negative camber. If you drive real aggressively, you may even want more than the factory suspension can give you, which is where camber plates and/or bolts come into play (although most people use those to just get things back to stock when lowering the car, they also get used by the more hardcore folks that autox or road-race to get more negative camber)
06-18-2013, 04:18 PM
#3
You don't want the tires at a perfect 90 degree angle with the road surface, unless you only ever drive the car perfectly straight.
Just about every vehicle out there run some amount of negative camber, even if it's only a tenth of a degree or so, and high performance cars will run quite a bit more than that. This improves the cornering abilities of the car significantly, and if you drive somewhat aggressively it actually improves tire life as well.
When you make a corner at high speeds and generate a lot of lateral g forces, the tires on the outside of the corner are going to roll over onto the outside edges. If you have enough negative camber, they'll actually roll over to maximize tire contact with the road.
If you have no camber at all and run the car hard, you'll wear the outside edges of the tires prematurely. On the other side, if you have too much negative camber and/or don't drive the car hard at all, you will wear the inside edges of the tires prematurely.
If you're performing the sort of suspension mods you've been doing to your car though, I have to assume you are driving aggressively at least some of the time, so you're going to want some negative camber. If you drive real aggressively, you may even want more than the factory suspension can give you, which is where camber plates and/or bolts come into play (although most people use those to just get things back to stock when lowering the car, they also get used by the more hardcore folks that autox or road-race to get more negative camber)
Just about every vehicle out there run some amount of negative camber, even if it's only a tenth of a degree or so, and high performance cars will run quite a bit more than that. This improves the cornering abilities of the car significantly, and if you drive somewhat aggressively it actually improves tire life as well.
When you make a corner at high speeds and generate a lot of lateral g forces, the tires on the outside of the corner are going to roll over onto the outside edges. If you have enough negative camber, they'll actually roll over to maximize tire contact with the road.
If you have no camber at all and run the car hard, you'll wear the outside edges of the tires prematurely. On the other side, if you have too much negative camber and/or don't drive the car hard at all, you will wear the inside edges of the tires prematurely.
If you're performing the sort of suspension mods you've been doing to your car though, I have to assume you are driving aggressively at least some of the time, so you're going to want some negative camber. If you drive real aggressively, you may even want more than the factory suspension can give you, which is where camber plates and/or bolts come into play (although most people use those to just get things back to stock when lowering the car, they also get used by the more hardcore folks that autox or road-race to get more negative camber)
06-18-2013, 07:02 PM
#4
That's actually wrong info!! You want tire perfectly perpendicular to ground for maximum contact patch. Contact patch on turns will be maintained with proper positive caster, if notice when you turn wheels the camber is affected due to caster.
06-18-2013, 10:00 PM
#6
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 863
Some neg camber is good but you don't want to have to much. You can get some Camber Bolts to correct it back into factory spec. I did that with mine once I put on the Eibach Pro Springs. You could also do Caster Camber Plates but if your not planning on adjusting your camber to suit what road you driving on that day then the bolts will do just fine.
I also installed a Whiteline Panhard bar to center the rear axle. Take a look at your back end you might notice one tire sits out more than the other.
Than after that my suspension got a tad out of control with Whiteline Upper Control arms and lower control arms. Along with Whiteline Sway bars front and rear..... But hey she sticks to the road really good lol
Shocks and struts will be in your near future they are in my near future closer than I would like. The stock shocks and struts wear out really fast after your lower the car.
here is what mine looks like.
I also installed a Whiteline Panhard bar to center the rear axle. Take a look at your back end you might notice one tire sits out more than the other.
Than after that my suspension got a tad out of control with Whiteline Upper Control arms and lower control arms. Along with Whiteline Sway bars front and rear..... But hey she sticks to the road really good lol
Shocks and struts will be in your near future they are in my near future closer than I would like. The stock shocks and struts wear out really fast after your lower the car.
here is what mine looks like.
Last edited by DocSnickers; 06-18-2013 at 10:03 PM.
06-19-2013, 08:18 AM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NH
Posts: 154
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=722&viewfil...IFICATIONS.pdf
Ford alignment specs on camber is -0.75+/-0.75. That's a range of 0 to -1.5 degrees of camber and few, if any, car will even be close to 0 camber. The Shelby specs are pushed a further -.0.25 out.
And the simple fact is, the more aggressively you drive, the more negative camber you are going to need to avoid abnormal tire wear. Caster just does not provide enough dynamic camber to compensate for real driving. I make that statement from nearly two decades of actual experience.
Take your car to half a dozen autocross events and see how your tires like that factory camber. If they like it just fine, then you're probably driving like my grandma.
06-20-2013, 08:00 PM
#8
That's autocross, we're talking about a street car unless I missed something in original post which I don't believe I have. And as far as specs go, specs are specs my interpretation of his question was a general idea of camber angles vs handling vs tire wear on said street car.
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