GT S197 General DiscussionThis section is for technical discussions pertaining specifically to the V8 variation of the 2005 and newer Ford Mustang.
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I have been battling this wicked driveline issue for the last year. I am unsure exactly when it started, it's one of those things that crept up on me. Last Summer I did several "Upgrades" at once so I am not sure who the culprit is (other than me). Keep in mind I can prevent it by manipulating the throttle and clutch. I can eliminate it most of the time, but I am convinced that this is not normal under any circumstances. Please don't post "Driver Error" comments. I really need your help.
Spec Stage 3+ Clutch
Spec Billet Steel Flywheel
New PIlot Bearing
New FORD OEM Slave Cylinder
Shaftmasters 1 Piece Aluminum Driveshaft
FMS 4.10 Rear End Gear
New Clutch Packs
OEM FORD Fluid w/ Friction Modifier
Prothane Motor Mounts
K-Member Brace with Torque Limiters (this was more for the stiff 1-2 shift)
Sometime after all this was completed I started noticing something wasn't right.
I have been researching this all winter and am pretty much at a loss.
I have tried several things in an attempt to resolve this.
New Trans Fluid, tried Motorcraft, Mobil1, currently using Pennzoil synchromesh
Checked all drive line bolts
Checked and adjusted pinion angle several times
Replaced Upper Differential Bushing with Prothane Unit
Replaced Transmission Mount with Competition Engineering Solid Mount
Pulled and Re-greased Pinion Slip Yoke
I have done all the work myself and researched everything to death before I started wrenching. I am sure it's my fault, but I just can't fix this one alone. I have only found one YouTube clip and it sounds EXACTLY the same as mine only this was on a BMW. Unfortunately there are no comments or any resolutions posted. I plan on spending the day in the garage tomorrow working on this so any ideas are truly welcome.
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No the driveshaft is totally clear. I am trying to eliminate everything before I pop the diff cover off and look inside. I set the backlash to .008, shimmed the carrier and had good contact patterns and set the pinion preload to spec. I thought it could be the pinion nut came loose but when I greased the slip yoke I had the DS out and the pinion seemed solid.
I have a 2012 V6 car with the Getrash MT82 that does the same thing. Feels like it lots of slack and slop in the driveline seems typical with all of the newer Mustangs I have driven. I guess my driving adjusted so I can drive it smoothly now with proper throttle and clutch manipulation but this is just about the most disappointing car I have ever owned. The more I live with the car the more I hate it. Ford got so many things wrong on these cars.
Messed with the pinion angle again. I think I had is set wrong and I really hate trying to take measurements with this angle gauge. Anyway, it didn't reduce the jittering at all. I was thinking there was some binding going on from a bad angle. I ended up dropping the DS at the trans. So now I know that it does not do it without the drivetrain load. I still have a bad feeling that it is the springs in the clutch plate. I have seen numerous posts of Spec clutches where the springs get all loose. Unfortunetly no one posts a movie of what it did on the car. My thought here is that while the springs try to dampen the shock of clutch engagement, a weak or failing set would allow the drivetrain to bobble back and forth.
Put the stock 2 piece DS back in and it's just as obnoxious as before. No change, so the Shaftmaster aluminum DS isn't the problem. That leaves the transmission or the rear end. I really wish I didn't have to pull one of these. I am still leaning toward the clutch being the issue but we'll see I guess.
Pulled the rear tires off to lessen the load on the drivetrain and this has had the biggest effect so far. Not sure what it means. There is still a clunk as slack in the drive train is picked up, this is normal. The fact that the bobbling is gone or severly reduced has got me confused. I am also noticing that the rear rotors are pretty hard to turn by hand, at least harder than I imagined they would be. The brakes aren't dragging so it must be resistance in the rear end. Does anyone know if there is a spec in foot pounds to turn the rear axle?
Does it make the same noise in reverse? Of it does then you can rule out the transmission. I'd say rear end pinion bearing I've heard that noise before and it was a pinion bearing not pressed on straight.
Yes it will do it in reverse. I was trying a few things last night and found that with only one tire on, dosen't matter which side, it does not do it. If I decide to break into the diff case again I'll check the pinion bearing to be sure.
I am not going to call this solved yet, but I think I am finally on the right path.
I realized that I had a "DUH" moment while messing with the pinion angle. I had the front on ramps but the rear was on stands that were on the frame. That meant the suspension was at full droop when I set the angle. DUH, I knew this already. So last night I put the stands under the rear axle and did it with a loaded suspension. MAJOR reduction in banging and rebounding! It will still do it a little bit, but I have to be doing something stupid to get it to happen now. During normal driving it is hardly noticeable. I will see if I can dial it in even better next time I get it on a lift.
Sounds like clutch chatter to me. How many miles on the spec 3+? Have you changed the stock clutch line to a stainless steel braided line? Believe it or not, changing the clutch line really helped make my spec 3+ more street friendly.
Boost or Buell, decisions, decisions.
whipple HO SC,FRPP k springs, Pypes mid mufflers, hurst, frpp TB, 4.10's, spohn lca's, adj. UCA, relo brackets, 1 piece DS, spec stg 3+ clutch. email@example.com so far with a 2.01 60 ft time
I did the clutch last summer, so only several thousand miles on it since then. I am not ruling anything out at this point, but fixing the pinion angle has actually lessened it. Not sure if there is some kind of interaction between clutch chatter and pinion angle though.
Cause if its out of whack it will get worse and posssibly grenade the entire rear end. My PA was out which gave me lots of vibration but nothing like the noise you have. Thats something way more involved than just your PA.
06 Satin Silver GT - Auto...ROUSH M90 CAI, Afco Dual Fan HE, 4.10s,Trutrac, Detroit Rockers, Moroso, DSS DS, TCI Rachet Shifter, PA Deep Pan, Eibach Handling, FR P Springs, Strange Shocks/Struts, BMR, J&M, SS Lines/ EBC Rotors w/Reds, Mickey Thompson SC5, Nitto 255/305, 2011 leather, Pypes LT's/H-Pipe, MBRP Resonators, Borla
2014 Pro Street 12.90 Class...Season Points Runner Up
If fixing the pinion angle helped it then I would guess it was the differential. It was my first guess too. But clutch was my second guess.
Where is the noise coming from?
They make a mechanics stethoscope you can use to listen for the noise.
That is the deceiving part, from the drivers seat you would swear it's the rear end. From outside the vehicle it sounds more like in the middle and when I am under the car with my ear against the drivetrain, it is loudest right where the transmission connects to the driveshaft. I just had the driveshaft out and there is no play in any of the U-joints. I also checked the output flange of the trans and the pinion yoke of the rear end, both are rock solid with zero play in any direction. I'm stumped.
You need to take the cover off and look, and I would also disconnect the DS from the rear end and spin it by itself.
I had a detroit locker in my car and one day I got a strange clicking sound that was just like you described. Then, a light howl from the diff. I took it to the shop and only one bolt was left in the ring gear, there was one broken spring in the diff and because of the broken pieces, it had made a few holes in the diff out of round. Instead of repairing, I replaced it. Everything except the axles were replaced. I now have a Auburn gear driven LSD.
The only way to really know is to pull the cover. You probably will have to pull the panhard bar and buy a little bit of RTV or whatever is used to seal the rear end up.
Again, take it to a pro. I don't mess with rear ends.
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Tuned By Tony at Tuners Inc
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