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2013 Mustang GT - Slower times

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Old 03-16-2015, 04:28 PM   #1
JonnyW
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Exclamation 2013 Mustang GT - Slower times

Hey everyone, I own a 2013 Mustang GT Premium with the track pack. After I installed a Steeda CAI and Bama V1 93 Race tune a year and a half ago, I would easily run 4.4-4.5 0-60 without breaking a sweat. This was determined with Track Apps.

After installation of more mods, my times are much slower. I'm now running 4.8-4.9 0-60 times and am trying to figure out why my times are so terrible.

After running 4.4s with the CAI and tune, I installed
Boss 302 manifold
Kooks catback exhaust
BAMA V2 93 race tune
MGW short shifter
Powerstop drilled/slotted rotors (I'll get to these in a minute)
JHR motor mounts
Whiteline trans bushing insert
Steeda SS clutch line
Velgen VMB5 20" wheels
Nitto NT05 275/35/20 front, 305/30/20 rear

Amsoil 10w-30
Amsoil ATF

Looking at this list, intuition first tells me that my problems are with the manifold and the wheels. I would agree, however, my wheels setup plus sized meaning the overall diameter is actually a touch smaller than the track pack setup. 28.04" vs 27.76" and the wheels also weigh much less than the stockers. Front-rear, 31-33lbs vs 27-29lbs or something similar to that. The rotors I added also weigh less than Brembo's rotors. The rotational mass shouldn't be enough for me to go from 4.3 to 4.8 in 0-60 times. The only problem I can think of with the wheels, from 19 to 20 inches, that the weight is spaced out by a half inch in radius all the way around. The tire's diameter stays the same with the shorter sidewall.

As for the Boss 302 manifold, I know I lose a little power down low. But once I shift at 7400 RPM, I'm right back in the power band in second gear at 5500 RPM. Doesn't that make up for the difference in terms of times?

All other conditions are about the same, but I've tested multiple times on different days and consistently ran 4.4 before I added these other mods. I'm doing the same now and can only manage 4.8. Can anyone tell me why my times are this slow? I'd like to think that they should be the same as before.

I'm debating on unbolting the Boss 302 manifold and installing the stock coyote manifold to determine if my slower times are a result of my manifold, or my wheels and tires.

I plan on ordering longtubes in the future. Would this make up for lost power and then some considering the Boss 302 manifold? Much thanks everyone.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:51 PM   #2
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I wonder if the larger wheels are carrying weight further out from the axle? Even if lighter overall might there be a negative effect carrying the weight on a larger radius from the axle? I agree the manifold would be my first suspicion. Seems like a good choice for high RPM road course running but not so much for drag racing or street driving.
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Old 03-16-2015, 09:01 PM   #3
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That was my concern as well, but I still don't think that would have changed my times so drastically. The Boss manifold has been a mod that will look good under the hood and on the dyno, but I'm starting to wonder if it makes these cars slower.

I did read a thread earlier today about someone supposedly running his GT with the stock manifold at the strip, then installing the Boss manifold and running .2 seconds faster in the quarter that same night. However, proof has also been in the pudding that it does hurt your 60' and 1/8th, so I'm guessing it hurts your 0-60 to a degree.

Looks like I'll be installing the stock manifold to see if the problem lies within the boss manifold. Upon this, I'll also know how much, if any, my wheel setup impacts the performance of my acceleration. I'll relay back in a few days with this information. I'll need to order tunes from BAMA to be able to accommodate the stock manifold.
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:02 AM   #4
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You should be shifting at 7600 minimum for the Boss Intake to be effective.

Have you logged the tune for Bama so they can see the logs? Are you sure they're turning off clutch protection?
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Old 03-17-2015, 06:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmach View Post
You should be shifting at 7600 minimum for the Boss Intake to be effective.

Have you logged the tune for Bama so they can see the logs? Are you sure they're turning off clutch protection?
I would be shifting at 7600 RPM if I wasn't getting locked out. I did call Bama yesterday and they sent me info to data log. I'll be doing this later today.
What is clutch protection? I have the MT82 manual trans, very common problem with us guys is that we get locked out extremely easily. I have DOT 4 coming today and will be doing a brake fluid swap to see if that helps clutch disengagement at all. I'm curious to know how this "clutch protection" you speak of works. Also, I believe the highest limiter Bama puts on the car is 7400, I'll verify tomorrow.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:08 AM   #6
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Bama was not able to turn off torque management/clutch protection in the past so I don't know if they can do it now. Very important.

Yea one of the biggest reasons the manuals struggle with the Boss Intake is because of the transmission/clutch itself not allowing high rpm shifts.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmach View Post
Bama was not able to turn off torque management/clutch protection in the past so I don't know if they can do it now. Very important.

Yea one of the biggest reasons the manuals struggle with the Boss Intake is because of the transmission/clutch itself not allowing high rpm shifts.
Not to thread jack, but Scott, can you elaborate on the clutch protection/torque management please? Thanks!
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowbra302 View Post
Not to thread jack, but Scott, can you elaborate on the clutch protection/torque management please? Thanks!
Not thread jacking as I'm very curious as well. From what I've heard, the stock clutch is one of, if not the main issue with high RPM shifting. Something to do with the pressure plate/pressure plate bolts backing out?

Aside from this, I just stumbled across something very interesting. Check out the dyno numbers of coyote bolt-on mods. The boss 302 manifold robs some serious power compared to the stock manifold. Even with headers.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...s/viewall.html

So basically you'd see consistently higher numbers overall with the stock manifold. Unless of course you're getting into cams and heads to get your RPMs up to around 8000. Looks like I'm going back to the stock manifold.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:40 AM   #9
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Hey Jon - Definitely interesting. Can you shoot me a PM with your Email address? I'd like to get a look at the logs with the Bama Team. I know they're running a little behind but I'll make sure that it's fasttracked for you.

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Old 03-17-2015, 03:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyW View Post
Hey everyone, I own a 2013 Mustang GT Premium with the track pack. After I installed a Steeda CAI and Bama V1 93 Race tune a year and a half ago, I would easily run 4.4-4.5 0-60 without breaking a sweat. This was determined with Track Apps.

After installation of more mods, my times are much slower. I'm now running 4.8-4.9 0-60 times and am trying to figure out why my times are so terrible.

After running 4.4s with the CAI and tune, I installed
Boss 302 manifold
Kooks catback exhaust
BAMA V2 93 race tune
There's your problem. The Boss manifold requires a custom tune and if you're using a canned tune, it may not be dialed in correctly.
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Slowbra302 View Post
Not to thread jack, but Scott, can you elaborate on the clutch protection/torque management please? Thanks!
In the stock tune Ford has it set up so that if the computer senses any clutch slippage torque management kicks in by pulling timing to protect the clutch from doing any damage. The problem is it kicks in when you basically sneeze. This can be tuned out by some of the good tuners. Bama did not have that ability in the past with their "team" of so called tuners. Maybe they can now that they have another new tuner writing tunes but I doubt it. This is one of the reasons you will never see one of their customers cars running a good time.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
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There's your problem. The Boss manifold requires a custom tune and if you're using a canned tune, it may not be dialed in correctly.
So if I get a custom dyno tune, I'll be back running 4.3 0-60 times?


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmach View Post
In the stock tune Ford has it set up so that if the computer senses any clutch slippage torque management kicks in by pulling timing to protect the clutch from doing any damage. The problem is it kicks in when you basically sneeze. This can be tuned out by some of the good tuners. Bama did not have that ability in the past with their "team" of so called tuners. Maybe they can now that they have another new tuner writing tunes but I doubt it. This is one of the reasons you will never see one of their customers cars running a good time.
Wouldn't you feel the clutch management though? I don't feel my car bog down at all. It keeps pulling and doesn't stop, I just think that I lost enough power down low for worse times. At a roll in my power band at 5500 I probably gained a lot.. but from a dig not so much.
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:13 PM   #13
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I'm not sure if you would necessarilly feel it but this is a question for Bama and they're tunes. My car is an auto so I wouldn't know for sure. The Boss Intake works providing you have the correct corresponding mods. I have it and my best is 11.2. But with the autos it needs a pretty loose converter to be effective. Lots of guys with autos install the intake and run slower times and can't figure out why.

And a dyno tune is not necessary on these new cars because of the widebands. Just proper data logging on the street is all that's required.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:07 PM   #14
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The tune is certainly critical, but an easy way to test your theory would be to install the original rims and try again.
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Old 03-17-2015, 11:26 PM   #15
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The tune is certainly critical, but an easy way to test your theory would be to install the original rims and try again.
I'd install the stock wheels if I had tires to go with them.. I could also find out by installing the stock manifold. One of the two.

I just came up with a theory. With the review on the Boss manifold, most rave about the power gains and that they can feel it pull harder. Well if low end power is lost and a small addition is added up top, the margin between the low and high is much greater than the steady increase of the stock manifold. This would give the impression of a large increase in power, even though drag times are higher.

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Old 03-18-2015, 06:06 AM   #16
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So if I get a custom dyno tune, I'll be back running 4.3 0-60 times?
It'll certainly help and the Ford Racing 90mm throttle body would also allow the Boss 302 manifold to strut its stuff.
The Boss manifold essentially lops away the midrange torque bulge of the 5.0 GT between ~3000-5500rpm, flattens the curve, and adds more torque from ~5500+rpm but the difference is only noticeable above 6000rpm. Below ~3000rpm the torque is roughly the same as with the GT manifold. The end result is a higher peak HP number and a lower peak TQ number so to enjoy the benefit of the Boss manifold, you have to keep the engine spinning near the top of the rpm range.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:40 PM   #17
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I figured out that my overall tire diameter is slightly larger than stock. I did the translation and my gear ratio would need to be 3.75 to properly correct the change. Its too cold to do any work on the car today and wouldn't be able to test it anyways because it of the cold. I'll get around to installing the stock manifold later this week to see the difference in performance. After that I'll be ordering headers and a mid pipe and will again do some baseline tests and before bolting on the boss manifold.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:31 PM   #18
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I figured out that my overall tire diameter is slightly larger than stock. I did the translation and my gear ratio would need to be 3.75 to properly correct the change. Its too cold to do any work on the car today and wouldn't be able to test it anyways because it of the cold. I'll get around to installing the stock manifold later this week to see the difference in performance. After that I'll be ordering headers and a mid pipe and will again do some baseline tests and before bolting on the boss manifold.
Did you modify your tune for the correct tire diameter? If the new tires are taller then your speedo is off. Taller tires than stock means you're going faster than what the speedo reads, which would explain the slower times.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:31 PM
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