New Mach owner question
10-25-2012, 08:17 PM
#1
New Mach owner question
So I bought an 04 Mach 1 a week ago, it has an O/R x pipe, Mac mufflers, KN intake. The previous owner told me the owner before him had the engine light "turned off" I didnt ask questions because I knew the light would be on since it doesnt have cats. Light wasnt on the day I drove it home, and last few times ive taken it to town.
Well I got the car out tonight and drove around for a few hours and when I was heading home the engine light came on. It runs fine, idles fine, seems normal. The car has 21k miles.
Would you guys guess just that the car is turning the light on because of the exhaust?
Well I got the car out tonight and drove around for a few hours and when I was heading home the engine light came on. It runs fine, idles fine, seems normal. The car has 21k miles.
Would you guys guess just that the car is turning the light on because of the exhaust?
10-30-2012, 06:06 PM
#3
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,503
So I bought an 04 Mach 1 a week ago, it has an O/R x pipe, Mac mufflers, KN intake. The previous owner told me the owner before him had the engine light "turned off" I didnt ask questions because I knew the light would be on since it doesnt have cats. Light wasnt on the day I drove it home, and last few times ive taken it to town.
Well I got the car out tonight and drove around for a few hours and when I was heading home the engine light came on. It runs fine, idles fine, seems normal. The car has 21k miles.
Would you guys guess just that the car is turning the light on because of the exhaust?
Well I got the car out tonight and drove around for a few hours and when I was heading home the engine light came on. It runs fine, idles fine, seems normal. The car has 21k miles.
Would you guys guess just that the car is turning the light on because of the exhaust?
come on man, you've done this to the freaking top 5 threads going in this section alone. Stop wasting people's time.
11-01-2012, 05:51 PM
#5
yes it's because of the no cats. You might want to get a tuner so you can clear the malfunction code so that in the event your car senses something wrong with something else you'll know the MIL isn't just for the exhaust. Or you could just get some of those nice plug-in MIL eliminators.
come on man, you've done this to the freaking top 5 threads going in this section alone. Stop wasting people's time.
come on man, you've done this to the freaking top 5 threads going in this section alone. Stop wasting people's time.
Thanks for the help. This section is just dead. Id probably get more help on a Honda forum about the car.
02-13-2013, 10:38 PM
#6
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 545
I've NEVER seen an '04-'04 Mach 1 engine light caused by an intake, including the infamous K&N Mach 1 application. I say infamous because many Mach 1 owners reported stalling problems with the K&N system. I'm running OEM cats on my Mach 1, so I don't have any no cat experience but have seen several cars that required plug in MIL eliminators to get rid of the engine light.
The K&N intake system eliminated a MAF screen in the original set up and this caused problems, but NO engine light. Here's what Brian Young, Ford calibration engineer on the Mach 1) wrote:
Should I keep the mass airflow meter screen on?
Actually the screen is there for a reason - hence the stalls experienced with removing it. The screen is actually there to help remove the turbulence coming in through the upstream inlet. It does a rough job of "straightening" the airflow so that the air meter element will read an accurate amount of airflow. With swirls and backflows over the element, an incorrect air mass reading will be measured.
Sometimes it will be too high (which will result in overfueling and a closing of the idle speed control valve) other times too low (and thus too little fueling). These measurement errors will be most pronounced (larger percentage) at low total air mass readings - like decels and idles where you will be ingesting say <1 pound per minute of air. This is attributed to the stalls people are finding. (Note: we idle at roughly 0.7 pounds per minute of airflow while WOT @ 7000 will be 34 pounds per minute for comparison).
I was likewise disturbed that the K&N did not include the screen install in their instructions. I too removed the original rubber gasket around the screen and sandwiched it between the K&N gaskets.
As far as disconnecting the battery to help the car learn better, that is a common misnomer. The idle speed control and fuel control has adaptive learning enabled under set conditions. For instance, idle speed adaptive KAM control only occurs at base idle (704 RPM for a M/T) which means you have to be nearly fully warmed up, not purging the fuel canister, etc. This occurs whether or not you had disconnected the battery beforehand.
It is a toss up, between using your existing adaptive air and fuel KAM values (a multiplier that can be > or < 1.0; 1.0 being ideal) as a starting point or going back to all 1.000000's correction after a battery disconnect. I prefer to leave it alone as you will be invariably closer starting out with the learned KAMs for your overall car than 1's. Either way will work out fine.
V8's inherently are not susceptible to backflow regions unlike 4 cylinders since V8’s intake pulses are at shorter intervals so that reduces the chance of measurement error some.
Now the turbulence issue I mentioned before can rear its head. It is a combination of what air inlet hardware is on the car - K&N, a heavily oiled K&N (which coats the air meter element), or other intake system components.
Furthermore, stalling issues result from a stack up of errors. If you happen to get a low spec flow ISC (Idle Speed Control) valve and push the adaptive control out too far then you will be more prone to stalling with the screen removed. That is why some people have changed an ISC valve and have not stalled. However that is expensive to try overall.
The air meter transfer function in the calibration is flowed with the entire air inlet system intact – from the silencer tube to the throttle body. It is even positioned on the flow stand in the exact orientation as in the car. Changing the tube between the air meter and t-body can significantly affect the overall transfer function resulting in measurement errors. The basic rule of thumb is that any change within three air meter diameters (before and after the air meter) can have an impact on the transfer function.
Regarding stalls with K&N's, I recall 25% of a survey said they have had stalling issues occur after adding the K&N aircharger. If Ford had 25% stalling issues with a K&N type design with no screen with one model in the field, that would be very bad - for safety and cost.
Other issues can affect the stall potential with this system too. Poor seals after the air meter result in unmeasured air which is an issue - again mainly at low flows.
Keep the screen out if you do not have problems - it is completely your choice. Try it back in if you do for the reasons given here.
My C&L intake was designed properly to work without a MAF screen and has been performing flawlessly since 2004. The K&N was just a wonky design. That said, any reputable tuner will tell you a Mach 1 won't benefit from an aftermarket intake until you go over 450 -500 hp.
The K&N intake system eliminated a MAF screen in the original set up and this caused problems, but NO engine light. Here's what Brian Young, Ford calibration engineer on the Mach 1) wrote:
Should I keep the mass airflow meter screen on?
Actually the screen is there for a reason - hence the stalls experienced with removing it. The screen is actually there to help remove the turbulence coming in through the upstream inlet. It does a rough job of "straightening" the airflow so that the air meter element will read an accurate amount of airflow. With swirls and backflows over the element, an incorrect air mass reading will be measured.
Sometimes it will be too high (which will result in overfueling and a closing of the idle speed control valve) other times too low (and thus too little fueling). These measurement errors will be most pronounced (larger percentage) at low total air mass readings - like decels and idles where you will be ingesting say <1 pound per minute of air. This is attributed to the stalls people are finding. (Note: we idle at roughly 0.7 pounds per minute of airflow while WOT @ 7000 will be 34 pounds per minute for comparison).
I was likewise disturbed that the K&N did not include the screen install in their instructions. I too removed the original rubber gasket around the screen and sandwiched it between the K&N gaskets.
As far as disconnecting the battery to help the car learn better, that is a common misnomer. The idle speed control and fuel control has adaptive learning enabled under set conditions. For instance, idle speed adaptive KAM control only occurs at base idle (704 RPM for a M/T) which means you have to be nearly fully warmed up, not purging the fuel canister, etc. This occurs whether or not you had disconnected the battery beforehand.
It is a toss up, between using your existing adaptive air and fuel KAM values (a multiplier that can be > or < 1.0; 1.0 being ideal) as a starting point or going back to all 1.000000's correction after a battery disconnect. I prefer to leave it alone as you will be invariably closer starting out with the learned KAMs for your overall car than 1's. Either way will work out fine.
V8's inherently are not susceptible to backflow regions unlike 4 cylinders since V8’s intake pulses are at shorter intervals so that reduces the chance of measurement error some.
Now the turbulence issue I mentioned before can rear its head. It is a combination of what air inlet hardware is on the car - K&N, a heavily oiled K&N (which coats the air meter element), or other intake system components.
Furthermore, stalling issues result from a stack up of errors. If you happen to get a low spec flow ISC (Idle Speed Control) valve and push the adaptive control out too far then you will be more prone to stalling with the screen removed. That is why some people have changed an ISC valve and have not stalled. However that is expensive to try overall.
The air meter transfer function in the calibration is flowed with the entire air inlet system intact – from the silencer tube to the throttle body. It is even positioned on the flow stand in the exact orientation as in the car. Changing the tube between the air meter and t-body can significantly affect the overall transfer function resulting in measurement errors. The basic rule of thumb is that any change within three air meter diameters (before and after the air meter) can have an impact on the transfer function.
Regarding stalls with K&N's, I recall 25% of a survey said they have had stalling issues occur after adding the K&N aircharger. If Ford had 25% stalling issues with a K&N type design with no screen with one model in the field, that would be very bad - for safety and cost.
Other issues can affect the stall potential with this system too. Poor seals after the air meter result in unmeasured air which is an issue - again mainly at low flows.
Keep the screen out if you do not have problems - it is completely your choice. Try it back in if you do for the reasons given here.
My C&L intake was designed properly to work without a MAF screen and has been performing flawlessly since 2004. The K&N was just a wonky design. That said, any reputable tuner will tell you a Mach 1 won't benefit from an aftermarket intake until you go over 450 -500 hp.
