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Old 05-16-2006, 11:44 AM   #11
V8Cody
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More

So..let me get this straight. You are comparing a 2005/2006 Mustang GT to a 2008 (?) Camaro or Challenger.... How can you do that? You are comparing a car that is already IN production vs. 2 cars that are NOT in production. DUMB

Thats like saying my car in 20 years is going to beat your car right now!!!!!
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More

Ok guys......lay off alittle....dang did everyone get up on the wrong side of the bed.......think he was just doing alittle FYI .....the revival of the Muscle Car is pretty interesting to alot of us who like American Muscle.....and alot of people cannot spell for alot of reasons......man you guys must be PMS today.......Ford started the trend so you know others would follow...
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:12 PM   #13
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More

Well I meant to say PMSing.......don't jump me over a small mistake.....
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:19 PM   #14
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More


Quote:
ORIGINAL: stangmomasc

Ok guys......lay off alittle....dang did everyone get up on the wrong side of the bed.......think he was just doing alittle FYI .....the revival of the Muscle Car is pretty interesting to alot of us who like American Muscle.....and alot of people cannot spell for alot of reasons......man you guys must be PMS today.......Ford started the trend so you know others would follow...
Thanks you, someone actually understands and doesnt go ****in crazy. and what i am comparing is cars that will match up, mustangs are not going to change for a while, the only thing that ford has will be their new engines, and the mach 1. Ford withdrew their statment on their engine plans. The mach as far as anyone knows still has no plan. yet they do have the prototype. so FU guys.
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Old 05-16-2006, 05:25 PM   #15
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More

I don't know, I've heard rumors that the standard engines are going to go up significantly in power in 2008 or 9. Supposedly the next V6 will go up to 260 hp, and from what I've heard that should be pretty close to the V6s that will go into the Camaro and Challenger. As for the next V8s, I wouldn't be surprised to see them bumped up to 380 or so. In the end it's all speculation, but it is interesting to think about and I think that Ford won't be lagging by much if at all in terms of horses by the time the Camaro and Challenger come to market.

I know a lot of people had knee-jerk reactions, but what do you expect when you post something saying that Ford won't be able to compete against a pair of cars that aren't even out yet? Personally I'm quite excited by the Challenger concept, and I hope they don't change a thing about the external appearance.

It'll be interesting to see how things play out in this new pony car revival era - but until the cars actually start production, there are no real guarantees they'll be anything but good ideas, and you have to wonder how they'll keep costs down if their cars are as vastly superior as you (04Mach1DD) claim. The new Mustang has been criticized for lacking some of the minor touches other cars in its price range have, what corners will be cut by MoPar and GM? Or will they simply find a way to do things differently, and pass the savings on to the consumers? Basically, what I'm saying is that while it's exciting to hear that they're moving forward on these projects, there's a lot of unanswered questions that can't really be answered until the cars are being built, so I wouldn't declare Ford's defeat just yet.

Also, remember that Ford was smart enough to come out with their retro Mustang first - they might just be smart enough not to rest on their laurels now that competition is waiting in the wings.
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Old 05-16-2006, 08:50 PM   #16
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More

I've already commented on this topic in various other threads......so here is a paste of my commentary (yea, I hate retyping a lengthy opinion)

I agree that GM and Dodge would have to price their new pony cars right around or at least close to the Mustang. Now, for the Challenger......it may be possible if Dodge goes with their current car trim levels. An entry level V6 model pricing in the high teens, maybe low 20's........a 340-355ish hp 5.7 Hemi powered RT model pricing probably in the high 20's or close to 30........and a 6.1 Hemi SRT version making 420-430hp pricing in the high 30's. I really think the Challenger RT, even if a few thousand more, could still compete rather well with the Mustang GT. Of course, this all depends on whether Dodge brings the Challenger out in a form identical or close to its concept version.

GM's new Camaro, however, could see problems if the big wigs get too gungho about beating the Mustang in the performance arena again. I still have a hard time with the fact that they want to make the Z28 (by all rights the entry level V8 trim of the Camaro badge) an LS2 powered 400hp car. Sorry, but GM will lose serious money per unit sold if they think they can price that car right alongside the Challenger RT.........let alone the Mustang GT. Of course, this is assuming they don't build a car that's mostly plastic and fiberglass and has crappy accomodations to save the costs pushed up by the LS2 powerplant. And yea, obviously the LS2 is gonna push up the price on final product. Anyone who doesn't think so should explain to me why the GTO priced out at $35K instead of $25K or $30. And keep in mind......the GTO to this date, I believe, is the cheapest 400hp performance coupe on the market anywhere. JMO, but an LS2 powered Z28 will MSRP in the low 30's.......say, 32 to 34K...at the least. Factor in the dealer markups (which there will be if there's any decent amount of interest in the new Camaro) and I don't see the Camaro giving the Mustang a run for it's money over the long haul. This is all assuming, of course, that GM makes the entry level V8 Camaro an LS2 powered one.

Personally, I think GM needs to make the new Camaro as follows: an entry level V6 model (of course), a V8 powered Z28 model making 350-380hp, and an LS2 powered SS model making 430-460hp. If they get greedier than this.......the Camaro won't stay profitable for long. The modern car market is just too brutal, and the margin for error with reintroducing the Camaro name plate is just about nil.

But whatever way Dodge and Chevy go......Ford has already said that it plans to rework the Mustang in the 2009-2010year models. Who is to say that if the Challenger and Camaro leap-frog over the Mustang in the performance arena in 08/09 that Ford won't leap-frog right back over them the following year with a better performing Mustang? You have to keep in mind that Dodge and GM are just getting back into this segment, Ford has been here for nearly 2 years and is poising to make a fresh step even further forward.

Just remember, the name of the game in the modern muscle car revival market is "bang for the buck" + overall aesthetic and quality appeal. It's the reason the redesigned mustang has become so popular, and it's something that GM and Dodge have to perfectly integrate into their new cars if they want a serious shot at the top sales in this segment.
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So technically the power to money ratio is still much better with the Camaro...
I don't think they correct times at the 1320 for that......
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Old 05-17-2006, 03:46 AM   #17
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More


Quote:
ORIGINAL: trevman2

I yam not reeding yur post anymor. The mispeelings confus me. And peepel wunder why owr collages suck?

P.S.-spellings above done on purpose
Yeah seriously man. Put down the coffee, compose your thoughts, type them, then PROOFREAD them, then submit them. Admittedly bad speller or not, anyone will tell you (and you've probably seen it for yourself so far) that typos and grammatical errors tend to DISCREDIT one's written message.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:47 PM   #18
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More

http://www.newagemusclecars.com/inde...p2_articleid=6
"According to sources at Collins & Aikman though, the green light has already been given for the Challenger and they are working as a supplier to bring the iconic nameplate back for the 2008.5 model year." Screw you guys, as soon as i said somthing that frightened you, ya just get pissed off.

"about the challenger. It plans to be released in 2008, and when i say "plans" i mean it WILL."

and sorry, but i dont really care if my spelling is perfect or not.

by the way there will be 3 engines i belive. a 3.5l HO, a 5.7l hemi, and the mighty 6.1l hemi
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:50 PM   #19
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More


Quote:
ORIGINAL: 04Mach1DD



"about the challenger. It plans to be released in 2008, and when i say "plans" i mean it WILL."

and sorry, but i dont really care if my spelling is perfect or not.

by the way there will be 3 engines i belive. a 3.5l HO, a 5.7l hemi, and the mighty 6.1l hemi
Good, my car needs some decent competition
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So technically the power to money ratio is still much better with the Camaro...
I don't think they correct times at the 1320 for that......
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:42 AM   #20
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Default RE: Camaro/Challenger Concept No-More

maybe its just me but im already tired of the challenger look. its just way to retro. yes the new stang and soon to be camaro have retro styling, but they also bring a lot more modern twist to them. if u look at the 05/06 stang, they have just as much in common with 99-04 stang as late 60s. just think maybe the retro fad will have played out by then, or few years after.
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:42 AM
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