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Old 06-29-2011, 07:56 AM   #1
starbai
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Default To buy hail damaged, or not to buy hail damaged, that is the question...

Hey folks,

My parents are looking at two new, Jag XJL's. Lets try to keep the discussion away from whether or not this is the best option for the money, they love the look of them and have decided this is what they want to replace their 06 750li.

car 1:
Is going for about $63,000 with about $4000 (quoted by a VERY GOOD reputable (if not sometimes on the expensive) body shop that we've used before) of HAIL damage. - Total est. cost is about $67,000 as a result.

The car is NOT at a Jaguar dealership, it was sold to a dealer that deals in wrecked cars, as a result I do believe you'd consider this used, despite it only having 29mi

The car only has 29 miles on it, and supposedly has a clean title with no mention of damage on it.

It isn't their first choice in color, but they DO like it a lot and they're generally not picky people when it comes to color as long as its not on their 'ugly' list (read: maroon and beige champagne)

This car does have FULL factory warranty and maintenance.

car 2:
Is a demo car at an actual Jag dealer. It currently has ~2500 miles on it. The dealer is "willing" to go invoice, which is roughly $73,500. The dealer is a bit of a drive away so we haven't gone in to actually discuss numbers. All dealing so far has been done over the phone. Full warranty, brand new car, and is the exact color combination they wanted.


So assuming for this discussion, $73,500 is the best we can get the second option for, and $67,000 (fixed) is the best we can get the 1st option for... what is ultimately the best buy? I guess while we're at it, also a side question, is invoice really the best we can do on a car with ~2500 miles on it? What would be a fair undercut of that, if any? I'm pretty sure with the right haggling we could get 'invoice' on a non-demo car... but thats just speculation as I have no idea how in demand XJL's are in retiree-filled south fla.

I will have to let them determine if they're budget can go that far as option 2, but the main question is since there is nothing on title for the hail damaged car, and we are more than comfortable that the body shop we have in mind will do an excellent job on the car, what do we really have to lose by going for the 1st option?

I guess I ultimately need to know, how badly is a resale value effected by 'hail damage' since its apparently has a clean title? I've been reading that despite it being a clean title, that the hail damage will STILL appear on a car fax, and that the resale value can be GREATLY affected by the very mention of this despite the 'clean title'


If we're talking a $10,000 or more drop only beacuse of the hail damage, then perhaps this isn't such a great idea and I should advise them to not pick up the damaged XJ? - They usually only keep a car 3-4 years max, so resale value is at least somewhat relevant. It is very unlikely that they would own either long enough for the values to 'even out' due to age/mileage.

As far as repairs, the rear glass will have to be replaced. Roof, hood, rear bumper, and trunk all need to be 'worked on' - though I do not know if the estimate includes 'new' parts or fixing the existing. Again the body shop is very reputable so I highly doubt they're just going to be bondo-ing the whole car and respraying it... I haven't spoken to them, my father has, and I dont have the details on the $4000 job. For the sake of the discussion, lets just assume its going to be repaired to as perfect as non-factory can be and the $4000 job is necessary/worth it.

Thanks for the opinion fellahs.
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Last edited by starbai; 06-29-2011 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:20 AM   #2
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Well, I will tell you this, when we had a hail storm some used dealers were fixing the cars and not telling folks they were hail cars and they weren't reported to Carfax, so no decrease in value because there were no reported claims. So, if your folks pay $4k out of pocket to fix it, then carfax wont know and it would be up to your folks whether or not they disclose that when they go to trade it in or sell it a few years down the road. Hail cars are fine, it is all cosmetic damage, so there are no worries there. Clean title just means it wasn't a total loss. Just ask the dealer if it shows on a carfax, if yes, I probably would walk away. But its not my money.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:34 AM   #3
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Well, I will tell you this, when we had a hail storm some used dealers were fixing the cars and not telling folks they were hail cars and they weren't reported to Carfax, so no decrease in value because there were no reported claims. So, if your folks pay $4k out of pocket to fix it, then carfax wont know and it would be up to your folks whether or not they disclose that when they go to trade it in or sell it a few years down the road. Hail cars are fine, it is all cosmetic damage, so there are no worries there. Clean title just means it wasn't a total loss. Just ask the dealer if it shows on a carfax, if yes, I probably would walk away. But its not my money.
They usually dont care too much about color unless its one of the ones they absolutely hate (maroon or champagne/beige) so I dont think that will swing their decision much.

They will be paying out of pocket to fix it and it will not be part of the financed cost of the car.

You make a very good point about the car fax and I WILL look that up MYSELF vs just hoping this dealer tells us the truth about whether or not it shows up.

Either way, wont non-factory paint on several body parts (and a replaced hood/trunk) decrease resale value?

At this point, there's about a $6500 difference in the two cars, and ultimately the question is how much (and I know we can't know this FOR SURE) speculatively speaking, of a difference the body work on this damaged car will hurt resale IF it shows up on carfax? If it doesn't? -

Given that it was sold to this dealership that is known as a dealer that deals with damaged/salvaged vehicles, I'd be surprised if it wasn't on the report.

Either way, do we think future resale value, 3 years from now will be effected by ~$6500 or more on this damaged vehicle?
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:11 AM   #4
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Fixed hail damage shouldn't decrease the value I'd think. Like said before, its all cosmetic. It's not like the car was in an accident. And the demo car should go for below invoice imo. They'll say they need to make a profit but they got 2500 miles of test drives out of it. They should go down at least a grand
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:27 AM   #5
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Fixed hail damage shouldn't decrease the value I'd think. Like said before, its all cosmetic. It's not like the car was in an accident. And the demo car should go for below invoice imo. They'll say they need to make a profit but they got 2500 miles of test drives out of it. They should go down at least a grand
The car was apparently only driven by the owner of the dealership. Of course there is no way to confirm this. I am fairly confident that I can get them to go down at LEAST another grand... even still we're talking about a $5500 difference vs a $6500 difference and the ultimate question is whether or not the depreciation will go down that much simply due to hail damage.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:36 AM   #6
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I wish hail would damage the exterior of my brothers car, then he could get a completely new paintjob!

Figure out if the hail damage will be reported, if not, it's the best deal ever.

It's like buying any piece o electronics that's heavily discounted because of "cosmetic flaws"... Except this will be fixed.

Pass on the other. If you tried selling a car and said, "I'm not lowering the price despite those 2500 miles" you'd get laughed At.

And this is what you should do to them
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:38 AM   #7
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I would consider a car with 2500 miles on it a used car. Therefore it should definitely go below invoice IMO. They got their use out of it. I would probably go with the hail damage one personally assuming it can get fixed properly and not show up on a report.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #8
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I'm inclined to go for the damaged one too if it doesn't show up on the car fax. right now the title is definitly clean but that doesn't mean it wont show up on the car fax in a few months, from what I understand, it takes a few months for things to hit the report.

If they pull the trigger on it, invest in the repairs, then it STILL shows up, they're screwed.

I dont how to confirm that it will not show up on the carfax, and to be SURE OF IT. I wonder if that 'car fax' guarantee would be enforceable if we pull it now and it doesn't show up now but shows up later?
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:02 AM   #9
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I wouldn't even consider the 2,500 mile car unless they sold it for like 70,000

Interesting, i just checked auto trader, there are a 3 XJL's on there with hail damage for about 63,000. I see one with 29 miles on it, must be the one your parents are looking at.

To me it's a silly question, no doubt buy the one with the hail damage. Someone has to report the repair for it to show up. That would be the place you take it for repair, or the insurance company(typically this), if you are paying for it yourself and the repair guy said he isn't reporting it, then you know you'll be in the clear. it's not like there is any magic way of it suddenly appearing. Also, there are many systems that track accident data. Insurance companies also pull from a database that isn't carfax that shows claim history, but again, that is claim history, not carfax. It will also show different registratoin and title info, salvage auctions...
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:10 AM   #10
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I wouldn't even consider the 2,500 mile car unless they sold it for like 70,000

Interesting, i just checked auto trader, there are a 3 XJL's on there with hail damage for about 63,000. I see one with 29 miles on it, must be the one your parents are looking at.

To me it's a silly question, no doubt buy the one with the hail damage. Someone has to report the repair for it to show up. That would be the place you take it for repair, or the insurance company(typically this), if you are paying for it yourself and the repair guy said he isn't reporting it, then you know you'll be in the clear. it's not like there is any magic way of it suddenly appearing. Also, there are many systems that track accident data. Insurance companies also pull from a database that isn't carfax that shows claim history, but again, that is claim history, not carfax. It will also show different registratoin and title info, salvage auctions.. but like it says in the wikipedia, they only get info from 22 states, I dont' know if florida is one of those or not.
You're probably looking at the same ones we are... 2 of those 3 are actually already sold. So that is the reason we're trying to figure out this out and make a decision probably by the end of the day.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:10 AM
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