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Has Ford lost there minds?

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Old 04-08-2012, 06:09 AM   #21
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Today’s economy is tough, there’s no doubt about that. I’m not sure what the new Mustang GT demographic is but for myself, very close to 40, I was in high school when the 93 5.0 GT came out and I would have just about given anything for one. Except money that is I was broke. Now at almost 40 I’m doing okay and although costly I couldn’t resist. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that Ford released the new 5.0. It coincides with my age bracket and Ford hopes nostalgia will get us in the showroom.

In my area I don’t see a lot of new 5.0’s and I live in a major metropolitan area. I think it comes down to selling just enough of these cars at ridiculous prices and then showing prospective buys it’s the going rate. If you want a new Mustang you’re probably already sold, the trending just makes you feel better about your purchase.

That's my 2cents
Well said, I'm just about 37 myself, so I can totally relate to the words above. I also believe when the 05 came out, the "retro" look also hit some of the older folks who had mustangs in the 60's/70's. Their marketing is def top notch.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:46 AM   #22
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I think a lot of the sticker shock on the new GTs is the fact they come with more options than earlier S197s did.

They didn't have the Track Pack with Brembo brakes and 19" wheels (sold at cost by Ford), back-up Camera, Navigation, Bluetooth, etc.

Those packages easily tack on several grand! That being said, the track pack is worth it, and cheaper than modding something similar aftermarket. Ford added that option at cost, meaning they are not making money on it.

But if you are careful with your options, you can find good deals out there, especially on 2012s. I worked out a deal for my buddy, the MSRP was $34,500, he got it for $29,800. Which was a GT Premium with Manual, no Track Pack or Navigation. That includes over 400hp! Other than the Camaro, what other car has this kind of power for that price while still getting 27 mpg highway?

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Old 04-08-2012, 08:21 AM   #23
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I don't know if anybody has mentioned this yet but Ford has probably edged the price up as much as they have because even at the new higher cost, it's still cheaper than it's main competitors, the Camaro and the Challenger, but they are still getting too expensive for the average person anymore. Thinking to the future when the next gen Mustang comes out, I doubt I will be able to afford one unless the car I trade holds it's value better than expected. The best thing to do is to avoid the options that don't give you a return when you trade in 3 years later (if you're like me and trade that frequently) Most extra cost options are kind of like after market mods, they don't add to the trade in value of your car.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:53 AM   #24
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So check it out. I hear what everyone is saying about how 40k is high...well yes it is. So I went a checked out what's supposed to be one of the cheapest sports (and Im using that term loosely here....) cars around. The Hyundai Genesis coupe. New, these are starting at 29k in the Denver area. 29,000 for a POS.

You can say what you want about Ford, but Hyundai's are pieces of junk. My sister keeps buying them saying what great cars they are. She's on her third one in about 10 years. Heck, she had a timing belt go out just before 50k miles. That's crazy. They rust out fast, squeek, groan, the cheapest build quality around.

Ford is finally listening to the critics and it's drivers. We have all complained as enthusiasts for years about the build quality and so when Ford starts to listen, puts brushed aluminum, LED sequential turn signals, leather, etc...in these cars that is the same or better than aftermarket, we're going to complain about it?

I say quit complaining about it. Yes, they are more and you are getting more bang for your buck almost every 2 years now. It's still far more affordable and equitable than the competition.

If you can't afford the new mustang, that is not Ford's fault. You need to stop shopping for a new car and start shopping for a new job if you're not getting paid enough because the size of your paycheck. Your boss and his bosses sure ain't got no problem buying the new Mustang or 60" OLED TV's.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:07 AM   #25
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You need to stop shopping for a new car and start shopping for a new job if you're not getting paid enough
Yeah no problem, because there are tons of good paying jobs everywhere now <---This would be in sarcasm font if there was such a thing.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:11 AM   #26
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I bought a 2010 and it was affordable at that time, but like others they priced the current models out of my price range. I'm not saying they aren't worth it, but at those prices, I can start looking at used cars that may have more upside for the same $... And that includes other makes.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:19 AM   #27
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Yeah no problem, because there are tons of good paying jobs everywhere now <---This would be in sarcasm font if there was such a thing.
I work in IT in Denver. I made the mistake of putting my resume on Monster on a Friday morning. My phone would not quit ringing to the point where I had to turn it off that afternoon.

My message is this. You don't have to be a victim of circumstance. Every day we make a choice to go to the same job in the same career field, etc...and then blame the economy or something else that's beyond our control. Well, I don't believe it. I've had 3 careers. First was a DJ on an FM station, second was a music teacher, third was a IT systems engineer. I landed on IT because I was tired of being broke, but I did enjoy the other jobs better.

If you're looking for a job, get into IT and move to Denver. You will never want for work in this town (IT jobless rate here is 2.4%)
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:40 AM   #28
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Yeah no problem, because there are tons of good paying jobs everywhere now <---This would be in sarcasm font if there was such a thing.
Yea considering I been out of school for almost a year and still cant find something. This economy sucks
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:02 AM   #29
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I can't wait to see what Ford does for 2015 anniversary. I hope the cars get lighter, stay as fast, have automatic adjustment for suspension performance modes and real launch and traction control settings. Maybe the GT500 will actually come with 305 width tires in rear and 275 up front, and have IRS and magnetic ride control technology stolen from the Russians(GM). Erik
Why don't you buy a Camaro? It has everything except for the lighter weight. But that is why the Camaro has the extra weightt - from having the IRS, larger 20s, etc...
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:35 AM   #30
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Yes they are very highly priced for what they are however when you break things down suddenly you can begin to see where ford is coming from. Let's look at some numbers...

A 95 mustang gt sold for around $15000 with modest options. It came with a 215 bhp 4.9l engine. On a scale of 1-10 I'd have to rate it as such based on modern standards:
Hp Performance - 5
Appearance - 6
Suspension/braking - 5
Mod potential - 10

A 05 mustang gt sold for around 25k with good options. It came with 300 bhp engine. I'd have to rate the 05 as such:

Hp Performance - 7
Appearance - 8
Suspension/braking - 7
Mod potential - 6

The 2011 mustang gr sells for 35k with great options and comes with the ohc 4.9l engine. Sounds like the 95 except for one thing, it has 410 bhp.
Hp performance - 8.5
Appearance - 8
Suspension/braking - 7
Mod potential - 4

So what do you get for 20,000 over what was a then new 95 4.9l vs a 2011 4.9l?
Better sound system
Much better handeling
Better braking
Better control under acceleration
190 more hp
Better looks
Nicer interior components
More user friendly parts and electronics
2-5 more mpg

Now you do loose a lot of aftermarket capabilities with the newer car but look at it like this to make a 95 mustang have all of the things listed above is...well impossible unless you swap out to a 2011 drivetrain. And even then you won't handle the same track worthiness.

In a nut shell compared to a 95 mustan a 2011 mustang is a luxery Super car compared to a 95.

So is ford overcharging, yes they are, but are they completely jacking us over, not really when you break it down over time what you got from generation to generation. Expect more of the same, new mustangs will continue to be just out of reach for the everyday person but older used models will continue to live on and live strong in the hands of others.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by jthorn9 View Post
Yes they are very highly priced for what they are however when you break things down suddenly you can begin to see where ford is coming from. Let's look at some numbers...

A 95 mustang gt sold for around $15000 with modest options. It came with a 215 bhp 4.9l engine. On a scale of 1-10 I'd have to rate it as such based on modern standards:
Hp Performance - 5
Appearance - 6
Suspension/braking - 5
Mod potential - 10

A 05 mustang gt sold for around 25k with good options. It came with 300 bhp engine. I'd have to rate the 05 as such:

Hp Performance - 7
Appearance - 8
Suspension/braking - 7
Mod potential - 6

The 2011 mustang gr sells for 35k with great options and comes with the ohc 4.9l engine. Sounds like the 95 except for one thing, it has 410 bhp.
Hp performance - 8.5
Appearance - 8
Suspension/braking - 7
Mod potential - 4

So what do you get for 20,000 over what was a then new 95 4.9l vs a 2011 4.9l?
Better sound system
Much better handeling
Better braking
Better control under acceleration
190 more hp
Better looks
Nicer interior components
More user friendly parts and electronics
2-5 more mpg

Now you do loose a lot of aftermarket capabilities with the newer car but look at it like this to make a 95 mustang have all of the things listed above is...well impossible unless you swap out to a 2011 drivetrain. And even then you won't handle the same track worthiness.

In a nut shell compared to a 95 mustan a 2011 mustang is a luxery Super car compared to a 95.

So is ford overcharging, yes they are, but are they completely jacking us over, not really when you break it down over time what you got from generation to generation. Expect more of the same, new mustangs will continue to be just out of reach for the everyday person but older used models will continue to live on and live strong in the hands of others.
Excellent observations and this I can agree with that the GT will be out of reach...but what about the 2013 V6. I have located a V6 base model for 24k in Denver. Is that number too high for the everyday person?
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:07 AM   #32
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54% of Mustang produced in '11 were V6, 39% were GT's and the remainder (7%) were GT500's. I thought the usually the percentage of V6 to other models was higher in the past. In the end though, this mirrors the distribution of wealth somewhat. Likely Roush, Saleen, Shelby...if they are buying from the GT pool, that could account for the higher percentage as the boutique shops are buying base models to build upon. Still means that the V6 is the strong seller and where Ford is making probably a higher profit margin. Perhaps some bean counter at corporate said, you know they might complain, but they'll still buy it and we can increase our margin.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #33
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24 k is not out of reach for your average middle class person. In a nut shell to be able to buy a new mustang v6 you need a yearly income of around 30-35k and low bills. So what does that mean...most people under 25 will not own one, 26-30 will struggle, 30 and over will likely be ok usually due to marriage and dual incomes.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:09 AM   #34
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Wow, some incredibly bad information floating around...

wcgman - Nothing personal... but the thread isn't about finding a decent paying job. It's about how Ford justifies their jacked-up prices and putting the Mustang V8 out of reach for the every day man; what made it a popular choice in the first place. The S197 launched and was made available in GT format for around $25k. That was 7 years ago and Ford for the most part is still using the same design and everything with a little tweak here or there, so they've already made their return on investment and are milking it for everything they can (and more so with the increased prices).

SD 197 - Options sold at cost? I highly doubt Ford is going around buying stuff at cost. The brembo kit is costing Ford probably less than 1/4 of the price they are selling it for. That is business.

jthorn9 - Lastly... your breakdown is pointless. You don't have to go way back to 95 to compare and justify what ford has done. All you simply have to go back to is 2004. Introduction of the S197. Sure, there are a few more bells and whistles, which are OPTIONS. Though how do you justify the $25k '05 to the $35k '13 in your post? The new engine? Transmission? Oh... because I forgot... new parts means the old parts equate to nothing? The new engine and transmission can be had for around the same as the old engine and transmission, so in reality we're still at the $25k mark. So help make up for that $10k.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:12 AM   #35
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Put it this way my wife (24) and I (36) have a combined income of around 100,000 a year and we both bought used cars. Why you ask? Cause being a finance person I know that cars are terrible investments and new cars, the worst. I bought both of our cars after a lease. My car a 3 year lease. Hers a 6 month lease to hertz and saved a ton. The buying power of getting a barely used car over new saved us a ton. Sure I could easily have bought a Shelby but the investment vs long term value is heavily lopsided.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #36
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That 10k is easy to make up for, how much does it cost to make an 05-10 have the same performance levels as a 11+ your answer.....$5000-10000 depending on how extend you go and how safe you play it.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:24 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Menace View Post
Wow, some incredibly bad information floating around...

wcgman - Nothing personal... but the thread isn't about finding a decent paying job. It's about how Ford justifies their jacked-up prices and putting the Mustang V8 out of reach for the every day man; what made it a popular choice in the first place. The S197 launched and was made available in GT format for around $25k. That was 7 years ago and Ford for the most part is still using the same design and everything with a little tweak here or there, so they've already made their return on investment and are milking it for everything they can (and more so with the increased prices).

SD 197 - Options sold at cost? I highly doubt Ford is going around buying stuff at cost. The brembo kit is costing Ford probably less than 1/4 of the price they are selling it for. That is business.

jthorn9 - Lastly... your breakdown is pointless. You don't have to go way back to 95 to compare and justify what ford has done. All you simply have to go back to is 2004. Introduction of the S197. Sure, there are a few more bells and whistles, which are OPTIONS. Though how do you justify the $25k '05 to the $35k '13 in your post? The new engine? Transmission? Oh... because I forgot... new parts means the old parts equate to nothing? The new engine and transmission can be had for around the same as the old engine and transmission, so in reality we're still at the $25k mark. So help make up for that $10k.
We'll have to agree to disagree on some of your points (interestingly enough...not really on what you said referring to my commentary) , but you are right that I did take it off onto a tangent that wasnt necessary. The way I look at life is if I want something, I'm going to work for it. In 1992 I was making a measly 11k a year as a bachelor. In 1997 my wife and mine combined income was a measly 24k a year. 2012 our combined income is over 165k a year. We both work our buns off for more toys. We may have been envious in the past of other's good fortunes but we never blamed anyone for our inability to get what we desired. So maybe the guys at Ford want more toys too, so they are going to get it one way or another, right? I also completely agree with you on the comment about selling at cost. They are in the business of making money...not giving stuff away for no profit. As for the rest...meh...thats where the agree to disagree comes in.

I will say this. I would consider paying 40k for a GT but it better have every bell and whistle and pleasure my nether regions for that kind of money. I don't want to have to put a single dime into an aftermarket part at that cost.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:12 PM   #38
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I paid $40k for mine. Well, $38k. Sticker was $42.7k.

It's worth every penny.

Ten years ago you couldn't get 400hp for less than $75k, and that's before you factor inflation.
2003 cobra stickered around $33k
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:26 PM   #39
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The upper 30's - $40's GTs have the nav and electronic packages... something that wasn't available until recently and certainly not available 10 - 15 years ago...
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:43 PM   #40
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Ford is not making money on the brembo package on the 2012's. No way. The whole package (brembos, 19's, upgraded suspension) is 1700 dollars. Go to tire rack and look at the cost of one Pirelli pzero in 255/40/19. Like $360 a pop.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:43 PM
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