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Old 12-02-2013, 08:08 PM   #41
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The big take away from that should be that if you have whopper flopper skills then you deserve whopper flopper pay.

Their "demand" that they be paid $15.00 and hour is absurd on the face of it.

It really galls me how many people believe that the world owes them a living. The world owes you squat.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:48 PM   #42
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Maybe $15 is high but at least $10. Most people think that these jobs are still only occupied by teenagers. That isn't the case anymore. There are far more people with families to support in these jobs than ever before. Think back to when you were in your 20's fastback. How many adults would you normally see in fast-food joints? 1 maybe 2? The manager and assistant? What about the '80s? The '90s?
Tons of people that were cut from their jobs during the recession ended up in these places. They look and look but can't find a job in their former field. And not all these people were living pay-check-to-pay-check.
This isn't about feeling entitled or that something is owed to ones self, this is about being able to feed your kids.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:17 PM   #43
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10 is still understandable, I see their tactic, aim absurdly high and then "settle" at around 10.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:31 PM   #44
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Maybe $15 is high but at least $10. Most people think that these jobs are still only occupied by teenagers. That isn't the case anymore. There are far more people with families to support in these jobs than ever before. Think back to when you were in your 20's fastback. How many adults would you normally see in fast-food joints? 1 maybe 2? The manager and assistant? What about the '80s? The '90s?
Tons of people that were cut from their jobs during the recession ended up in these places. They look and look but can't find a job in their former field. And not all these people were living pay-check-to-pay-check.
This isn't about feeling entitled or that something is owed to ones self, this is about being able to feed your kids.

Thank your butt buddy in the White House and his cronies for that one........classic example of the unemployment rate figures that are being used.
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:32 AM   #45
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Yep. I don't care how old you are, the demands of the job dictate its pay.

You think they have it rough now, wait until their "demands" are met. Then they will have to jerk off to feed the chickens. Positions will be slashed and probably some restaurants fold altogether. The McD's House of Meat Paste is bumping the ragged ceiling of what I am willing to pay for that gruel now and the only reason I eat there at all is purely for convenience and the cheap *** food.

Go ahead and go on strike, they'll be replaced before the griddle gets cold.

Just because the economy is so phucked up that it hurts doesn't change the laws of supply and demand.
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Old 12-03-2013, 07:05 AM   #46
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Maybe $15 is high but at least $10. Most people think that these jobs are still only occupied by teenagers. That isn't the case anymore. There are far more people with families to support in these jobs than ever before. Think back to when you were in your 20's fastback. How many adults would you normally see in fast-food joints? 1 maybe 2? The manager and assistant? What about the '80s? The '90s?
Tons of people that were cut from their jobs during the recession ended up in these places. They look and look but can't find a job in their former field. And not all these people were living pay-check-to-pay-check.
This isn't about feeling entitled or that something is owed to ones self, this is about being able to feed your kids.
I have to disagree here without trying to be disrespectful to those who really do have to have the job, but if I lost my job and really needed another, I could probably find at least 50 jobs to take before stooping so low as working in a fast food restaurant. I'm an adult who has skills and experience. You know, there aren't often a shortage of hard manual labor jobs, but flipping a burger and complaining about not getting paid enough is much easier. While I have no doubt that there are at least a few instances of people who genuinely need the job because it's all they could find, I think that's rarely the case over laziness.

On top of that, these are the kind of people who lack the intelligence to understand what paying FIFTEEN DOLLARS AND HOUR to a burger flipper would do to our economy. Great, now everyone is making 15/hr at McDonalds. Guess what, no one eats at McDonalds anymore because they had to raise their prices to $10 per meal (hell, that's not that far off as it is). If burger flippers get $15/hr, anyone is going to expect $15/hr and you'll have to raise the entire minimum wage. If our minimum wage rose that much our inflation would blow the top off the already weak dollar.

I'm sorry, but I've seen the people who are adults who do work for fast food. The majority of them are there because they are fat and lazy and get cheap junk food to stuff their faces with. Get off your *** and go find a job that will support your family, even if it involves a little manual labor. I'll be damned if burger flippers need $15/hr. Minimum wage has already gone up from like $6 when I was a kid to $8 or $9 now in little more than 10 years.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:32 AM   #47
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Yep. I don't care how old you are, the demands of the job dictate its pay.

You think they have it rough now, wait until their "demands" are met. Then they will have to jerk off to feed the chickens. Positions will be slashed and probably some restaurants fold altogether. The McD's House of Meat Paste is bumping the ragged ceiling of what I am willing to pay for that gruel now and the only reason I eat there at all is purely for convenience and the cheap *** food.

Go ahead and go on strike, they'll be replaced before the griddle gets cold.

Just because the economy is so phucked up that it hurts doesn't change the laws of supply and demand.
Agree completely. There are places where fast food jobs pay $15 an hour. Some of those places are due to cost of living, and they charge more for their food. Other places it's because they can't find enough workers. There are places where oil/mining are big $20+ an hour jobs, no experience required so everyone goes and works there instead of fast food, so they have to bump their pay to just get workers.

I know people who have a tough time even getting a job at fast food because they are fully staffed. $15 an hour is about the average entry level IT worker's wage. I've worked fast food, it doesn't deserve that kind of pay, especially for the average worker there. There was a reason I was quickly promoted at Arby's... most people there can barely count back change or remember how much meat to put on a sandwich.


What happens when fast food charges pays $15 an hour, everyone else increases their wages to attract workers, leading to inflation of all costs and fast food workers are still stuck at the bottom. You don't get to the top by getting paid more, you increase your skill set and get a better job.
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:30 AM   #48
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I think you guys are looking at this minimum wage debate all wrong.

First off, it's not just burger flippers. It's Walmart, grocery stores, etc.

Second, it's about companies making record profits, billions, but giving their employees unlivable wages.

Third, you keep talking as if they'll have to raise their prices for a Mc Double to meet the higher wages. Which means they have you snowed just like their workers.
They can pay a higher wage and LOWER their food prices and still be profitable.

Fourth, it's really about fairness and tax payers burden.
Do you realize that all of those underpaid workers can't afford healthcare? Some companies offer it, but they don't earn enough to pay for it. So we the tax payer pays for it.

So bottom line, these companies are making billions upon billions and making us the tax payers pay for their employees healthcare and other subsidies.

How can any of you be ok with that?! Once again, letting the mega richest getting away with murder and you and I pay the bill. I'm sick of it!

Costco proves it's all BS. Costco pays a livable wage, gives healthcare and 401k. I get better prices and better quality at Costco than I do at Walmart.
Click the image to open in full size.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news...-food-strikes/
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:28 AM   #49
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I didn't say they HAD to raise prices, I said they WILL raise prices. But you're talking about trying to defeat capitalism which is massively flawed and is a huge separate discussion in itself. If you can get the CEOs of all these companies to stop taking multi million dollar pay checks and offer some of that to their employees, then you'd probably be the hero of the world. Unfortunately that's not how capitalism works and while you're correct about what the issue is, there's very little to be done to fix it. The rich keep getting richer and hoarding their money, keeping it out of circulation and causing inflation for everyone else who is getting paid far lower wages. The only solution is to force the rich to spend their money or tax the hell out of them. Unfortunately many people have been brainwashed by the "I worked for my money, I don't want to give it to you!" thing and support these rich not being taxed and continue to hoard their money and hurt the economy. That and the fact that the rich bribe the government to keep laws in their favor. If you can fix that, be my guest. I'm just as sick of it as you are. Until then, fast food workers aren't even going to be able to consider $15/hr.
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:30 PM   #50
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I think you guys are looking at this minimum wage debate all wrong.

First off, it's not just burger flippers. It's Walmart, grocery stores, etc.

Second, it's about companies making record profits, billions, but giving their employees unlivable wages.

Third, you keep talking as if they'll have to raise their prices for a Mc Double to meet the higher wages. Which means they have you snowed just like their workers.
They can pay a higher wage and LOWER their food prices and still be profitable.

Fourth, it's really about fairness and tax payers burden.
Do you realize that all of those underpaid workers can't afford healthcare? Some companies offer it, but they don't earn enough to pay for it. So we the tax payer pays for it.

So bottom line, these companies are making billions upon billions and making us the tax payers pay for their employees healthcare and other subsidies.

How can any of you be ok with that?! Once again, letting the mega richest getting away with murder and you and I pay the bill. I'm sick of it!

Costco proves it's all BS. Costco pays a livable wage, gives healthcare and 401k. I get better prices and better quality at Costco than I do at Walmart.
Click the image to open in full size.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news...-food-strikes/
I worked at wal-mart I could afford the healthcare, and I had a 401K and I got a bonus every year I was there. If I had kids I probably couldn't have afforded it. But then what idiot has a really crappy job and has kids and doesn't try to better themselves to get a better job and leave these entry level positions to kids? Oh that's right.. IDIOTS. There are smart people that work the entry level positions at wal-mart, but none of them I knew of had kids. Whats that bottom graphic? Promoted? there are positions you can promote to-from even as a cashier. there are multiple levels of management within departments at wal-mart. To be a store manager though you do have to have a college degree.. any degree. But they will also put you into management training and pay for your degree if you agree to work for so many years. I didn't want to do that because I didn't want to spend my life working retail. When I worked at Arby's I had no benefits. Why? Because it was a small company that owned the franchise. If you worked for Corporate you do actually get benefits.
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:39 PM   #51
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That's the problem, people think they can't change it.
Understand, I like private enterprise. I own a small business. Dare I say, I like capitalism. But just because you are a private enterprise doesn't mean you need to treat your employees like ****.

Again, look at the Costco business platform. Happier employees well taken care of has made them the second largest retail chain in the US.
I like what Costco CEO Craig Jelineck said.
“I just think people need to make a living wage with health benefits,” says Jelinek. “It also puts more money back into the economy and creates a healthier country. It’s really that simple.”

MORE MONEY BACK INTO THE ECONOMY! See how that works? These big companies aren't going to put their money back into the economy. But if they give more to their employees, they are happy and will gladly put it back into the economy.

PLUS, they have healthcare. No tax payer burden.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:04 PM   #52
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What about In-n-Out? They're not a huge corporation, it's ALL family-owned and they do NOT franchise. They START people at $11.00, their prices are only $1 or $2 above mcdonalds and growing at a HUGE rate. How is THAT possible?
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It's like AJ says, it's all about the top-earners. They make millions a year and if they took 15% cut most could pay for a raise (maybe not to $15 but $10 should easily be doable) to their employees, not need to raise prices, and keep current profit margins.
Are you really going to tell me that if Wallyworld had to dig into their yearly profits to bring everyone up to $10/hr they're not going to be making billions in profit yearly? Why do you guys insist on protecting the ultra-rich? They HATE you.
And how is this Obamas fault? The economy started nose diving durng W's watch.

You may not WANT to admit it but the truth is that low-end jobs do NOT pay a wage that is equivalent when you all, even Mishri, worked them. The dollar buys FAR less, and the pay needs to go up.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:26 PM   #53
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http://www.investopedia.com/articles...-inflation.asp

I believe we are reliving the 70s. (Economically speaking) Only I think it's going to be worse...

wal-mart and mcdonalds frequently does pay it's employees $10 an hour or more, depending on area.

Businesses succeed and fail on the quality of their employees. If Target and k-mart attracted all of the best retail staff with better pay and benefits wouldn't that leave wal-mart needing to offer better pay? Or be known for it's bad employees? those people making hardly any money at wal-mart are new and aren't likely to stick around. Once you advance through the ranks they give you a bunch of increases. I got merit increases every year while I was there (extra raise beyond our annual raise). There were these Great Job buttons that also gave you a raise once you had 5 of them. They reward their good workers.

Soon after I left though they instituted a Pay cap for various job levels, before that you could make $30 an hour as a cashier. Our electronics cashier was around $25 an hour because he had been with the company for 25 years. (Lifetime discount card, even if he quit he would still get 10% off everything at wal-mart)
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:57 PM   #54
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I was a teacher from 97-99. I was making 21k annually. Based on a standard 2040 hour year, that works out to 10.29 hourly wage. Considering the hours I put in as a teacher, I guarantee I made up for the 3 month "summer vacation" as those ignorant of the education system claim is a benefit. How in the heck does a person with little education, etc... justify 15 an hour? Inflation hasn't increased that much since I taught.

So what if they would like a new car or to move out of Mom's basement. Seriously, you work 20-25 hours a week? Go find a second job! Go find a different job. You could afford to go to all of that schooling to get trained as a pharmacy tech but can't come up with 100 bucks to get the certificate?

I do pretty well for myself, but I worked my butt off to get where Im at and no lazy *** punk living in mom's basement, driving mom's car, eating mom's food has a right to complain that life is hard. This 15 an hour movement is a ploy to make you feel bad for them. I don't. Get off the couch, get a real job. If it's not enough money, get a second or third one. If you are only going into work 20-25 hours a week, what are you doing the other 148-143 hours a week? Playing video games, jerking off, watching Springer??? I hate the victim mentality and those ignorant enough to believe their story. My father in law is 67 years old and still finds work several times a week doing odd jobs and rakes in about 30 an hour according to his claims, so if an old man can do it, then some lazy fat turdball can too.

This rant does not apply to those who most definitely cannot help themselves such as the elderly and the handicapped.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:04 PM   #55
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That's the problem, people think they can't change it.
Understand, I like private enterprise. I own a small business. Dare I say, I like capitalism. But just because you are a private enterprise doesn't mean you need to treat your employees like ****.

Again, look at the Costco business platform. Happier employees well taken care of has made them the second largest retail chain in the US.
I like what Costco CEO Craig Jelineck said.
“I just think people need to make a living wage with health benefits,” says Jelinek. “It also puts more money back into the economy and creates a healthier country. It’s really that simple.”

MORE MONEY BACK INTO THE ECONOMY! See how that works? These big companies aren't going to put their money back into the economy. But if they give more to their employees, they are happy and will gladly put it back into the economy.

PLUS, they have healthcare. No tax payer burden.
So you own a small business? Do you pay your workers under the model you propose? For example, let's say that in the course of your business week, you spend 50 hours a week OTJ. Then, you have one employee. They work 40 hours a week. After you've paid the necessary overhead, there's a bucket of money that's left. You opt to pay a standard wage from that bucket. Instead, according to your beliefs or those you try to impress upon the large businesses, you should be paying that employee 80% of your personal benefit. And by take home, I mean all that stuff you write off too like your vehicles, the stuff you buy and take home, etc...all of that value needs to be calculated. Because that's what you're proposing. Essentially assuming your annual net worth if it were calculated in REAL dollars (including all the write offs that you personally benefit from masquerading as business expenses) was 100k, your employee should earn 80k. Do you see how that makes no sense?

The problem might be that you're jealous that the guys running the multi-million and billion dollar enterprises are simply better at getting their hands on the cash than you have been to date. It's like the adage that "Everyone is a Democrat until they buy their first sofa."
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:35 PM   #56
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I was a teacher from 97-99. I was making 21k annually. Based on a standard 2040 hour year, that works out to 10.29 hourly wage. Considering the hours I put in as a teacher, I guarantee I made up for the 3 month "summer vacation" as those ignorant of the education system claim is a benefit. How in the heck does a person with little education, etc... justify 15 an hour? Inflation hasn't increased that much since I taught.

So what if they would like a new car or to move out of Mom's basement. Seriously, you work 20-25 hours a week? Go find a second job! Go find a different job. You could afford to go to all of that schooling to get trained as a pharmacy tech but can't come up with 100 bucks to get the certificate?

I do pretty well for myself, but I worked my butt off to get where Im at and no lazy *** punk living in mom's basement, driving mom's car, eating mom's food has a right to complain that life is hard. This 15 an hour movement is a ploy to make you feel bad for them. I don't. Get off the couch, get a real job. If it's not enough money, get a second or third one. If you are only going into work 20-25 hours a week, what are you doing the other 148-143 hours a week? Playing video games, jerking off, watching Springer??? I hate the victim mentality and those ignorant enough to believe their story. My father in law is 67 years old and still finds work several times a week doing odd jobs and rakes in about 30 an hour according to his claims, so if an old man can do it, then some lazy fat turdball can too.

This rant does not apply to those who most definitely cannot help themselves such as the elderly and the handicapped.
There it is. Assuming everyone in such a postion is there due to laziness. Have you not noticed, or ignored, how depressed the jobs market is? The only ploy here is that of the top earners that think the are clever enough to get away with paying people an unfair wage and then demonizing these people as "lazy." A ploy you seem to have fallen hook-line-and-sinker for. I hate those that think this is okay and those sadistic enough to encourage it as a way to "motivate" the lower-class.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:03 PM   #57
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The problem might be that you're jealous that the guys running the multi-million and billion dollar enterprises are simply better at getting their hands on the cash than you have been to date. It's like the adage that "Everyone is a Democrat until they buy their first sofa."
That's one hell of an assumption. It's always refreshing to hear some stranger tell me how I feel.
It's like that adage, “Good Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions.”
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:39 PM   #58
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Bouncer and a Tango dancer...........awesome
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:59 PM   #59
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well they do say Jesuits are tough...
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:25 AM   #60
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I really need to do more research into that order......what I have read is pretty amazing
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:25 AM
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