what is this?
08-22-2003, 03:52 AM
#12
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 90
what is this?
I just wanted to make the comment regarding the Tweecer that the average Joe isn't going to know which end is up with that thing. Unless you know what your changing you're likely to blow it sky high real quick. The reason guys are picking up 75+HP from a tweek is because something was terribly wrong fuel delivery wise. The stock computer doesn't like a long duration cam and gigantic fuel injectors. It wasn't designed for that. Like any engine, when you lean it out it runs better. But go to far and it fries. Aftermarket chips are tested rigorously to make sure they work with a safety margin. Some people don't want to keep adjusting things based on outside conditions. I'll give up the 10/20HP to be safe all the time anyday. Spend the $300/$400 bucks on a good intake or cam combo and leave the computer alone.
08-22-2003, 10:13 AM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: B'ham, WA
Posts: 1,484
what is this?
Your average tweecer buyer isn't going to blow anything up. From what contact I've had with the tweecer crowd it seems that they're smarter than the average meathead hot-rodder. Actually... it goes for any of the tuners who actually get in and monkey with the computers. A bit of a geek flair added in.
It's true that nobody is going to sit down their first time with the Tweecer and pick up huge power. There's a learning curve. Yeah, if you start monkeying with settings that you don't understand it's possible that you could harm something. But I really doubt that there will be a rash of blown up motors.
Aftermarket mass-produced chips aren't optimized for any particular setup. They're a huge compromise. That's where custom tuning shines. I've got parts from Ford Racing, Edelbrock, Professional Products, Mac, Flowmaster, Aeromotive, etc. I've changed my compression ratio. I've changed the cam. I've changed the maf, fuel injectors, throttle body, etc. And with the Tweecer I can get my engine running like it came from the factory (with a whole lot more power).
So far I'm just learning what can be done. You're right about the stock computer not liking the long duration and high lift cams. It doesn't idle nearly as well at the stock idle rpm. In fact, my car used to stall frequently as I pulled up to stop lights.
But thanks to the Tweecer, I've made some adjustments that prevent that from happening. Due to the vast amount of information on the internet, it's not too hard to learn what you need to learn.
I bumped up the dashpot pre-position and decay rates, as well as the idle speed, and now the car doesn't stall. In addition to that I've entered the MAF flow rate curve and told the eec what size injectors I've got. So now instead of being "ballpark" the eec can accurately dispense fuel and it runs better. I also bumped up the displacement to reflect the .030" overbore. It all helps the eec do its job better.
Oh, in addition to that I've raised the rev limiter and experimented with the speed limiter.
Leave the computer alone? Wouldn't you like a 'valet' setting? Turn the **** to position 3 and instantly the motor won't turn over 3000rpm and the vehicle won't travel over 35mph. You can have it pull timing too so the kid working valet can't leave 1/8" of your expensive tread on the parking lot. Or a little less drastic, the 'gf' setting.
Or friend-who-needs-to-borrow-your-car setting. Keep your buddy from getting himself into trouble, or worse, blowing up your motor.
There's a chance I may never bother to learn all about the different timing and fuel tables and how to get them dialed in properly. Many people go through life relying on the computer alone. If I can help the computer by giving it more specific operating parameters to work within, the computer will perform a lot better. I could tell a difference in how it ran just by entering the MAF xfer and injector slopes.
But being able to choke the car and open it up without having to even turn off the engine made it worth it for me. I figure when I'm done I'll have a few different settings: 1) max power, 2) max economy, 3) valet, and possibly 4) emissions.
There are some people with twin turbo stangs who have passed emissions thanks to the tweecer. Go figure. Twin turbos with an F303 cam, etc. Passed with flying colors.
It's true that nobody is going to sit down their first time with the Tweecer and pick up huge power. There's a learning curve. Yeah, if you start monkeying with settings that you don't understand it's possible that you could harm something. But I really doubt that there will be a rash of blown up motors.
Aftermarket mass-produced chips aren't optimized for any particular setup. They're a huge compromise. That's where custom tuning shines. I've got parts from Ford Racing, Edelbrock, Professional Products, Mac, Flowmaster, Aeromotive, etc. I've changed my compression ratio. I've changed the cam. I've changed the maf, fuel injectors, throttle body, etc. And with the Tweecer I can get my engine running like it came from the factory (with a whole lot more power).
So far I'm just learning what can be done. You're right about the stock computer not liking the long duration and high lift cams. It doesn't idle nearly as well at the stock idle rpm. In fact, my car used to stall frequently as I pulled up to stop lights.
But thanks to the Tweecer, I've made some adjustments that prevent that from happening. Due to the vast amount of information on the internet, it's not too hard to learn what you need to learn.
I bumped up the dashpot pre-position and decay rates, as well as the idle speed, and now the car doesn't stall. In addition to that I've entered the MAF flow rate curve and told the eec what size injectors I've got. So now instead of being "ballpark" the eec can accurately dispense fuel and it runs better. I also bumped up the displacement to reflect the .030" overbore. It all helps the eec do its job better. Oh, in addition to that I've raised the rev limiter and experimented with the speed limiter.
Leave the computer alone? Wouldn't you like a 'valet' setting? Turn the **** to position 3 and instantly the motor won't turn over 3000rpm and the vehicle won't travel over 35mph. You can have it pull timing too so the kid working valet can't leave 1/8" of your expensive tread on the parking lot. Or a little less drastic, the 'gf' setting.
Or friend-who-needs-to-borrow-your-car setting. Keep your buddy from getting himself into trouble, or worse, blowing up your motor. There's a chance I may never bother to learn all about the different timing and fuel tables and how to get them dialed in properly. Many people go through life relying on the computer alone. If I can help the computer by giving it more specific operating parameters to work within, the computer will perform a lot better. I could tell a difference in how it ran just by entering the MAF xfer and injector slopes.
But being able to choke the car and open it up without having to even turn off the engine made it worth it for me. I figure when I'm done I'll have a few different settings: 1) max power, 2) max economy, 3) valet, and possibly 4) emissions.
There are some people with twin turbo stangs who have passed emissions thanks to the tweecer. Go figure. Twin turbos with an F303 cam, etc. Passed with flying colors.
08-22-2003, 02:05 PM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 155
what is this?
I'm also a fan of the twEECer and would suggest that you get one when you need one. If you only have an air filter and headers then your probably not going to benefit much but there is still some areas where you can benefit. I've seen some stock timing advacement curve and those had large areas to be improved on. The bottom line is, If you have reached the point where your engine has gone beyond what the stock ECM can handle, where you have a driveability problem (won't idle, way to much fuel, ect..), or you just have some money laying around that you need to get ride of, getting the twEECer or a chip is going to be the right move. Finally, one really nice thing about the twEECer is that as your engine mods continue to grow you can just change things (maps, curves, limiters) when you need to. No need to spend more cash to have a new chip burned. And if your worried about not knowing what or how to change or modify, you better get your butt on the computer and learn. There is always someone who's willing to help you get going in the right direction.
08-22-2003, 08:34 PM
#15
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 90
what is this?
Well stated Horatio102 and stang574. You guys obviously know a thing or two about the EEC computers. You're right, in knowledgeable hands it's great tool. For the untrained user it is certain death to a motor. My motor is modified and runs fine without a tweek. Granted I'm sure I'm giving up some good HP but for me digging into the code world and spending hundreds of $ isn't worth it. I would rather buy nitrous or some other goodie to make up the power. But that's just me. Easier the better.
08-22-2003, 09:17 PM
#17
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: B'ham, WA
Posts: 1,484
what is this?
I'm just learning the eec. There's a HUGE learning curve, but with hours of research (I've got maybe ten hours of online research reading up on old posts on the tweecer forum as well as the tweecer yahoo group, and other sites like stangtuners.com or whatever) I've still barely uncovered a fraction of what's in there.
There are definately easier ways to make big power - drop the EFI and stick a carb on - way easier (and dare I say cheaper!). There are mechanical ways to fix what idle problems I've been having with the F303 cam - just a twist of the idle screw should bump it up as well. But I wanted to get in and make the computer happier as well.
That purple monster is an Escort with Cosworth body parts. Some girl in town owns it and hits all of the hot import nights type events in it, even though the front end looks like it's smacked a brick wall. But the rest of it is flawless and quite impressive (for what it is).
That said it's starting to annoy me enough that I'm contemplating getting rid of the huge sig.
