EmericaSkater

please correct me if iam wrong.

twin turbos are used to try and "stop" lagg, by using a small turbo for lo-rpms then a bigger turbo at higher rpms.

94Cbra

Technically a Turbocharger is a specific type of Supercharger... Websters Dictionary backs me up on that:
Supercharger - a device (as a blower or compressor) for pressurizing the cabin of an airplane or for increasing the volume air charge of an internal combustion engine over that which would normally be drawn in through the pumping action of the pistons.

Turbocharger - a centrifugal blower driven by exhaust gas turbines and used to supercharge an engine.

That just makes things nice and complicated doesnt it? Anyway, I would much rather have a traditional Supercharger for these reasons.

1.) A turbo will need to utilize a Turbo timer so the oil that accumulates in the bottem of the turbo after normal usage will not "cook" inside the turbo. This can cause significant turbo damage if not addressed properly. Superchargers dont have this problem.

2.) Turbos are much more expensive. Usualy installs are very involved, body parts must be temporarily removed to access certain areas to run the complicated piping. With some applications and kits permanent body modifcations must be made to accomidate the kit. Superchargers are affordable and can be installed in a matter of hours with simple hand tools. superchargers are also easier to rebuild/repair than turbochargers.

3.) Heat is a very major problem with a turbo. It is possible to heat wash other engine components and destroy them. Heat wash shouldnt be a problem with a quality kit, however, its always somthing to weary of. Overheating adjacent engine components is not correlated to superchargers.

4.) Turbo surge. A turbo spools up before the boost is delivered when the wastegate opens. The boost is dumped into the engine causing a "surge" in power. This could be dangerous in certian street situations, and could also cause adverse wear on vehicle components. A superchargers power is very predictable.

5.) Tunability. A turbo is much more difficult to properly tune than a S/C. S/C's require very little tuning.

Turbos are indeed bada$$ but, I like the simplicity of a S/C. The '03 and '04 Cobra has shown everyone the 600+ streetable RWHP that can be obtained with a simple S/C. Jim Blair and his Procharged Mustang enjoy 1600HP and 7.50 sec 1/4 miles, so S/C's are very capable of Turbo power. Speed = Money, how fast can you afford to go?

FoxGT

Those are sequential setups. They are only used on inline engines. All of the exhaust primaries route into one exhaust then the exhaust splits into two pipes. One goes into a smaller turbo, one goes into a larger one. It's not a good idea for a twin bank engine. Twin turbos on a twin bank are used for increased efficiency due to far superior header design. & cooler turbocharger temperatures.

Ever look for a turbo timer in a turbocharged eclipse? or any stock turbocharged vehicle. They don't have them. They aren't required, just a good idea.

Depends on who you ask.
Heat is only a problem if you buy a kit that is a poorly made piece of junk.
That's what they make bypass & blow off valves for. Almost every stock turbo car has them now days. This won't be problem with an aftermarket turbo kit as long as it comes with one. (Every one I've ever seen came with one)
Which is why I use an FMU rather than a FPR.
Superchargers won't produce the high rpm power a turbocharger will though @ the same psi. It may only be a 30hp gain on a low HP car, but the higher the H.P. the bigger the difference. (ie. 30hp difference on a 250hp car, 80hp difference on a 500hp car, 90hp difference on a 700hp car.)
& yes "speed cost money, how fast do you want to spend?"

94Cbra

I totally agree that turbos are bad ***. If I had the money to spend and time for the process I would definatly fortify the drive train and bolt one on. When I was a personal trainer at Golds Gym one of my clients was the owner of a local Turbo specific shop. Ive seen him install a few turbos and some of the things he had to do to install kits on certian cars made my skin crawl. A S/C to me is just a lot easier. I was at one time saving for a Turbo but, once you get married and start building a house the simplicy and cost of a S/C become very appealing .

bc_stang

ok guys turbocharges would for sure beat any supercharger car.period. yes i read them all articles about MM&FF tests and yes turbo engine made i beleve 120 more hp at same boost level!!!! given both engines are same and both engine have equal amounts of boost from supercharger/turbo,turbo engine would make more power.

iam currently 85% done with my turbo install on my 93 stang.iam running single turbo.infact i took the car out today with half of my exhaust done and boy that lil whine is addictive!!iam waiting for wastegate and Blow off valve so that i can actual run some boost.

BUT....i know turbo r cool and all but they r expensive, u gotta hunt for parts from shop to shop. where on the other hand u can buy spercharger kit off the shelve.luckily for me i did all my exhaust work , so far iam under 900$.

nice thing about turbo is u can play around with boost.all it takes is small **** and u can choose what kinda boost level u want.at the track go run 15 psi boost(if ur eninge is built for that kinda boost obviously),after whole day of racing turn it back down to 6-7psi.where as in a supercharger car u would have to change pulley.

for me i just liked the idea of being stealthy........after i got the turbo on my car,its not as loud as it was NA.ppl think it still has cats and some cheap mufflers.to me it worked out perfect cuz u can sneak up on ppl now.i got lots of pictures if anyone interested just PM me.

now the question about turbo lag...yeah its still there.but with ball bearing turbos and what not its not as bad like it use to be. small turbos spool as fast as 1800-1900rpms.bigger the turbo,longer it would take to spool,but u gain lots on the top end. ppl r using twin small turbos which spool up pretty quick and work as one big turbo....by that i mean two turbos making same boost level therefore theres more volums of air going in engine at same boost level.

lastly to me it was just being diffrent then wass been done in the past.all of my buddies hadblowers once on their stangs and its nothing new.i wanted to build something myself so here iam after 2 months since i started tearing up my car apart......almost done with it .

FoxGT

Why in the world would you want to turn it down? I don't see why every finds this feature all lovely. I owned my car for 5 months & I never once touched that button. Why not leave it at your maximum boost you could allow?

Your exhaust isn't finished & your car is quieter than it was with a full exhaust including cats & mufflers? Odd....

1800rpm... Where did you hear that from? I can see a VATN turbo producing boost that early, not normal turbochargers. Not unless the turbocharger(s) were so small that their max rpm was 3000rpm. A small turbocharger for my car as opposed to a large turbo was a 300rpm difference in boost rpm. What do you think will produce more volume, one big water pump, or two small ones working together?.

When you took it out, did you get on it? If so, did it sound nice? I would like to see those pictures. PM them to me.

Did you ever find the sizes out of that turbocharger you took off of the Ford engine? Is that what you are using? & did you ever get an intercooler for the project? You have been looking for a bov & wastegate for quite a while, I believe you made a post on it like back in february if I am thinking correctly. You can use a BOV or bypass valve from a turbocharged DSM, I'm not sure which one they come with though. Either will work. I used a single bov from a used car for my twin setup. I think it was a Ford... As for the wastegate, you can find one for very cheap on ebay. That's where I get mine. I'm glad you picked an external wastegate setup.

bc_stang

longevity........for instance u can run higher boost with racing fuel or high octane fuel.......but if its a daily driver u can just run regular fuel and keep ur boost down.but i guess it wont matter if the car's only used at track and get trailerd everywhere..

bc_stang

yeah that surprised me too,i wasnt expecting it to be that quiet.all i got for now(which iam gonna fix tomorrow and do it properly) is 3" downpipe from my turbo...goes into y-pipe and splits into two outlets.one outlet go into passenger side catback...still gotta make a pipe to connect other side of y-pipe to driver's side catback.believe it or not it isnt that loud. to make matters worse it sounds like i got cheap mufflers.almost sounds like iam running stock mufflers that r rusty and have holes in them !!!

ok sorry as i dont know the trick to reply to all ur lil quotes in one post........so bare with my diffrent post in response

bc_stang

ok pic small turbo on a big engine... for example just for argument sake ...turbo off athunderbird on a 302 or 351.......u still think it would take 3000rpms to get that turbo to make boost?exactly NO.. all the bottom end power from v-8 ...well u get the pic.thats all i meant."small turbos spool as fast as 1800-1900rpms"

as far as ur water pump question.......i dont wanna get into that since turbos work on diffrent principle.water pump r rpms oriented..meaning faster u can get them to spin,more volumes it can push.

lets talk about a turbo which when used as a single would produce 8psi boost but as the engine rpms go higher(around 4500+) it starts to give up.........boost starts to fall,reason being at 4500rpms or more big engine needs more volume so lil turbo cant keep up.now use two of those same turbos and whos to argue ur volume wont double at same boost level?? now the engine sees 4500rpms but two turbos r working hard to feed the same engine.remember ur boost doesnt double,just volume does.....

bc_stang

yeah i drive my car everyday to work for the past 3 days or so without w/g and BOV hooked up.right now i just unhooked one of my charge pipes so i got no boost.just waiting for my parts to arrive.man talk about hooked on turbos...first day all i did was dumped my downpipe right after r/frt tire and went around the block.man this turbo is loud.i could hear it spooling over my dumped downpipe!!!!!then i fabbed up my pipe cz it was way too loud to drive and got one part hooked to my catback .car isnt loud anymore but u can sure hear my turbo spooling loud and clear.off the line around 3000rpms it sounds like dump truck taking off.....u know how their turbos r loud.

as for external waste gate...iam still waiting as local performace store ordered one ,its 38mm tial with all flanges and gaskets included.it would be here by end of this week.i have a 89 supra thats just parked for the time being so for now iam gonna use that BOV and if it works fine i would get one from junkyard cuz theres plenty of them supras out here.
tomorrow i need to finish up my exhaust so its gonna be even more quieter.i put one temporary pipe in my exhaust so everything was hooked up to my catback and man that thing sounds like stock car .honestly it sounded like i had cats and flows ...maybe even quieter...i miss all the rumble when i had no turbo thing.it sounded healthy.