Supercharging or Turbo ?
07-01-2008, 05:51 PM
#31
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: L.I. New York
Posts: 555
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
^^^[sm=icon_rofl.gif]thats freaking hilrious man!!! its like riding in my friends honda, it has a 2 liter b18 that has a bigger turbo then my engine does. no lie, he gets boost at about 7 grand and shifts at 8. now i do have a 2jz supra motor in my 240sx, with a t76 turbo, usually gets boost at about 4 grand, 2500 if i shoot a lil nitrous, pretty damn good for a 3 liter I6 IMO.
07-03-2008, 03:20 AM
#32
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 3,451
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
I personally wouldn't say they have no lag. Every kit i've built has had lag. above 4.5k on every setup it's not very noticable, but it's still there.
It's not bad like people build it up to be it just feels like very very small throttle delay if anything. It's barely noticable.
As for it being gone if it's sized properly, that's a difference of opinion. There is no sized proper turbo. There are sizes for people that prefer boost to come on sooner & sacrifice a little high end power & some that will make your mid range suffer, but will give a little more power at high rpm. I personally prefer turbos that are sized a little on the big side for more high end power. I have no problem sacrificing 400rpm till full boost for more high end power since I generally will be above that rpm when racing anyway. There's a little more lag that way, but same scenario. If I downshift & go from a rolling start at high rpm, lag is maybe .1-.3 of a second. Hardly noticable, Not gone though.
There is too big & too small, but there's quite a bit for choosing what rpm range you want your turbo to be most effective.
Edit: also I should mention all that i've said is based on fluid bearing turbos, not ball bearing. If I were to ever decide to use ball bearing turbos I would probably go even bigger on my exhaust a/r to take even more advantage of it on high end. I personally have no intention of switching to ball bearing turbos though.
It's not bad like people build it up to be it just feels like very very small throttle delay if anything. It's barely noticable.
As for it being gone if it's sized properly, that's a difference of opinion. There is no sized proper turbo. There are sizes for people that prefer boost to come on sooner & sacrifice a little high end power & some that will make your mid range suffer, but will give a little more power at high rpm. I personally prefer turbos that are sized a little on the big side for more high end power. I have no problem sacrificing 400rpm till full boost for more high end power since I generally will be above that rpm when racing anyway. There's a little more lag that way, but same scenario. If I downshift & go from a rolling start at high rpm, lag is maybe .1-.3 of a second. Hardly noticable, Not gone though.
There is too big & too small, but there's quite a bit for choosing what rpm range you want your turbo to be most effective.
Edit: also I should mention all that i've said is based on fluid bearing turbos, not ball bearing. If I were to ever decide to use ball bearing turbos I would probably go even bigger on my exhaust a/r to take even more advantage of it on high end. I personally have no intention of switching to ball bearing turbos though.
07-03-2008, 10:12 AM
#33
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 911
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
Very true. Most of your factory turbo cars come with turbo's that are very well matched for the engine and don't produce much lag, if any at all. The problem is, most of the time those factory turbo's won't provide you the power numbers you'd like to see either. Once you hit that limit and you want to go faster but the stock turbo is just winded, you have no choice but to bite the bullet and upgrade your turbo. 9 times out of 10, when you upgrade from a smaller turbo to a larger one, you're going to create more lag. The more power you want, the more lag you're going to get.
Now you can "properly size" a turbo to a mustang to virtually eliminate all your lag but you're going to put yourself in the same boat as a factory car when looking for more power. Eventually you'll be swapping to the larger turbo. It all depends on what you are after, more power or no lag.
I'm with FoxGT on the lag though. It really didn't bother me. Once you hit that boost and you feel the sudden pull of the car, you get that big grin on your face. It's a totally different feel of power. Some prefer it, some don't.
I don't however think I would like a Honda with a 1,000 rpm power band. That's some funny stuff Floodzilla. [sm=roll.gif]
Now you can "properly size" a turbo to a mustang to virtually eliminate all your lag but you're going to put yourself in the same boat as a factory car when looking for more power. Eventually you'll be swapping to the larger turbo. It all depends on what you are after, more power or no lag.
I'm with FoxGT on the lag though. It really didn't bother me. Once you hit that boost and you feel the sudden pull of the car, you get that big grin on your face. It's a totally different feel of power. Some prefer it, some don't.
I don't however think I would like a Honda with a 1,000 rpm power band. That's some funny stuff Floodzilla. [sm=roll.gif]
07-03-2008, 09:29 PM
#35
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Andalusia, Alabama
Posts: 518
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
um okay to all i pissed off about my opinion about centra's, i'm sorry ok maby they don't suck i just don't like the fact that they lag like a turbo AND lose hp to a belt that's all i'm saying, and what i meant was roots use pop-it valves not bov's sorry again if i made you all made
, o and the reason that i like roots is because there is no lag, sorry again to all
, o and the reason that i like roots is because there is no lag, sorry again to all
07-04-2008, 09:16 PM
#36
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 229
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
turbo hands down. After my dodge diesel with a built motor and turbo nothing else will compare, it pulled like hell and would leave my o1 gt from 40 mph and up not much that would have taken it one i got it spooled up
07-04-2008, 11:39 PM
#37
Buyer Beware
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,586
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
ORIGINAL: OneFastEclipse
It's a matter of preference. Both methods will get you awesome power. I chose supercharger since it is a bit less hassle then a turbo. Easier to tune, linear power band, less heat in the engine bay, no worry of manifolds cracking, no boost leaks, cooler charge temps without the need of a intercooler, etc. I also personally enjoy the sound of a centri at idle.
You're going to be satisfied either route you go. You have the ability to make more power with the turbo setup but you will also need to maintain it more often then the blower route. If you have the option, take a ride in both types of cars, feel how the power comes on, listen to the sounds, see how they look, make your decision from there.
It's a matter of preference. Both methods will get you awesome power. I chose supercharger since it is a bit less hassle then a turbo. Easier to tune, linear power band, less heat in the engine bay, no worry of manifolds cracking, no boost leaks, cooler charge temps without the need of a intercooler, etc. I also personally enjoy the sound of a centri at idle.
You're going to be satisfied either route you go. You have the ability to make more power with the turbo setup but you will also need to maintain it more often then the blower route. If you have the option, take a ride in both types of cars, feel how the power comes on, listen to the sounds, see how they look, make your decision from there.
07-05-2008, 10:37 AM
#38
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 3,451
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
:
ORIGINAL: OneFastEclipse
Very true. Most of your factory turbo cars come with turbo's that are very well matched for the engine and don't produce much lag, if any at all. The problem is, most of the time those factory turbo's won't provide you the power numbers you'd like to see either. Once you hit that limit and you want to go faster but the stock turbo is just winded, you have no choice but to bite the bullet and upgrade your turbo. 9 times out of 10, when you upgrade from a smaller turbo to a larger one, you're going to create more lag. The more power you want, the more lag you're going to get.
Now you can "properly size" a turbo to a mustang to virtually eliminate all your lag but you're going to put yourself in the same boat as a factory car when looking for more power. Eventually you'll be swapping to the larger turbo. It all depends on what you are after, more power or no lag.
I'm with FoxGT on the lag though. It really didn't bother me. Once you hit that boost and you feel the sudden pull of the car, you get that big grin on your face. It's a totally different feel of power. Some prefer it, some don't.
I don't however think I would like a Honda with a 1,000 rpm power band. That's some funny stuff Floodzilla. [sm=roll.gif]
Very true. Most of your factory turbo cars come with turbo's that are very well matched for the engine and don't produce much lag, if any at all. The problem is, most of the time those factory turbo's won't provide you the power numbers you'd like to see either. Once you hit that limit and you want to go faster but the stock turbo is just winded, you have no choice but to bite the bullet and upgrade your turbo. 9 times out of 10, when you upgrade from a smaller turbo to a larger one, you're going to create more lag. The more power you want, the more lag you're going to get.
Now you can "properly size" a turbo to a mustang to virtually eliminate all your lag but you're going to put yourself in the same boat as a factory car when looking for more power. Eventually you'll be swapping to the larger turbo. It all depends on what you are after, more power or no lag.
I'm with FoxGT on the lag though. It really didn't bother me. Once you hit that boost and you feel the sudden pull of the car, you get that big grin on your face. It's a totally different feel of power. Some prefer it, some don't.
I don't however think I would like a Honda with a 1,000 rpm power band. That's some funny stuff Floodzilla. [sm=roll.gif]
ORIGINAL: boss_dude_429
um okay to all i pissed off about my opinion about centra's, i'm sorry ok maby they don't suck i just don't like the fact that they lag like a turbo AND lose hp to a belt that's all i'm saying, and what i meant was roots use pop-it valves not bov's sorry again if i made you all made, o and the reason that i like roots is because there is no lag, sorry again to all
um okay to all i pissed off about my opinion about centra's, i'm sorry ok maby they don't suck i just don't like the fact that they lag like a turbo AND lose hp to a belt that's all i'm saying, and what i meant was roots use pop-it valves not bov's sorry again if i made you all made, o and the reason that i like roots is because there is no lag, sorry again to all
Every roots i've seen or used in a kit all used a butterfly style bypass valve to equalize pressure so there it is close to a freewheel state when you're at idle/cruise. When the valve is open it generally won't take more than a hp under cruise, so you get better fuel economy.
Nothing wrong with liking roots superchargers. I personally love them.
07-05-2008, 10:55 AM
#39
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 911
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
ORIGINAL: VCS_SSSTANG
Maybe your vortech works differently than mine but my IAT temps are WAY hotter than turbo guys....
Maybe your vortech works differently than mine but my IAT temps are WAY hotter than turbo guys....
Having a turbo holds a LOT of heat in the manifolds of the car. Take a turbo car out at night time, beat on it for about 5-10 minutes, stop, then pop the hood. You'll have a nice little light show coming off your glowing read manifolds. Hell, just have your car sitting at idle and put your hand on your blower, little warm to the touch right? Now take your hand and put it on the "cold" side of the turbo while it's idling. Quite a bit hotter huh? Probably need to get some neosporin and a band aid. lol
07-05-2008, 11:21 AM
#40
Buyer Beware
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,586
RE: Supercharging or Turbo ?
ORIGINAL: OneFastEclipse
Take the intercooler off their turbo car and see what happens. Having a turbo holds a LOT of heat in the manifolds of the car. Take a turbo car out at night time, beat on it for about 5-10 minutes, stop, then pop the hood. You'll have a nice little light show coming off your glowing read manifolds. Hell, just have your car sitting at idle and put your hand on your blower, little warm to the touch right? Now take your hand and put it on the "cold" side of the turbo while it's idling. Quite a bit hotter huh? Probably need to get some neosporin and a band aid. lol
ORIGINAL: VCS_SSSTANG
Maybe your vortech works differently than mine but my IAT temps are WAY hotter than turbo guys....
Maybe your vortech works differently than mine but my IAT temps are WAY hotter than turbo guys....
Having a turbo holds a LOT of heat in the manifolds of the car. Take a turbo car out at night time, beat on it for about 5-10 minutes, stop, then pop the hood. You'll have a nice little light show coming off your glowing read manifolds. Hell, just have your car sitting at idle and put your hand on your blower, little warm to the touch right? Now take your hand and put it on the "cold" side of the turbo while it's idling. Quite a bit hotter huh? Probably need to get some neosporin and a band aid. lol