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Fallstar01 01-31-2006 08:09 PM

Positive Displacement Supercharger Info
 
I just wanted to inform some people about positive displacement superchargers.
There are several "Brands" out there.

Ford OEM
Ford Racing
Roush
Allen Engineering
Saleen
Kenne Bell
Whipple

Let me clear up some confusion about the compressor (The main part with the screws that has the displacement):
Eaton:
--Ford OEM on the Lightning, both 03/04 and 07 Cobras, and other cars except the Ford GT have an Eaton compressor.
--Ford Racing's 2V supercharger has an Eaton Compressor.
--Roush Superchargers (that I've seen) have Eaton Compressors.
--Saleen Series I and Series II have Eaton Compressors
--Allen Engineering Superchargers have Eaton Compressors.
Whipple:
--Ford GT's supercharger has a Compressor from Whipple
--Ford Racings Cobra upgrade has a Compressor from Whipple
--Saleen Series IV, V and VI all have Compressors from Whipple
Kenne Bell:
--Makes aftermarket kits for most Modular Ford Engines.

The Eaton is referred to as a "Roots" supercharger and the most common compressors on ford engines are the M90 and the M112. Oddly enough, it's screws look much more like twins than the twin-screws.

This is where it gets tricky because they are all interconnected:
SRM liscensed twin screw compressors as early as 1951
SRM formed a sister company: Opcon Autorotor.
Opcon Autorotor parted ways with SRM.
SRM formed Lysholm.
Lysholm formed a partnership in the U.S. with Eaton.
Opcon bought Lysholm.

Kenne Bell uses Autorotor Compressors.
Autorotor is a subsidiary of OPCON, a swedish company.
OPCON bought out Lysholm in January of 2004.
Up until 2005, Whipple used Lysholm Compressors. Now, Whipple makes their own.

Kenne Bell and Whipple have been in competition with eachother since roughly 1991 however they both use a very similar design. Kenne Bell explains why it chose to use Autorotor compressors over Lysholm in the following article this page.
There was a backlog of Whipple orders and rumors that the company may be going out of business. It turns out that Whipple has since moved away from lysholm compressors and now manufacturers their own units in-house.
Here is a great link from Whipple's site on the history of the twin-screw: History of the Twin Screw.

Regarding Lysholm's future:
"The demand for our products on the US aftermarket remains strong and a new sales organization will enable us to meet the increasing demand and further develop the existing potential in the US automotive and Marine aftermarket. We will further develop our distribution channels and our support for these products in the US," says Martin Stenbäck, CEO of Lysholm.

Eaton/Roots:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...charger-11.jpg

Autorotor/Whipple/Lysholm Twin Screw (I believe the 4/5 lobe design is more common than the 3/6 pictured below)
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...charger-13.jpg

It's important to note "Twin Screw" superchargers tend to be more thermally efficient.
Here is a link to a good site with detailed info on how these superchargers work (as well as centrifugal SCs):
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/supercharger.htm

Some Links:
Autorotor
Lysholm
Eaton
Allen Engineering Superchargers
Kenne Bell Superchargers
Whipple Superchargers (site was down when I wrote this)
Saleen Superchargers
Roush (Run a search for superchargers)

Tim37 01-31-2006 08:50 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
wow lots of good infor this needs to be a sticky.

Fallstar01 02-01-2006 11:01 AM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
I've made a few updates and corrections. Let me know if anyone else has any input that would be useful.

Birdieman4 02-01-2006 04:24 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
Great info, Fallstar.
Folks, notice the helix style rotors on the screw diagram. They make for a much more efficient contact point, and thus less heat is generated.

Good stuff, Fallstar.

KnotBand 06-06-2006 01:50 AM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
my only comment is about terminoligy.....the title says positive displacement and yet, you talk about rotary type compressors....

positive displacement usually refers to something of the piston type.....like your engine, or your shop compressor, or your home AC compressor......they rotary technology (screw and scroll type compressors) is more efficient, more reliable, and more versitile than positive displacement equipment and usually more expensive. Screw compressors are used a lot on large chillers for unloading and on large industrial air compressors for efficiency since compressed air is the most expensive utility...

just thought I would point that out....but as a disclaimer, I don't know anything about superchargers and this might be an industry standard term eventhough it would not be consistant with normal industrial terminology.

tt460 08-10-2006 01:12 AM

RE: Positive Displacement Supercharger Info
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallstar01

Whipple:
--Ford GT's supercharger has a Compressor from Whipple

<--stuff removed-->
The Eaton is referred to as a "Roots" supercharger and the most common compressors on ford engines are the M90 and the M112. Oddly enough, it's screws look much more like twins than the twin-screws.
<--stuff removed-->
Eaton/Roots:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...charger-11.jpg

All good information, and you even help to explain the twisted history of the screw compressor (no pun intended), even though I still don't fully understand it.

I have three picks here with some points you made above:

1) The Ford GT's Supercharger *is* in fact assembled by Eaton. The rotating group might have components sourced from Opcon/Autorotor/Lysholm or maybe even Whipple, but the Ford GT supercharger was designed by Eaton engineers, tested by Eaton and manufactured by Eaton. Eaton licenses the screw compressor design and has the right to manufacture and sell them. Why doesn't Eaton sell more screws? Most OE manufacturers still choose the Eaton Roots design over the screw compressor due to cost, reliability, availability, NVH, and low power consumption at cruise due to the lack of internal compression.

2) The rotors of an Eaton are not twins. The image above is very misleading. Eaton superchargers in fact have a left and a right rotor that are mirror images of each other. I think if you'd have a tough time spinning the example of the Roots blower shown above.

3) The diagram referenced above is in fact of a "Roots" compressor, but not an Eaton Roots. Even so, it is incorrect for a plain old Roots. Lets imagine the rotors were correct and that you could actually spin the rotors in the direction shown above. With the rotors moving in the direction the arrows point, the inlet and outlet would be reversed (i.e. "fill side" on bottom, discharge on top). The air travels along the OUTSIDE of the case and then it is discharged as the rotors begin to mesh and the air reaches the discharge port.

What makes the compressor above not an Eaton? Eaton superchargers all have "axial" inlets similar to a screw as they draw air into one end and then discharge air out the top or bottom (depending on orientation).

As for KnotBand's comment: Roots and Screw compressors are both positive displacement compressors. Each revolution they take, they will move a fixed amount of air equal to their displacement (at least in a perfect world, since alot of other things come into play like inlet restriction, clearances, etc). A centrifugal compressor is not a positive displacement compressor since the volume of air it moves is not fixed and varies greatly with RPM.

VARifleman 08-23-2006 08:16 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: KnotBand

my only comment is about terminoligy.....the title says positive displacement and yet, you talk about rotary type compressors....

positive displacement usually refers to something of the piston type.....like your engine, or your shop compressor, or your home AC compressor......they rotary technology (screw and scroll type compressors) is more efficient, more reliable, and more versitile than positive displacement equipment and usually more expensive. Screw compressors are used a lot on large chillers for unloading and on large industrial air compressors for efficiency since compressed air is the most expensive utility...

just thought I would point that out....but as a disclaimer, I don't know anything about superchargers and this might be an industry standard term eventhough it would not be consistant with normal industrial terminology.
This is incorrect as positive displacement means there is a certain amount of air displaced in a movement. In the case of a piston, it's the volume that is taken up by one piston stroke, thus moving or compressing that air. The roots and twin screw are positive displacement because they always move the same amount of air in one rotation, just like a piston moves a certain amount of air in a stroke.

itzztrick 11-30-2006 03:56 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.

jlauth 01-14-2007 03:26 AM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
It has been a long time since i have put anything on this site, and for this i am sorry, but i have been very busy. On the other hand, good psost man. Great history on the SC’s that are commonly used on the terminator, but im gonna be honest In saying that roots type SC such as the Eaton M112, which can be found on 03-04 in often called a blower as opposed to a compressor. This is because the blowers force the air (at a high velocity) around the supercharger case or housing, thus compressing the air. A twin screw is considered a compressor because it compresses the air at in between the male and female supercharger blades, which were specifically designed to have the correct amount of mass air flow and PSI through the outlet area of the compressor. Both have are reffered to differently because of the diffrent compression process that occurs.
Quote:

ORIGINAL: KnotBand

my only comment is about terminoligy.....the title says positive displacement and yet, you talk about rotary type compressors....

positive displacement usually refers to something of the piston type.....like your engine, or your shop compressor, or your home AC compressor......they rotary technology (screw and scroll type compressors) is more efficient, more reliable, and more versitile than positive displacement equipment and usually more expensive. Screw compressors are used a lot on large chillers for unloading and on large industrial air compressors for efficiency since compressed air is the most expensive utility...

just thought I would point that out....but as a disclaimer, I don't know anything about superchargers and this might be an industry standard term eventhough it would not be consistant with normal industrial terminology.
NO it is wrong to correct him. Both an engine performing the perfect otto cycle, and the supercharger are indeed both positive displacement. Yes it is more common to refer to the rotary style pump (twin screw and roots superchargers) than the reciprocating pumps as positive displacement, but they are both indeed positive displacement pumps, and yes the superchargers are more efficient, more reliable, and more versitle than than most common air compressors, and even most gas motors (if you dont take into account the ignition of the A/F mixture), thus the price of these supercargers. Chillers often do indeed use screw compressors, which are still of positive displacement and yes i do agree that they are expensive, but the main power sorce of air and electric is coal.

reesmach1 04-18-2007 06:32 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
kenne bell makes their own compressors on their big bore kits now.

Jexey 07-02-2007 11:30 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Superchargers
 
bump, yo

PJinIA 07-04-2007 12:42 AM

RE: Positive Displacement Supercharger Info
 
What I want to know is there any other twin screw for a 5.0 besides the KB. I don't like the way the KB hangs over to the side. I want something that sits in the center of the motor and is capable of 15-20lb of boost but with a pully change I can run around9 lbfor the street.

Mr.Bape 08-14-2007 02:31 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Supercharger Info
 
so if I'm installing a supercharger in my v6 07 stang, I should go with whipple or kenne bell instead of vortech?

LaStang04 09-29-2007 03:40 PM

RE: Positive Displacement Supercharger Info
 
Another interesting fact about roots type blowers for the younger crowd ( yes i'm an old geezer compared to alot ) . The first Roots type blowers were acually taken off diesel engines and adapted to fit on gasoline engines. Thus the ones you will find being called 4-71, 6-71, 8-71 and so on , those were taken off Detoit Diesel (GM--Gray Marine)engines and new drive housings made to run off a belt. Roots type blowers were around long before World War 2 on deisel engine applications.

galin 11-01-2007 11:03 AM

RE: Positive Displacement Supercharger Info
 
Getting more fuel into the charge would make for a more powerful explosion. But you can't simply pump more fuel into the engine because an exact amount of oxygen is required to burn a given amount of fuel. This chemically correct mixture -- 14 parts air to one part fuel -- is essential for an engine to operate efficiently. The bottom line: To put in more fuel, you have to put in more air. That's the job of the supercharger. Superchargers increase intake by compressing air above atmospheric pressure, without creating a vacuum. This forces more air into the engine, providing a "boost." With the additional air in the boost, more fuel can be added to the charge, and the power of the engine is increased. Supercharging adds an average of 46 percent more horsepower and 31 percent more torque. In high-altitude situations, where engine performance deteriorates because the air has low density and pressure, a supercharger delivers higher-pressure air to the engine so it can operate optimally.----drug rehab

Nichoms 04-28-2009 02:27 AM

From my understanding, learned in several thermo classes, a positive displacement supercharger produces the pressure (boost) inside the case, just as they previously explained, with the air moving down the case in the decreasing space between the rotors, therefore when the air leaves the case it is already pressurized to a set psi. In superchargers that are not positive displacement they just push the air through the supercharger and stack the air ontop of itself in the combustion chamber, or ontop of the intake valve. So the air leaving the supercharger is not pressurized when leaving the case but builds the pressure at the valve simply from the air having nowhere else to go.

idareya 12-17-2009 07:59 PM

boost question
 
just bought an 08 500 with kenne bell 2.8 blower turns 15-17 psi has pump gas jhave not been to dyno does this sound like alot?


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