Best "bang" for my buck suspension wise - Page 5

androdz · 11-29-2006, 07:11 PM

Ok just ordered the Steeda UDP and I went with the BMR panhard support, BMR UCA and support. I left out the LCA relocation brackets because you said they are for drag only and I want to motorcross also.

Att. Andrew

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CrazyAl · 11-29-2006, 08:42 PM

Sounds good.

Just to clarify my earlier post:

I think the LCA relocation brackets are so good they are MANDATORY if you drag race. They are also important if you lower your car.

They certainly won't hurt you otherwise, but they aren't as critical.

jvitas · 11-30-2006, 09:15 AM

CrazyAl,

Excellent points all. If price is not an issue, would you go the same way? Do you have any thoughts on the KW Variant 3 coilover set-up? What about the Ground Control adjustable Camber/Caster plates? I have a similar C/C plate set-up on my E46 M3, which is my track car, and I can change the camber from street to track settings in less than 5 minutes without using any guages.

CrazyAl · 11-30-2006, 12:00 PM

If price is not an issue, then I'd definatley say buy the LCA relocation brackets.

I'm actually kind of glad you asked that question. Recommending suspension parts is difficult becasue cost IS a factor. If you're spending $500 on your suspension or if you're spending $5000 on it, it completely changes the priority of what you should buy, as does the intented use of the car.

I don't really care for the coilovers becasue I don't see a real benefit to them for most people. A lot of guys see them and think, "woah, cool. I can change the ride height whenever I want"....but it's not so simple. After you change your height, then you have to go back and reset your camber, pinion angle, rear-end offset (panhard), and so on. It's not something that the average guy can do on a whim. I suggest them only if you are a hardcore roadcourse racer and you need to get your height settings absoloutley perfect, and you know how to make the requisite adjustments yourself.

For the average person, I think camber plates are a wase of money too. Most people only need to set their camber after lowering their car (for looks). They reset it once and that's it. An eccentric bolt works fine for that, and that's even what the Ford service manual specifies for camber changes.

However, like you said, the camber plates can allow fast camber changes for switching between race and street settings. That is attractive for a frequent roadcourse racer, but for the average joe I don't recommend them.

07GT · 12-01-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyAl

Sounds good.

Just to clarify my earlier post:

I think the LCA relocation brackets are so good they are MANDATORY if you drag race. They are also important if you lower your car.

They certainly won't hurt you otherwise, but they aren't as critical.

What about the UCA bracket that has the 2 mounting positions? Could you gain as much bite using the UCA as the LCA location bracket?
I'd be curious in how much they differ. Seems to me that lowering the front UCA postion is the same as lowering the rear LCA position. I have wondered if using the UCA reloacation would be harder on the top mounting brackets though. Any thoughts?

CrazyAl · 12-01-2006, 12:26 AM

The UCA mount is a good part. I think it's a bit of overkill for the average street car, but for a car with a power adder or a serious drag racer, it becomes a much better buy. As I said above, unless you have a really fat wallet, you have to draw the line somewhere.

By the way, the UCA mount affects the FRONT mounting point of the control arm, unlike the LCA brackets which affect the rear mounting points. This makes the adjustment "backwards" from the LCA brackets. Using the upper hole of the UCA bracket is like using the lower hole of the LCA bracket.

It's not an harder on the suspension. In fact, the UCA bracket is a good durability upgrade because it's a lot stiffer than the OEM bracket. That's why I recommended it for cars with power adders.

Hiboost · 12-01-2006, 12:37 AM

Cheap yet very effective:

Hellwig Adjustable F+R sway bars $300 from Nancy at Hellwig
Roush rear springs $125
LCAs $120
LCA Relocation Brackets $90

jvitas · 12-01-2006, 07:27 PM

CrazyAl,

Thanks for your thoughts. I currently do about 15 - 20 road course track days ("driver education") per year with several groups. My M3 has coilovers with double adjustable shocks, Camber/Caster plates, Dinan front sway bar, Brembo GT kits, adjustable rear LCAs, Pilot Sport Cups, 3.96 diff., roll bar, racing seats, and 6 point harnesses. I bought the coilovers because they were lighter and allowed me to adjust the stiffness and corner balance of the car.

Ultimately, I want a comparable set-up for the Mustang but want to start with the suspension first. I will then do brakes and a supercharger. I too have a budget, but compared to BMW aftermarket prices, Mustang goodies are a bargain. Somewhere between 30 - 50% less.

I want the car to be a track car that is streetable. I need more horsepower because I am tired of getting my butt kicked by the Z06 boys. I can catch them in the corners but lose them on the straights. Supercharging the M3 would cost between $12 and $18,000. In addition it will void the extended warranty on an already highly stressed engine. A Whipple with all the bells and whistles is far less. And one of the reasons we buy Mustangs is because of their looks. Corvettes are fast but ugly.

With that in mine would you make any different recomendations?

John

07GT · 12-01-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyAl

By the way, the UCA mount affects the FRONT mounting point of the control arm, unlike the LCA brackets which affect the rear mounting points. This makes the adjustment "backwards" from the LCA brackets. Using the upper hole of the UCA bracket is like using the lower hole of the LCA bracket.

I'm aware that the adjustment hole of the UCA is in the front. I think you have it backwards though, you would want to lower the front of the UCA to be the same as lowering the rear of the LCA. Lowering the front of the UCA is the only way to bring the instant center rearwards with the UCA.

Also here's a thought for you, when lowering a car the LCA angle is made worse because the front is lowered, but the UCA angle should be better because the front is lowered. I would think the UCA angle would make more change in instant center because the arm is shorter, making the overall instant center possibly better when lowering a car.

CrazyAl · 12-01-2006, 10:43 PM

My suggestion regarding adjusting the UCA mount isn't so much from an instant center perspective, but purely a matter of looking at the resolved (horizontal and vertical) forces from the angle of the UCA.

You want the UCA (and the LCA) to be slightly higher in the front than in the rear. Thus, when the rear axle is forced forward under hard acceleration, a portion of the force acts vertically, forcing the axle down against the ground, which improves traction.

A perfectly horizontal CA (upper or lower) will transfer no extra force to the pavement, and one that slopes up at the rear of the car will acutally HURT performance by lifting the rear end slightly under acceleration, thus decreasing traction.

I have experimented with both settings, and at least on my car I found better traction with this setup, which also happens to be what BMR's techs suggested that I run. Of course, different settings may work better on other cars, that's why these parts are adjusable after all.