How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
03-26-2008, 09:01 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Posts: 284
How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
INSTRUCTIONS: This is a two part pop quiz. Please answer questions 1 & 2, and include war stories if you have them that substantiate your answers.
Pop Quiz Question # 1: Which of the below options, at minimum, isneeded to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat late model porsches, Audi S Series, or BMW M seriesin the twisties.
Will Option #1 do it: (I currently have this.)
1. Lowering Springs (Ford Racing springs)
2. Set of nice rubber 245front/275 rear (Nitto Extremes)
Will Option #2 do it:
1. All the above
2.Rear Sway bar
3.Lower control arms
Will Option #3 do it:
1.All the above
2. Upgraded shocks (ie. Tokico D-specs)
3.Adjustable Panhard Bar
Pop Quiz Question # 2: Which of the above options, at minimum, is needed to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat modified import class rides (Honda, Acura, Nissan Z's & Infinity's)in the twisties.
I just don't want to get burned by a honda in some hair pins. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror afterwards. LOL.
Pop Quiz Question # 1: Which of the below options, at minimum, isneeded to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat late model porsches, Audi S Series, or BMW M seriesin the twisties.
Will Option #1 do it: (I currently have this.)
1. Lowering Springs (Ford Racing springs)
2. Set of nice rubber 245front/275 rear (Nitto Extremes)
Will Option #2 do it:
1. All the above
2.Rear Sway bar
3.Lower control arms
Will Option #3 do it:
1.All the above
2. Upgraded shocks (ie. Tokico D-specs)
3.Adjustable Panhard Bar
Pop Quiz Question # 2: Which of the above options, at minimum, is needed to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat modified import class rides (Honda, Acura, Nissan Z's & Infinity's)in the twisties.
I just don't want to get burned by a honda in some hair pins. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror afterwards. LOL.
03-27-2008, 08:18 AM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 770
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
the simple answer is that you can't, and at minimum, you need to do everything.
have you ever driven an m3 or any bmw for that manner?
i have, and the mustang will never have the handling feel of an m3.
have you ever driven an m3 or any bmw for that manner?
i have, and the mustang will never have the handling feel of an m3.
03-27-2008, 11:58 AM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 284
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
My other car is a mercedes, but not the sport version. I would think lowering with some sway bar action would get the mustang to compete in clover leaf freeway passes or in the mountains.
What about modded imports?
What about modded imports?
03-27-2008, 02:52 PM
#5
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 2,179
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
yeah... it's not gonna happen. if you change every single suspension component, do an IRS swap, and have everything custom spec'd and tuned by a pro, you might be able to keep up.
for modded imports, you'll probably at leastneed all that you listed.
for modded imports, you'll probably at leastneed all that you listed.
03-27-2008, 05:51 PM
#6
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
I checked and in Canada the new BMW M3 is almost 3 times the price of a Mustang GT so they better providesomething for the money and the new M3 is a pretty awsome car.
If we come up against one during the track days this year I'll let you know how the lap times compare.
If we come up against one during the track days this year I'll let you know how the lap times compare.
03-27-2008, 06:18 PM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 284
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
Have you guys seen this video? I don't think that is imposible what you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezJU1nNGm9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdpkiHoUUnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezJU1nNGm9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdpkiHoUUnc
03-27-2008, 07:49 PM
#8
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
Really neat. It has been a long time since I've been to Mt Tremblant and that was as a spectator.
The Mustang was certainly the fastest car on the track in the second one. It would be nice to know what the relative skill levels were of the Mustang & M3 drivers.
MaybeI should let my brother out of his promise to not go after Porsches and Corvettes!
The Mustang was certainly the fastest car on the track in the second one. It would be nice to know what the relative skill levels were of the Mustang & M3 drivers.
MaybeI should let my brother out of his promise to not go after Porsches and Corvettes!
03-27-2008, 07:59 PM
#9
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
I think some of you naysayersare selling the stang a little short. I don't want argue the point, I really have no idea how well an M3 or S4 handles. But let me ask you a question - how would a C6 Corvette stack up against them? I suspect pretty well.
On this very forum, not more than a month ago, one of our esteemed members who is a road racer (don't remember the screen name) posted a video of himself chasing down vetts on a track. His car is not heavily modified although not stock, and he was hanging with the vettes just fine. His main advantage was in braking, he has a big brake kit installed. And...before you go saying the drivers must be poor...they were all instructors. Wish I could find that post.
On this very forum, not more than a month ago, one of our esteemed members who is a road racer (don't remember the screen name) posted a video of himself chasing down vetts on a track. His car is not heavily modified although not stock, and he was hanging with the vettes just fine. His main advantage was in braking, he has a big brake kit installed. And...before you go saying the drivers must be poor...they were all instructors. Wish I could find that post.
03-27-2008, 10:17 PM
#10
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 770
RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?
the mustang is a fantastic car for the price.
the corvette is also afantastic car for the price.
but handling has never been eitherone of their strong points. i mean, it's all relative (that is to say, they both handle "well") but the m3is often the benchmark, the pinnacle, of handling for premium auto makers.
sure, you can set up a mustang as a competenttrack car with gobs of money. but can you drivethat same cararound pot-holed roads and not break your teeth, not get stuck on speed bumps?
the m3 comes track ready and yet isalso aconsumate daily driver.
these comments from insideline should yield some perspective:
In our book, the 2008 BMW M3's damping setting of Comfort is the equivalent of a BMW 3 Series with a Sport Package suspension. In this softest setting, you'll be aware of road imperfections, but only the worst of them will be jarring. The Normal setting brings you the ride harshness of, say, a 2007 Porsche 911 GT3, a car that only gets a pass from us because it's so damned good at the track that we'll endure the occasional punishment with a toothy grin. Finally, Sport means exactly that, as it's meant for the racetrack. It's too abusive for anything but a billiard-smooth surface, which rarely occurs in nature (well, maybe the autobahn).
---
Yet the M3's talents run deeper than drag racing. As our test-driver says, "One of the fastest production cars we've tested through the slalom. Very easy to maintain control at the limit. Steering delivers excellent feel and response for the inputs given." Stitch together a run free of tipped-over cones and the result is a speed of 73 mph, a record for a car that's in volume production. Skid pad? The BMW M3 with its weight distribution of 51 percent front/49 percent rear plus a trick electronically controlled rear differential produces levels of grip you expect from a sports car, with a performance of 0.95g in lateral acceleration.
---
The new 2008 BMW M3 possesses a range of talent that few other automobiles can rival. On one hand, it drives like any other BMW 3 Series. But pull its hair, and the M3 transforms itself into a 400-hp hypercar. Like a champion barrel-racing horse, the M3 responds favorably to having its butt whipped once in a while.
Through its own engineering magic, BMW has somehow managed to give this everyday coupe the feel of a low-volume specialty car like the Porsche 911, only with a $50,000 discount.
---
Nevertheless, the extroverted 2008 BMW M3 Coupe wins both for its undeniable dominance on the test track and an incongruous ability to do so while remaining perfectly capable as an everyday car. Toss in a track day or an afternoon on any of the roads of which we're so fond, and the Audi S5 begins to feel slightly out of place.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125265
the corvette is also afantastic car for the price.
but handling has never been eitherone of their strong points. i mean, it's all relative (that is to say, they both handle "well") but the m3is often the benchmark, the pinnacle, of handling for premium auto makers.
sure, you can set up a mustang as a competenttrack car with gobs of money. but can you drivethat same cararound pot-holed roads and not break your teeth, not get stuck on speed bumps?
the m3 comes track ready and yet isalso aconsumate daily driver.
these comments from insideline should yield some perspective:
In our book, the 2008 BMW M3's damping setting of Comfort is the equivalent of a BMW 3 Series with a Sport Package suspension. In this softest setting, you'll be aware of road imperfections, but only the worst of them will be jarring. The Normal setting brings you the ride harshness of, say, a 2007 Porsche 911 GT3, a car that only gets a pass from us because it's so damned good at the track that we'll endure the occasional punishment with a toothy grin. Finally, Sport means exactly that, as it's meant for the racetrack. It's too abusive for anything but a billiard-smooth surface, which rarely occurs in nature (well, maybe the autobahn).
---
Yet the M3's talents run deeper than drag racing. As our test-driver says, "One of the fastest production cars we've tested through the slalom. Very easy to maintain control at the limit. Steering delivers excellent feel and response for the inputs given." Stitch together a run free of tipped-over cones and the result is a speed of 73 mph, a record for a car that's in volume production. Skid pad? The BMW M3 with its weight distribution of 51 percent front/49 percent rear plus a trick electronically controlled rear differential produces levels of grip you expect from a sports car, with a performance of 0.95g in lateral acceleration.
---
The new 2008 BMW M3 possesses a range of talent that few other automobiles can rival. On one hand, it drives like any other BMW 3 Series. But pull its hair, and the M3 transforms itself into a 400-hp hypercar. Like a champion barrel-racing horse, the M3 responds favorably to having its butt whipped once in a while.
Through its own engineering magic, BMW has somehow managed to give this everyday coupe the feel of a low-volume specialty car like the Porsche 911, only with a $50,000 discount.
---
Nevertheless, the extroverted 2008 BMW M3 Coupe wins both for its undeniable dominance on the test track and an incongruous ability to do so while remaining perfectly capable as an everyday car. Toss in a track day or an afternoon on any of the roads of which we're so fond, and the Audi S5 begins to feel slightly out of place.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125265