Notices
S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

The Driver Effect

Old 08-29-2008, 03:40 PM
  #11  
zero2sixd
1st Gear Member
 
zero2sixd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 100
Default

Originally Posted by Sleeper_08
I agree totally with the OP about the driver being the most important factor, especially after getting beat by a near stock Hyundai Accent at an Auto X event!
To be fair though, AX is setup to take away the Mustang's strength (straight line acceleration) and level the playing field. If you take that away, you're left with a big, heavy car trying to squeeze it's way through a tight course at (relatively) low speed. Now, an open road course, that's a different story.

All credit to Sam Strano who has ably demonstrated what the Mustang is capable of on an AX course, but it must be said that tires play a huge part in AX performance. If you put 295 series Hoosiers on your car and run an AX event it will offset a very large amount of seat time. In effect, they can negate the weight penalty that the Mustang has versus small cars such as a Hyundai Accent.

I'm not recommending you do this(!); just pointing out that tires have very dramatic effects on AX times regardless of whether you're a newbie or an expert driver.

Last edited by zero2sixd; 08-29-2008 at 03:43 PM.
zero2sixd is offline  
Old 08-29-2008, 03:55 PM
  #12  
Sleeper_08
4th Gear Member
 
Sleeper_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
Default

Originally Posted by zero2sixd
To be fair though, AX is setup to take away the Mustang's strength (straight line acceleration) and level the playing field. If you take that away, you're left with a big, heavy car trying to squeeze it's way through a tight course at (relatively) low speed. Now, an open road course, that's a different story.

All credit to Sam Strano who has ably demonstrated what the Mustang is capable of on an AX course, but it must be said that tires play a huge part in AX performance. If you put 295 series Hoosiers on your car and run an AX event it will offset a very large amount of seat time. In effect, they can negate the weight penalty that the Mustang has versus small cars such as a Hyundai Accent.

I'm not recommending you do this(!); just pointing out that tires have very dramatic effects on AX times regardless of whether you're a newbie or an expert driver.
At the AX event I mentioned above the FTD was posted by a Suburu WRX that arrived on a trailer. Sticky tires and all wheel drive really make a real difference!

I tried the AX event as it was a joint Mustang/F body meet but my real interest is lapping days and my car was set up for these and it is all I expected it to be and more. Now the budget goes for more seat time!

Last edited by Sleeper_08; 08-29-2008 at 09:09 PM.
Sleeper_08 is offline  
Old 08-29-2008, 07:41 PM
  #13  
jahudso2
4th Gear Member
 
jahudso2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,599
Default

Heel-Toe downshifting isn't something that needs to be learned at the track. I practice all the time in daily driving while coming up to stoplights/stopsigns. It helps to be able to learn your foot positioning while braking in a straight line in public rather than at the track where you are worrying about so much other stuff.
jahudso2 is offline  
Old 09-04-2008, 12:27 PM
  #14  
Sam Strano
Former Sponsor
 
Sam Strano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Default

Originally Posted by zero2sixd
To be fair though, AX is setup to take away the Mustang's strength (straight line acceleration) and level the playing field. If you take that away, you're left with a big, heavy car trying to squeeze it's way through a tight course at (relatively) low speed. Now, an open road course, that's a different story.

All credit to Sam Strano who has ably demonstrated what the Mustang is capable of on an AX course, but it must be said that tires play a huge part in AX performance. If you put 295 series Hoosiers on your car and run an AX event it will offset a very large amount of seat time. In effect, they can negate the weight penalty that the Mustang has versus small cars such as a Hyundai Accent.

I'm not recommending you do this(!); just pointing out that tires have very dramatic effects on AX times regardless of whether you're a newbie or an expert driver.
Appreciate the props--but the fact I run on Hoosier's has no bearing on this since everyone else I run against, at the level I run, also have R-comps (most of them Hoosiers, some Kumho's) so that's a bit of a moot point.......

Autox is a driver's game, and frankly most courses folks think favor small cars actually favor torquey cars. The more I can use the torque advantage, the better I'll do in most cases. Heartland Park Topeka, where we currently run Nationals, is not a huge site. The courses there are not as big or open as the courses we previously ran @ Forbes Field (which was also concrete vs. HPT's asphalt). I've done just fine @ HPT the last two years. In 2006 in my ESP class Camaro (way more power than the Mustang) I paxed 11th running 1st heat on Tu/W. Last year in the Mustang I paxed #1 running mid-day Th/F (better conditions), and the car that paxed 2nd was Mark Madarash in an ESP Firebird. This year I'm running the Mustang again, and we are running 1st heat Tu/W which means a course not as clean or rubbered in. We'll see how it goes....
Sam Strano is offline  
Old 09-04-2008, 10:45 PM
  #15  
zero2sixd
1st Gear Member
 
zero2sixd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 100
Default

Originally Posted by Sam Strano
Appreciate the props--but the fact I run on Hoosier's has no bearing on this since everyone else I run against, at the level I run, also have R-comps (most of them Hoosiers, some Kumho's) so that's a bit of a moot point.......

Autox is a driver's game, and frankly most courses folks think favor small cars actually favor torquey cars. The more I can use the torque advantage, the better I'll do in most cases. Heartland Park Topeka, where we currently run Nationals, is not a huge site. The courses there are not as big or open as the courses we previously ran @ Forbes Field (which was also concrete vs. HPT's asphalt). I've done just fine @ HPT the last two years. In 2006 in my ESP class Camaro (way more power than the Mustang) I paxed 11th running 1st heat on Tu/W. Last year in the Mustang I paxed #1 running mid-day Th/F (better conditions), and the car that paxed 2nd was Mark Madarash in an ESP Firebird. This year I'm running the Mustang again, and we are running 1st heat Tu/W which means a course not as clean or rubbered in. We'll see how it goes....

Agreed. Everyone else at your level is running those tires. My point (not so well made) was that a ****box car with wide sticky tires will do amazing things on an AX course vs. a normally faster car with OEM street tires.

And as for PAX times, well, I would have to believe that you are a major contributor in setting those PAX multipliers with your speed? As long as you keep raising the bar, you will continue to PAX near the top; at least as long as the Shelby GT remains in the class.

Good luck this year.

Last edited by zero2sixd; 09-04-2008 at 10:50 PM.
zero2sixd is offline  
Old 09-05-2008, 11:56 AM
  #16  
Sam Strano
Former Sponsor
 
Sam Strano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Default

Sure, I have some bearing on the PAX index becaue it's based on results from the biggest regions in the US as well as National results. The PAX for FS in 2007 was based on data from before and certainly helped me pax as well as I did. That said, this year F-stock's index jumped more than any other class.... and we are still paxing near the top at most every event. Basically the indexes are changed every year to reflect the speed shown the previous year.

I agree that R-comp tires are amazing, but remember that I'm running those 295's on 8.5" rims (have to be stock sized rims). Shoehorning them on doesn't help the wear, 275's wear better but the 295's are faster.
Sam Strano is offline  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:54 PM
  #17  
Sleeper_08
4th Gear Member
 
Sleeper_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
Default

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

I agree that R-comp tires are amazing, but remember that I'm running those 295's on 8.5" rims (have to be stock sized rims). Shoehorning them on doesn't help the wear, 275's wear better but the 295's are faster.

Sam

Are you running 295s on 8.5 inch rims on both front and rear?
Sleeper_08 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cr620
V6 (1994-2004) Mustangs
2
10-03-2022 10:18 PM
jerrytubes
2005-2014 Mustangs
2
10-23-2015 12:11 PM
TCStangerv6
Street/Strip
12
10-11-2015 05:57 PM
guitarman376
4.6L (1996-2004 Modular) Mustang
0
09-30-2015 05:54 PM
Drastang
4.6L (1996-2004 Modular) Mustang
2
09-30-2015 03:48 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: The Driver Effect



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 AM.