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Anti-Dive Kit

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Old 04-30-2009, 01:01 PM   #1
FauxShelby
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Default Anti-Dive Kit

Hi All,
I monitor this site all the time but have never posted until now. I'm a PR and marketing/Ad rep as well as an avid Mustang enthusiast, author and automotive Journalist. One of my clients is Global Performance Parts who is the exclusive distributor for Whiteline Suspension. They make an anti-dive kit that replaces the factory control arm bushing on S197 Mustangs. I'm curious to know if anyone has heard of this product before and if you have any comments or questions about it.

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Old 04-30-2009, 01:26 PM   #2
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Looks like it just replaces the front A-Arm hydra-bushings. Steeda sells a bushing kit that essentially does the exact same thing for less than a third of the price and is one of the most respected companies when it comes to Mustang suspension. I might be willing to give it a try if it was about $100. The only difference is that the White Line product offers caster adjustment and the Steeda has 2 different bushings that you can choose from depending on how much response and NVH you want. I doubt that you guys will sell much, if any, as long as you're trying to get $380 for em.
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:28 PM   #3
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Texotic,
Thanks for your feedback. It's much appreciated. I've discussed the price issue with Whiteline and they're considering a change. One of the things we need to get across is that the Whiteline Anti-Dive kit doesn't cause any noise problems. Steeda mentions that the bushing kit can generate some noise. I'm assuming urethane squeak? Steeda's other bushing kit is similar to the Whiteline but has a smaller diameter bushing and is intended for race applications only and no caster adjustment. Currently, 5.0 Mustangs is doing an install which should be out in the September 09 issue and we're interested to see how they liked it. We may also be willing to let one or two MustangForum members try one out if anyone is interested.

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Old 04-30-2009, 07:32 PM   #4
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I had a set of Whiteline bushings like these on my prior car, a Subaru WRX. The bushings were marketed as a solution to limit nose dive during braking and rear end squat on acceleration. The increase in NVH and road noise was slight, but not unbearable. I would assume they would do the same thing on the Mustang. Those looking to drag race probably wouldn't be interested in these because of the anti-squat. I have been interested in trying these to reduce nose dive in braking and to pick up more caster to improve turn in and on center tracking. I didn't realize they were so expensive though... I'd be interested in trying a set out.

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Old 05-01-2009, 09:41 AM   #5
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Thanks Blair,
Since you were the first to reply, I'll check on getting you a kit to try. Please send me an email with your information. Whiteline does make a huge line of suspension components for Subaru, Mitsubishi, Porsche and more. This is their first run in the Domestic car market. They liked the Mustang platform more than any other. With your permission, I can post an install article that can give everyone an idea of how its installed.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:37 AM   #6
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I'd be up for trying out the kit. I'm not sure the noise that steeda claims from a urethane squeak, I would assume it's just more road noise being transferred to the frame from the use of a stiffer bushing. When you look at their kit, they say that if you choose the black bushing instead of the red one, you get a lot more noise (due to it being a stiffer bushing). That leads me to believe that the noise they are talking about is actually just extra NVH that would have been eliminated by the hydra-bushing.

I would say that a tech article shouldn't be a problem. This is a tech section after all.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:39 PM   #7
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FauxShelby I sent you a PM.

Will Whiteline be offering a softer street oriented durometer on the bushings? I remember with the subarus they had hard yellow bushes that had more NVH and softer black street bushes. You could order the kit with either of the bushings. That might help alleviate the concerns some may have about noise.

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Old 05-02-2009, 11:54 AM   #8
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If you're looking into possibly sending a couple sets out for trials to members, and you're looking for any feedback from someone with a fully stock suspension, I'd love to give you guys a hand. As much as I'd have loved to start doing some things to the car to, real life always seems to get in the way somehow.

I'm not sure how difficult it is to find cars that haven't had the suspension modified in some way for you guys. So, if it's something that would help you out, I'd be plenty willing to.
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Old 05-02-2009, 05:28 PM   #9
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I'm using the Steeda front A-arm bushing kit with the harder rubber insert.

The Steeda kit compresses the stock hydra cushion bushing. There's no squeak, but maybe a slight increase in road vibration. Not a big deal to me since I'm already running H&R Supersports and D-specs set fairly stiff. I have Eibach swaybars set on the stiffest setting for the front as well.

Car still has dive on braking, which bothers the heck out of me. I had figured that it was the best that could be done with the s197.

It would be awesome if there was a fix for it.

I'd be up for comparing the Whiteline to the Steeda's that I'm running now.
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Old 05-02-2009, 06:57 PM   #10
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I would like to see the tech paper on this. I've been to the website and can't understand where the anti-dive comes from. It seems that it is only due to that fact that the bushing doesn't deform?

-Wayne
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:32 PM   #11
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^^ That's all I can figure... It doesn't look like it would actually make any geometry changes.
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:56 PM   #12
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There's some info on this page and a couple pdf's for download.

http://globalperformanceparts.com/pe...djustment-kit/

Looks like there's static camber adjustment, and the firmer bushing allows less dynamic caster change on acceleration and braking.

I see the mounting brackets are aluminum. These have been tested for fatigue cracking?

I thought there would be more material on the bracket instead of being a saddle clamp shape like a steel one.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonnw View Post
I would like to see the tech paper on this. I've been to the website and can't understand where the anti-dive comes from. It seems that it is only due to that fact that the bushing doesn't deform?

-Wayne
If the bottom of the strut is moved in such a way as to increase +caster, that tends to raise the SVIC and shorten the SVSA, which is an increase in anti-dive. I have not run any numbers. Can't yet anyway, haven't measured up the OE front stuff.

The new LCA bushing may also raise the rear pivot of the LCA, which gives a similar effect, and the two effects would add if in fact both are present. This one is just a guess at this point, and I'd need a single picture of the new part (#KCA 305) with the comparable OE piece held up in the same perspective for comparison to say for sure.

I'm not sure what the effect of reduced compliance would be.


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Old 05-02-2009, 10:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonnw View Post
I would like to see the tech paper on this. I've been to the website and can't understand where the anti-dive comes from. It seems that it is only due to that fact that the bushing doesn't deform?

-Wayne
That would put them miles of ahead of the typical Steeda response to technical questions. A real chance for the OP's client to make a great impression.

I do have a problem with this from the magazine article:

"At a retail price of less than $350, the Anti-Dive kit is much less expensive than upgrading to an aftermarket set of shock absorbers and coil springs, and is a great first-step in improving the handling performance of your vehicle at a reasonable cost."

I don't think this qualifies as a 'great first step' suspension mod and leading the magazine reading newb population to believe so is the same kind of over-hyping b.s. too many vendors still think is ok.
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Old 05-02-2009, 10:32 PM   #15
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Agreed. Totally not a first step.

More like something to do after everything else.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:33 AM   #16
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Thanks for the input guys. I'll see what I can do about getting a couple of samples for some of you to try. In the mean time, I'll post a short install article as soon as I can compile all the images and text. Hopefully it will give you a better understanding of how it works. Realistically, I don't think you can fully eliminate nose dive under braking, but the way I understand it, the bushing, mount and the use of a larger sleeve over the factory control arm spigot changes the dynamics of the weight transfer.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:22 PM   #17
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I sent you a PM, but just let me know the timing on when you could get the kits out. I'm going to be installing coil-overs and new sways within the next month I think and would like to get this kit put in beforehand so I can feel the difference from stock.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:19 PM   #18
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Default Installing A Whiteline Anti-Dive Kit

Here's the article I promised to post. I hope it helps answer some questions.


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The S197 Mustang’s tendency to nose-dive is mostly due to the big, soft, rubber bushings located on the vehicle’s front lower control arms. According to the engineers at Whiteline, the factory bushing can’t absorb all of the vehicle’s weight that shifts forward so it has a tendency to flex, changing the geometry of the control arm during braking. The result is that it allows the center of gravity to move over the vehicle and push down on the front end causing nose dive.

According to Whiteline Automotive the Anti-Dive kit is not just a bushing replacement. The Whiteline urethane bushing is designed to force the inertia under braking to move along the vehicle, rather than over it, by resetting the front to rear control arm geometry. This moves the vehicle’s energy along the vehicle, rather than over it. The bushing itself is also designed to be stronger than the factory, but not as hard as a full-race bushing, making it a good compromise for street driving and the occasional weekend race.

In addition, Whiteline added a built-in camber adjustment that improves steering response. For high-speed cornering enthusiasts, this two-point static caster adjustment (up to 0.75-degrees) allows you to exit out of corners faster, which can improve your lap times at autocrosses or on the road course. The mounting bracket itself is made from aircraft grade billet aluminum that has not failed under constant road course testing and is the same material used in the company’s popular road racing suspension products.

We visited the JBA Performance Center in San Diego, California, where the owner of a 2007 model GT recently upgraded his brake system; which only helped to dramatically pronounce the vehicle’s nose dive under braking. The installation required unbolting the Mustang’s rack and pinion steering unit and moving it forward slightly. This allows enough clearance to remove the lower control arm bolts. The lower control arm is removed from the vehicle and with the aid of a press, you can remove the factory bushing. The JBA technicians used a puller to push the bushing out from its center sleeve. If you don’t do this correctly however, you’ll merely push out the outer sleeve and be left with the bushing’s fluid all over the floor and the inner rubber still attached to the sleeve around the control arm spigot.

The Whiteline Anti-Dive sleeve is pressed into place on the control arm and the new bushing is greased and slid into position. The mounting brackets allow for offset mounting washers that, depending on how they are inserted, can increase or reduce the vehicle’s caster. We decided to increase the caster to add greater steering response and installed the washers so that the offset is positioned towards the center of the vehicle.

On the street and highway, there was a dramatic reduction in the vehicle’s nose dive under moderate to hard braking. We also didn’t notice any road noise from the vehicle and the ride was not changed from stock. On the street, you don’t really notice the caster change in the steering geometry but on a short road course, we could feel the difference in the steering response when turning into corners. Exiting corners at higher speeds, however, it was easier and quicker to unwind the steering wheel and accelerate out faster.

We were concerned at first that some of the factory bushings had heat shields to protect the bushing from the heat generated by the catalytic converters. The Whiteline Anti-Dive kit comes with heat shield brackets if your Mustang is so equipped. On this 2007, there were none but after several months of driving, the owner reports no effect of heat, discoloration or distortion of the urethane bushings.

The Whiteline Anti-Dive kit retails around $308 and if you’re handy with tools and have access to a lift you can install it yourself.

Sources:
Whiteline Automotive
Global Performance Parts
4554 128th Ave.
Holland, MI 49424
616-399-9025

JBA Performance Center
5135 Convoy St.
San Diego, CA 92111
888-522-5570



Click the image to open in full size.
The factory control arm bushing is large and flexes under braking, allowing for increased nose dive.


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The Anti-Dive Kit from Whiteline Suspension uses polyurethane bushings and aluminum mounts that control the weight transfer along the frame of the vehicle.

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With the vehicle properly supported, remove the wheels and begin by unbolting the spindle from the lower control arm.

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Loosen the clamp for the steering column U-joint. This will allow greater movement of the rack and pinion steering.

Click the image to open in full size.
Unbolt the rack and pinion steering unit and move it forward an inch or two. This will give you enough clearance to remove the front control arm bolts.

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Here you can see how the extra clearance is necessary to remove the front control arm bolts.

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At the rear of the control arm, unbolt the bushing mount from the frame and the entire control arm can be removed.

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Here you can see the large control arm bushing that must be removed.

Click the image to open in full size.
Using a press and this puller, we made sure that the bushing gets pressed out from the center sleeve. If you miss, you’ll end up with fluid all over the place and the rubber bushing will still be attached.

Click the image to open in full size.
The new Anti-Dive sleeve is inserted over the control arm spigot using a press.

Click the image to open in full size.
The Anti-Dive urethane bushing is installed and the control arm, along with the rack and pinion unit, steering U-joint and spindle are bolted back into position.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:38 PM   #19
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Looks good!
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:13 PM   #20
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As one who has gone through "unbolting the Mustang’s rack and pinion steering unit and moving it forward slightly" don't underestimate the difficulty of this task. The two bolts to be loosened are large and difficult to get at.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:13 PM
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