Danno-23

Thanks for the insight F1, and Norm. So I guess you guys hate the H&R Race Springs. I was ready and set to buy the Steeda Competition springs today instead, but do not want my car riding higher in the front than the rear, and I do not want to cut a coil off the springs. I can't bring myself to do it.

All work will be performed by me. Im competent, trust me, I can keep a Contour running.

Car is not driven in the winter, but the roads are nothing for show around here, or anywhere else in Canada obviously. So I am happy with a 1 inch drop, and not subjecting the dampers to salt.

So, I think the set up I have listed falls into my budget. And I have to order this gear like tonight or tomorrow so I can pick it all up in Maine after my ski trip next week. Giving me a tax / duty / shipping break.

So, I am happy with the Koni Sports, and Comparable swaybars rather it be Steeda Ultimate Mustang Swaybar kit, or the Eibach f&r adjustable. I just need someone to tell me what the stiffest springs are I can get for this set up without slamming it to the pavement, and not touching the Steeda Competitions.

Car will be driven like an animal all of its life. As of right now it has 48000km on it (10,000 from me), and probably only seen the rain a handfull of times in its life. This year is likely just autoslalom (autocross), as it is fairly new to me and I still owe a decent chunk on it. Unlikely will be running R-comps unless I find some used 17 inchers to fit my old rims. Next year will potentianlly see some lapping.

So to sum this up - STIFFEST SPRING for non coilover suspension (with a conservative lowering)

F1Fan

So you are going to stick with a stock type McPherson strut for the $300 difference in cost the reliable, proven and complete Koni based Ground Control coilover system would cost? I gotta say this is not the best value option even with the higher price tag for a car that is going to be driven like an animal.

If you want to put a competent suspension on your S197 chassis The GC Mustang coilover kit would be the centerpiece of that suspension. I would suggest adding a few compliance and geometry improvers and learn to drive it on the wheels and tires you have. Then upgrade the wheels and tires and see if you need more roll rate or want to change handling balance.

$1,600 GC Coilover kit, complete go with a higher spring rate 350lb/in or higher and about 200lb/in rear to retain O.K. rear ride I went to 225# then 250# and 200# was the sweet spot for the 350# fronts But see what GC says when you tell them what you expect to do with the car.

With these higher spring rates I suggest adding as much stiffness as you can to the chassis to help it last longer.

$ 65 Steeda G-Trac Brace or your choice of any chrome-moly one piece equivalent brace
$ 200 Your chioce of any 2-element one piece chrome-moly strut brace

$ 305 Steeda Competition rear UCA/mount w/bushings, use this link to set DS pinion angle, use the forward pick-up point on the mount to improve rear IC under acceleration and braking. It's not much but it is better.

$ 140 Steeda SLA tubular rear LCAs w/poly bushings no need for adjustable
OR for a noticably smoother quieter ride but not quite a good location
$ 140 FRPP GT500 rear LCAs

$ 265 Steeda Adjustable Panhard bar w/Panhard Brace, light, storng and very stiff

This is only $2,500 and will be better than 95% of the drivers out there on decent wheels and tires. Start with these and see what you would change and go from there.

HTH!

hwm3

Hate to disagree, but I think you're confused. I have the H&R Race springs with Koni Sports on my car now. They surely aren't soft and don't ride on the bumpstops.

F1Fan

Next time you have a few hours to kill and you are going to be under the car measure the static ride height from top of the fender to the axle centerline front and rear. Put the car on the lift and remove wheels and tires. Remove the lower rear damper bolt and lower the axle to remove the spring and do the same for the front by putting a jack under the front LCA and compress the spring 1/2" and gun the strut nut off. Slowly lower the jack on the front LCA until you can remove the spring. Use the jack to raise the front axle threading the strut rod through the camber plates and fasten the strut nut. Keep raising the front axle to the static ride height measurement and then measure the gap between the bump stop and the damper top. Keep raising the front axle until the bumpstop is fully compressed and the chassis is being supported by the jack. Measure it again from the axle to the fender top then let the axle droop being sure to hold the strut fully seated in the camber plate. Measure the total droop. This is all good stuff you should have to know where you are at. Check out the small amount of travel you have in front before you bottom out. Do the same for the rear axle. You will find that you are closer to the bump stop than you think. Your car will handle much better is the chassis NEVER rides on the bumpstops. You can also test this using zip ties or modeling clay on the bump stops and drive around the block. I guarantee the clay will be flat with these springs.

JAJ

I agree with you. With all due respect, I think the H&R Race Springs have been confused with Eibach Prokit springs with the same drop. The H&R's are very firm and they definitely don't bottom. I switched to them at the end of track day season last year and gained 5 seconds a lap the first time out, which put me within about 10 seconds a lap of the more heavily prepared Porsches and BMW's. The H&R's are definitely not poser equipment.

I have a set of JRZ RS Pro coil overs waiting to be installed for next season.

hwm3

Exactly my experience. There is definitely some confusion here. If the H&R race springs constantly hit the bumpstops, Eibach ProKits live there. The ProKits are far softer and less than 1/2" taller on my car.

Norm Peterson

Or perhaps it's confusion with H&R's "Super Sports", which provide more drop with less rate than the Race springs?


"Hate" is too strong a word for me to apply against a specific manufacturer's product short of having experienced catastrophic failure with it. I just don't care for the configuration.

I'll admit to having bias against variable-rate "lowering" springs. If they're truly progressive - though I doubt that many are - the damping won't ever be quite right at every point of suspension travel.

If they're dual-rate, you'll typically be way overdamped for the soft rate, without the shock being able to accommodate the rate shift (short of designing your own position-sensitive dampers to suit your springs and your car). Near as I can tell, these things are a poor-ish attempt at mimicking a coilover spring arrangement that incorporates a very light tender spring whose only function is to keep the spring assembly from falling out of the upper seat at full droop. Poor-ish because the closely-wound coils are just as stiff as the "working rate coils", meaning they'll start becoming "active" substantially before the spring unloads completely.

I happen to have a set of H&R springs on the 626 (not sure offhand which ones, as it's been a few years and I'm too lazy to dive through a stack of invoices). At rest, the closely spaced front coils show small gaps, and the close rear coils are stacked solid, so the car is commonly operating on the soft rate up front and the firm rate out back. They also lowered the car by more than advertised and dropped the roll centers way too far. I ended up spacing all four strut mounts downward (I think by about 1.75") just to get tire rub during cornering roll to go away and restore the roll centers to somewhere near sane heights.



Norm

Sam Strano

H&R Race springs actually handle very well, if the road is smooth. They ride like ***. And this gets bashed to death, but some folks just ignore this detail. A Progressive spring may or may not be functionally/dynamically progressive. H&R's are not. All one would have to do is look at the spring installed on a car sitting on the ground (or on a lift, but on it's wheels/tires). Those people would find that the "soft" coils are dead or touching and out of the working rate. What's left is linear. LOTS of progressive springs are this way, they aren't all this way, so you can't say that all progressive springs have a dynamic rate change issue (which is what is understood and said a lot, even when it's not true).

That said, I'd never recommend H&R race for a street car. They are brutal.

Let's touch on a few other things, like the GC kit. Those struts are NOT production Mustang Koni's. They do not have the lifetime warranty. They are something else put in a housing to fit this car. Apples and oranges.

Bumpstops. ALL the springs for these cars can and will cause contact with the stops. That's not in an of itself a problem. Bumpstops are not BAD things. But if you rely solely on them, or don't control how the car contacts and comes off them, *that* is a problem.

Steeda has a lot of springs and I carry them all, including Comps. Comps aren't all that stiff.... in fact there are a lot of "normal" lowering springs that are stiffer. In fact, Steeda Ultralites are stiffer than Comps. I use Comps a lot on GT500's are "sport" type springs. FWIW I've owned and driven on all the springs mentioned here.

JAJ

Yup. That's why my winter setup is the "Frankensuspension": FRPP "P" springs in the rear with Koni Yellows, and Steeda Boss 302 front springs on Bilstein struts up front. Handles great, rides ok, good ride height for snowies, etc. I actually did a track day in January on the snow tires, and with this whacko setup I was turning laps faster on a wet track than I was on RComps at the start of last season in the dry. Go figure.

When I ran the H&R Race springs at the track, I found that the Koni yellows were at the limit for having enough damping for the H&R Race springs. They drove ok (smooth track) but it wouldn't have hurt to have another half-turn or so on the dampers.

F1Fan

Guys, realize this thread was started some 4 years ago and my comments addressed the first gen S197 chassis and then current aftermarket sport springs. In the mean time those of you with better experiences with the H&R Race springs are on the later heavier chassis variation which utilize different springs all together. FYI some of the earlier sport springs have been changed in later production even though they have the same numbers screened on them.