S197 GT Spring Rates and Heights (no guessing allowed)
10-12-2009, 11:42 PM
#41
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
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Truth be told- most of these lowering springs will work on stock dampers. The real questions are for how long AND how well. The answers are for not long (or significantly less compared with the stock springs), and the ride will not be that great (possibly bouncy).
It's easy to forget that even companies like Roush and Shelby are still trying to make money.
It's easy to forget that even companies like Roush and Shelby are still trying to make money.
10-13-2009, 05:47 AM
#42
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11
Because it's what they want you to believe, and most don't know any better. Makes it a lot easier to sell springs if folks think what they have already is fine for the job....
Sad, but true--and the fact I won't do that is a good part of the reason I'm not rich. Damn-it.
Sad, but true--and the fact I won't do that is a good part of the reason I'm not rich. Damn-it.
10-13-2009, 06:10 AM
#43
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11
Truth be told- most of these lowering springs will work on stock dampers. The real questions are for how long AND how well. The answers are for not long (or significantly less compared with the stock springs), and the ride will not be that great (possibly bouncy).
It's easy to forget that even companies like Roush and Shelby are still trying to make money.
It's easy to forget that even companies like Roush and Shelby are still trying to make money.
10-13-2009, 09:25 AM
#44
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Truth be told- most of these lowering springs will work on stock dampers. The real questions are for how long AND how well. The answers are for not long (or significantly less compared with the stock springs), and the ride will not be that great (possibly bouncy).
It's easy to forget that even companies like Roush and Shelby are still trying to make money.
It's easy to forget that even companies like Roush and Shelby are still trying to make money.
10-13-2009, 09:31 AM
#45
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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I hear you. i think i'm going to stay away from those springs because it just doesn't make sense and they don't give you enough specific information to make an informed decision. trying to find some kind of matched set (springs and shocks) but nobody seems to have exactly what i'm looking for.
Just because something claims to be a "matched set" doesn't mean it's actually good. In fact there are a number of matched sets of springs and shocks around for the cars I deal with most (Mustangs and F-bodies both), and I don't like any of them because they are all compromises built for the masses, not for discriminating folks who want a car to drive a certain way. In fact this is one reason I am so high on adjustable dampers, because you can make a lot of changes to the feel and response of the car, and even if you want, change spring rates and have the damper there to control it.
And as for the "bounce" where the headlights jiggle. That generally comes from being slammed with little to no travel in the suspension. Most springs for these cars aren't that way. A lack of proper shock damping on this car leads to impact harshness, and feeling like the car isn't down in the road, but floating on top.
10-14-2009, 06:33 AM
#46
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 11
Hang on a second now. You shouldn't be scared of springs. Fact is there are a number of better dampers out there that can handle lowering springs. My cars are lowered, and work very well.
Just because something claims to be a "matched set" doesn't mean it's actually good. In fact there are a number of matched sets of springs and shocks around for the cars I deal with most (Mustangs and F-bodies both), and I don't like any of them because they are all compromises built for the masses, not for discriminating folks who want a car to drive a certain way. In fact this is one reason I am so high on adjustable dampers, because you can make a lot of changes to the feel and response of the car, and even if you want, change spring rates and have the damper there to control it.
And as for the "bounce" where the headlights jiggle. That generally comes from being slammed with little to no travel in the suspension. Most springs for these cars aren't that way. A lack of proper shock damping on this car leads to impact harshness, and feeling like the car isn't down in the road, but floating on top.
Just because something claims to be a "matched set" doesn't mean it's actually good. In fact there are a number of matched sets of springs and shocks around for the cars I deal with most (Mustangs and F-bodies both), and I don't like any of them because they are all compromises built for the masses, not for discriminating folks who want a car to drive a certain way. In fact this is one reason I am so high on adjustable dampers, because you can make a lot of changes to the feel and response of the car, and even if you want, change spring rates and have the damper there to control it.
And as for the "bounce" where the headlights jiggle. That generally comes from being slammed with little to no travel in the suspension. Most springs for these cars aren't that way. A lack of proper shock damping on this car leads to impact harshness, and feeling like the car isn't down in the road, but floating on top.
thanks for the good input.
10-14-2009, 11:18 AM
#47
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,291
True, there are several decent dampers out there. I was just trying to point out that running any lowering / performance spring on the stock dampers will not yield good results.
I gave up on trying to ask damper companies what their valving is. It seems that many companies don't want to tell you what the true specs are. They just want to advertise that they're the best out there. It's hard for me to buy something when they refuse to answer my questions.
I still vote that this thread should be a sticky.
I gave up on trying to ask damper companies what their valving is. It seems that many companies don't want to tell you what the true specs are. They just want to advertise that they're the best out there. It's hard for me to buy something when they refuse to answer my questions.
I still vote that this thread should be a sticky.
10-14-2009, 01:12 PM
#48
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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D-specs are ok, I am a Tokico and Vogtland dealer both. Some places bastardize pricing because they can just sit back and let folks like me handle the tech. Spending less time with pertinent information is an easy way to sell more parts. I'd ask folks to remember that when looking to order items.
I changed from D-spec to Koni's and ever looked back. The Sports are better dampers, and better built, and better warrantied. Fronts are out of stock which is a problem, and we'll use D-specs when we have to, but they just aren't as good a damper or quality.
As for companies releasing specs. I understand why, because in this day and age folks are too willing to judge on what seems vs. what is, and other companies are all too willing to steal information that's let out. I've had it happen to me, and I don't like it. Further, to try to explain to someone that a progressive spring isn't necessarily actually progressive while it's working is very hard to do. In fact most progressive (not all) springs are actually linear in their working rate. But that's something that doesn't get discussed on the internet.
Regarding shock "valving". Companies use different codes for vavlings, you can't compare the valving unless you run the same dyno test @ the same piston speeds on two different shocks. I've done this on a D-spec vs. a Koni Sport and know the differences. But because of what I mentioned above it's not information I'll share in a public forum. It's work product, and it's that type of work that I have to protect, lest folks take my information and run to the cheapest place they can find.
I changed from D-spec to Koni's and ever looked back. The Sports are better dampers, and better built, and better warrantied. Fronts are out of stock which is a problem, and we'll use D-specs when we have to, but they just aren't as good a damper or quality.
As for companies releasing specs. I understand why, because in this day and age folks are too willing to judge on what seems vs. what is, and other companies are all too willing to steal information that's let out. I've had it happen to me, and I don't like it. Further, to try to explain to someone that a progressive spring isn't necessarily actually progressive while it's working is very hard to do. In fact most progressive (not all) springs are actually linear in their working rate. But that's something that doesn't get discussed on the internet.
Regarding shock "valving". Companies use different codes for vavlings, you can't compare the valving unless you run the same dyno test @ the same piston speeds on two different shocks. I've done this on a D-spec vs. a Koni Sport and know the differences. But because of what I mentioned above it's not information I'll share in a public forum. It's work product, and it's that type of work that I have to protect, lest folks take my information and run to the cheapest place they can find.