Mkay. Post salvage job suspension/handling questions

GhostHorse · 10-07-2009, 11:07 AM

Some of you have heard the saga of my 06 GT until you're likely sick of it, but so those not familiar with it will understand why I'm asking if these will be useful parts, let me explain:

It was wrecked in the front end when we bought it. Salvaged. I kept the car because there was NO WAY we could re-sell it through our small dealership given that the title was a Salvage title. That and I just feel sorry for abused and mistreated or neglected Mustangs. After replacing 95% of the front end with new Ford parts, and straightening the frame as much as we possibly could without tearing it apart, it still had to have a strut mount SPC camber kit (the type you typically need when lowering it) applied to the passenger side strut. It then had to be 'slotted' (strut tower top cut out in a 'slot' pattern) to allow the alignment shop to pull it into alignment. The strut was pulled 1.5 inches toward the fender.

It is not pretty under there, but it is aligned almost perfectly now. I read the read-outs. It was done by an alignment shop that I trust and is managed by a close friend of ours. The frame work was done by my brother personally at the body shop he owns. He knows his work.

I say all that because I know someone is going to say, You should have worked the frame over more or that the alignment shop did a hack job. I don't like the way it was resolved, but after a butt load of research and checking around with knowledgeable people I trust, that's the way it had to be.

Now. My alignment guy feels a strut tower brace *might* be beneficial to have as the alignment 'settles'. I trust his opinion and realize it may or may not help at all, but they're relatively inexpensive and I like the way they look anyway.

What I need to know is this and I'm sorry it was a long post to get this one part: I need to know if the stock GT suspension already has an A Arm support. I know it has sway bars, but not sure about the A Arm support. Also, given what I've told you about the alignment issues, do any of you feel it would help to have it?

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Norm Peterson · 10-07-2009, 11:56 AM

At least the late '08 GT's feature a lower tie bar that runs between the rear attachments of the front control arms (mine does, and it's a calendar year 2008 build). I don't think that all of the earlier cars did, as there are aftermarket versions of this piece available. That one's a good mod anyway.

Normally, I don't consider an STB worth doing for performance reasons in a street-driven car, as it doesn't add much overall chassis stiffness. In fairness though, they do tend to reduce NVH a bit. In this particular situation it might be a good idea, simply because there are more unknowns due to the accident and subsequent repair.

If nothing else, the ease (or not) of fitting these things up will provide some sort of check on how well everything was able to be returned to their positions relative to each other.

Norm

GhostHorse · 10-07-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

In this particular situation it might be a good idea, simply because there are more unknowns due to the accident and subsequent repair.
If nothing else, the ease (or not) of fitting these things up will provide some sort of check on how well everything was able to be returned to their positions relative to each other.

Norm

That was my thought, that it would be a good gauge to see how well everything is back in place, and also I agree with you on the 'unknown' factors - plus, its not like either of these parts cost a large chunk of change.

So am I correct, the 06 GT's do not already have the A arm support? (Edit. You already answered that, Norm. Sorry!)

Sam Strano · 10-07-2009, 03:55 PM

I think given the fact the car was hit so hard a STB is really smart. But you'd want an adjustable one to make sure it fits, something like this one http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=34&ModelID=5, as opposed to a fixed length unit that built to fit towers that haven't been *ahem*... moved.

14901490 · 10-07-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

At least the late '08 GT's feature a lower tie bar that runs between the rear attachments of the front control arms (mine does, and it's a calendar year 2008 build). I don't think that all of the earlier cars did, as there are aftermarket versions of this piece available. That one's a good mod anyway.

Normally, I don't consider an STB worth doing for performance reasons in a street-driven car, as it doesn't add much overall chassis stiffness. In fairness though, they do tend to reduce NVH a bit. In this particular situation it might be a good idea, simply because there are more unknowns due to the accident and subsequent repair.

If nothing else, the ease (or not) of fitting these things up will provide some sort of check on how well everything was able to be returned to their positions relative to each other.

Norm

Norm,
what's your opinion on the Edelbrock 3 point strut tower brace that also ties into the firewall? - for a track driven application.

Norm Peterson · 10-07-2009, 07:17 PM

Potentially a good bit better than any 2-point. Just how much depends on how good the firewall structure is at that attachment point.

The third point not only ties the strut towers into a more-or-less transverse bulkhead; it also reduces general chassis bending under heavy braking (think how the A-pillars at the roof would move with respect to the strut towers).

A rather opinionated individual on a 3rd Gen F-body board has actually made some measurements of this sort of movement.

My take is that there is a better solution still, provided that you can make it all fit (4-point with longitudinals and X-bracing tied off as close to the A-pillars as realistically possible). Nobody makes such a piece for any US domestic car that I know of, but I've seen where it was use to brace the front trunk space in 911 Porsches.

Norm

pascal · 10-07-2009, 09:25 PM

If you have a kink (sometimes hard to see) where the shock tower is connected to the frame rail, you'll always have a weak point there...
If you can correct your symmetry with a tower brace, it is a good idea to go back to that very spot and weld a couple of beads between the rail and tower.
You can see it on this picture...

GT Bob · 10-07-2009, 11:07 PM

I can say with certainty that the Late 2007's came with the A arm braces as well. I beleive they started standard in the 08's and most later production 07's got the.

AS for the STB... I also had an accident that needed the frame to be pulled back out (not as bad as yours) and I can feel a HUGE difference in my car with the brace on from when it's off. An adjustable piece like the one Sam showed would likely be what yours going to need. I was lucky and able to fit a fixed position one in, but again, my car was no where near as bad as your. I hafta laugh at everyone who says that the STBs are a waste... In 7 to 10 years, those same guys will be crying that their car is about as stiff as overcooked spagetti.

Norm Peterson · 10-08-2009, 07:22 AM

On an undamaged S197, the right reason for adding an STB is to reduce NVH (the end result being what you feel - or don't feel any more). What you feel through your hands, feet, seat, and ears does not necessarily indicate an improvement in general chassis stiffness that's anywhere near as significant. Long-term durability could be enhanced if you insist on driving over poorish roads as if you were in an SUV equipped with off-road tires.

On a repaired car, there's a much better argument with respect to STBs and added stiffness in that any little wrinkles left in the repaired sheetmetal represent a reduction in stiffness. The STB probably won't bring you up above the level of undamaged OE general chassis stiffness, but "losing less" is still a relative "win" here.

Norm

GhostHorse · 10-08-2009, 07:37 AM

Thanks Norm! I always love reading your replies! Not only helpful, but you explain why a thing will or will not work/be helpful, etc.

AND! Let me just say!

I DIDN'T WRECK THE CAR! (sacrilege! defilement!) LOL The former and 1st owner did! After tracking his name through public records, the car appears to be a product of a third divorce in five years to the same woman! And it was an ugly divorce too! Seems the date of purchase was within the same week the LAST decree was signed, and the accident seemed to coincide with his ex was attempting to serve him with another court action that would have ratcheted up his child support. He received several citations, one of which was a DUI. He apparently launched it off a dirt road into a bar ditch Dukes of Hazzard style.

Oddly, the airbags were not blown. Took me a LOT of scrubbing to get the old blood cleaned up. *gags* Apparently 'is node wha bokun. *nose was broken*

As for the STB - my alignment guru feels the solid one will work but yes, an adjustable one would be preferable.