Whats needed to do suspension?

[NDN GQ]

I've been doing a lot of searching and reading but am still a bit unclear so I appologise if this question has been answered several times. From my reading what I came up with is that the rear end goes off center a little and that needs to be corrected, the strut mounts cant be reused or shouldnt be reused, camber plates or bolts are necessary? Dont worry I outline the questions better below. What I know When doing springs, shocks/struts should be changed (from previous experiences) Sway/strut bars help a lot of tighter cornering and body roll (from previous experiences) What I dont know What a panhard bar? (everyone calls it something different) Where do I get one? Are camber bolts better or should I get a camber kit? Again, where do I buy? Outside of a Spring/Strut set what else do I need to buy so that all I need is an alignment and the car is roadworth and upto spec? Thanks Rish

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[RodeoFlyer]

You cannot possibly have done any amount of research before posting. Try one of these -

1. Read the sticky in this section about lowering your mustang. 408 replies says there's something in there.

2. Click on a link for one of the various site sponsors

3. MM&FF, 5.0, ModifiedMustangs - buy a copy. Better yet - subscribe.

4. Google is your friend.

[Argonaut]

Originally Posted by NDN GQ

What I know
When doing springs, shocks/struts should be changed (from previous experiences) Yes - good advice
Sway/strut bars help a lot of tighter cornering and body roll (from previous experiences)Maybe...maybe not. Depends on the car, usage and what other mods you have. For example - lowering springs are going to be stiffer and thus you will already have less body roll and "tighter" handling, so sways are probably not needed.

What I dont know
What a panhard bar? (everyone calls it something different) Where do I get one? You already have one - look under the rear of your car. Its the bar that runs at an angle. When lowering the car you *may* need an adjustable one, some folks do, some folks don't, depends on how much you lower it.

Are camber bolts better or should I get a camber kit? Again, where do I buy? Not sure what a "camber kit" is. When you lower a car, the front wheels will tilt in (top of wheel tilts in towards the car). This is called negative camber. Too much negative camber and you will wear the inside of your tires. Camber bolts are one method of 'tilting' the wheels back out. Camber plates are another way of doing it. The bolts are far cheaper but not recommended for serious use like on a race track, fine for street use.

Outside of a Spring/Strut set what else do I need to buy so that all I need is an alignment and the car is roadworth and upto spec? This has got to be the single most asked question in this section. The literally thousands of answers that can be found with a search must be confusing because folks keep asking this. I guess the problem is...there is no single answer that works for everyone. It really depends on you, your usage, your car and how much you are lowering the car. I recommend you either call an expert like Sam Strano (stranoparts.com) or read thru the big sticky at the top.

Thanks
Rish

Good luck - Brad.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by NDN GQ

Sway/strut bars help a lot of tighter cornering and body roll (from previous experiences)

Stiffer sta-bars will reduce the amount of roll - and they can also alter the handling either toward more understeer, less understeer, or maybe even into oversteer. If the roads are poor in your area, tweaking your cornering/handling with bars tends to be associated with a slightly smaller ride quality penalty than accomplishing the same handling balance with springs. This assumes that you actually drive hard enough for these things to matter much (no flame intended, but most of the average driving public does NOT drive hard enough).

What a panhard bar? (everyone calls it something different) Where do I get one?

Other than "track bar" in NASCAR or other roundy-round racing, and the common "PHB" abbreviation, how else have you heard this part described? I'm being serious here, and "Panhard rod" doesn't count as a separate term.

Are camber bolts better or should I get a camber kit? Again, where do I buy?

I'm not sure that I'd run camber bolts in street duty if the roads in my area were particularly poor. Maybe I would if I drove a whole lot less enthusiastically than I do, but if that was the case I probably wouldn't mess with the suspension in the first place.

Outside of a Spring/Strut set what else do I need to buy so that all I need is an alignment and the car is roadworth and upto spec?

Thanks
Rish

First things first. Decide how much lower and what do you want the car to be better at doing. Decide if you want adjustable struts and shocks (more $ but a better chance of finding the right damping setting if that matters to you) That'll narrow down the spring/strut/shock choices a bit. Roadworthy probably involves newer design fine thread strut to knuckle fasteners that take a slightly higher installation torque. Important if you drive hard, really important if you compete at autocross or take the car open-tracking.

Up to spec = ?
I'm only guessing, but if you get into the hard cornering part of the automotive hobby much, the preferred OE settings may not be appropriate any longer.


Norm

[jayel579]

I think the one problem with your question is you never stated what your intentions for the car are? Autocross, Track events. Drag Racing, DD etc.. What does the car do that you do not like then you may get a more clear response.

[NDN GQ]

Originally Posted by Argonaut

Good luck - Brad.

Thanks for your detailed response Brad. This is my first RWD car so I'm not familiar with some of the terminology. The fact that I need an adjustable Panhard Bar makes things a lot more clearer. A Camber Kit is what we used to call camber plates on my previous car. I understand negative and positive cambers and how they affect driving and tire wear. Thanks for that explanation as well.

You are indeed correct, I've read through the sticky twice and I was unable to come up with any concrete answers hence why I asked. I guess I'll have to do it the old fashioned way, pull the trigger and see where it goes. I plan to drop between 1" to 1.5". I know thats a huge difference but i'm not sure which springs I'm exactly going with as of right now. I'll have to follow up with Sam.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Stiffer sta-bars will reduce the amount of roll - and they can also alter the handling either toward more understeer, less understeer, or maybe even into oversteer. If the roads are poor in your area, tweaking your cornering/handling with bars tends to be associated with a slightly smaller ride quality penalty than accomplishing the same handling balance with springs. This assumes that you actually drive hard enough for these things to matter much (no flame intended, but most of the average driving public does NOT drive hard enough).



Other than "track bar" in NASCAR or other roundy-round racing, and the common "PHB" abbreviation, how else have you heard this part described? I'm being serious here, and "Panhard rod" doesn't count as a separate term.



I'm not sure that I'd run camber bolts in street duty if the roads in my area were particularly poor. Maybe I would if I drove a whole lot less enthusiastically than I do, but if that was the case I probably wouldn't mess with the suspension in the first place.



First things first. Decide how much lower and what do you want the car to be better at doing. Decide if you want adjustable struts and shocks (more $ but a better chance of finding the right damping setting if that matters to you) That'll narrow down the spring/strut/shock choices a bit. Roadworthy probably involves newer design fine thread strut to knuckle fasteners that take a slightly higher installation torque. Important if you drive hard, really important if you compete at autocross or take the car open-tracking.

Up to spec = ?
I'm only guessing, but if you get into the hard cornering part of the automotive hobby much, the preferred OE settings may not be appropriate any longer.


Norm

My previous car that I had "tuned" I would do occational auto-x events along with a lot of spirited North NJ mountain runs. I dont intend on pushing the Mustang that hard but the intention would be something that handles well on the occational run through the twisties. A simple springs/struts combo I think would do it. The sway bars can be added later.

I was looking at camber wear in terms of getting more even tire wear. My previous car had negative camber in the front but my tires never lasted more than 20k miles for me to bother with worrying about camber too much.

I plan to lower between 1" to 1.5" depending on what springs I'm going to get.

Originally Posted by jayel579

I think the one problem with your question is you never stated what your intentions for the car are? Autocross, Track events. Drag Racing, DD etc.. What does the car do that you do not like then you may get a more clear response.

I want something thats good for DD but can handle the occational twisties. I dont want something as purpose built as my old car was. It had so much suspension work done to it that it was a PITA for street driving. My main aim is to eliminate wheel gap while also stiffening up the car a little.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I will research things a bit more to come up with a more concrete parts list.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by NDN GQ

I was looking at camber wear in terms of getting more even tire wear. My previous car had negative camber in the front but my tires never lasted more than 20k miles for me to bother with worrying about camber too much.

Factory camber spec for the S197 is -0.75° ±0.5°, so it should be slightly negative even before you do anything at all to it.

The street camber setting that's best for you depends on things like how hard your typical cornering is, perhaps vs how hard your average braking is. Lots of hard cornering suggests a more negative camber setting, lots of hard braking wants it less negative, so you get to choose/trade one off against the other.

Front spring stiffness could figure in as well, since that affects how much cornering roll and nose dive during braking occur, which in turn cause camber changes. Stiffer springs suggest that slightly less negative camber could be either desirable or possibly even necessary. But don't go buying the stiffest springs you can find just so you can set some ideal static camber a small fraction of a degree less negative.


FWIW, my '08 GT cambers measure about -1.2° with the OE springs. I've got about 13,000 miles on the car and offhand, I would guess I've about halfway used up the OE 235/50-18 tires (they being subjected to "spirited" cornering whenever the opportunity presents itself). Something that I should do sometime this week anyway but need to work up enough ambition for first is a tire rotation (18" tires/wheels are HEAVY, so it's really easy to get a little lazy about this). If I then think to, I'll measure for tire wear to estimate how much tread life I've got left and just how close to even (or not) the tire wear has been.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

I got ambitious. Tires are worn only about 0.05" from 9/32" claimed (0.281"). I'm only about 25% worn using 2/32" as the minimum, with 13500 miles on them. BFG KDWS are 400 treadwear. I may get over 40,000 miles out of them, which is a huge amount for me.

Incidentally, treadwear is within about ±0.01" across the treads, with me typically running about 34 psi front and 30 psi rear but rarely carrying anything more than one passenger.

I don't think it'd be a good idea to tell my wife that I need to corner a little harder a little more often so I could even out the tire wear, though.


On edit - I knew those damn things were heavy. About 54 lbs apiece (and one was about a pound heavier than the other three - ???).


Norm