Brake pads for road course
#11
HPS and HP+ are not track pads. They are high end street pads that can survive some light track duty - at least HP+ can. DTC60, 70, HT-10 and a few others are Hawk's track pads. This is a 3600 lbs car capable of hitting roughly 130 on most tracks with a decent straight - that is a whole lot of vehicle to slow down. IMO HP+ is the minimum and I'd only recommend them for a newer HPDE driver on street tires.
#12
Argonaut, you're right, DT60 is Hawk's track pad. My bad.
What does "minimum" mean to you? Do you think the stock pads will fade to the point of failure? A 14" disc and brembo caliper have a lot of heat capacity, and dot 4 fluid boils at a very high temp. With fresh fluid and proper bleeding I think the GT brembo setup is a good start for most track day guys. But you need to be sensitive, if you feel the brake pedal soften you have to have the sense to back off.
I'm an old fart, well past my prime, and I don't go 10/10ths any more. I still end up quicker than 90% of the people at the track, in an unmodified car. And it doesn't matter. If the slowest guy out there has more fun than me, he wins.
What does "minimum" mean to you? Do you think the stock pads will fade to the point of failure? A 14" disc and brembo caliper have a lot of heat capacity, and dot 4 fluid boils at a very high temp. With fresh fluid and proper bleeding I think the GT brembo setup is a good start for most track day guys. But you need to be sensitive, if you feel the brake pedal soften you have to have the sense to back off.
I'm an old fart, well past my prime, and I don't go 10/10ths any more. I still end up quicker than 90% of the people at the track, in an unmodified car. And it doesn't matter. If the slowest guy out there has more fun than me, he wins.
#13
Argonaut, you're right, DT60 is Hawk's track pad. My bad.
What does "minimum" mean to you? Do you think the stock pads will fade to the point of failure? A 14" disc and brembo caliper have a lot of heat capacity, and dot 4 fluid boils at a very high temp. With fresh fluid and proper bleeding I think the GT brembo setup is a good start for most track day guys. But you need to be sensitive, if you feel the brake pedal soften you have to have the sense to back off.
I'm an old fart, well past my prime, and I don't go 10/10ths any more. I still end up quicker than 90% of the people at the track, in an unmodified car. And it doesn't matter. If the slowest guy out there has more fun than me, he wins.
What does "minimum" mean to you? Do you think the stock pads will fade to the point of failure? A 14" disc and brembo caliper have a lot of heat capacity, and dot 4 fluid boils at a very high temp. With fresh fluid and proper bleeding I think the GT brembo setup is a good start for most track day guys. But you need to be sensitive, if you feel the brake pedal soften you have to have the sense to back off.
I'm an old fart, well past my prime, and I don't go 10/10ths any more. I still end up quicker than 90% of the people at the track, in an unmodified car. And it doesn't matter. If the slowest guy out there has more fun than me, he wins.
Cheers.
#14
HPS and HP+ are not track pads. They are high end street pads that can survive some light track duty - at least HP+ can. DTC60, 70, HT-10 and a few others are Hawk's track pads. This is a 3600 lbs car capable of hitting roughly 130 on most tracks with a decent straight - that is a whole lot of vehicle to slow down. IMO HP+ is the minimum and I'd only recommend them for a newer HPDE driver on street tires.
Never forget about transfer material when switching pads. Transfer occurs when hot pads "transfer" pad material to the disc. A well functioning brake system uses this transfer layer to develop a high coefficient of friction. Good transfer not only helps braking, it will help your discs last longer. Google "brake pad transfer" for loads more about this. Stop tech has a great explanation here: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
Dedicated metallic track pads are so abrasive when cold (i.e., on the street) that they clean off any previous transfer material. If you run track pads for long on the street, they will eat through the disc and quickly destroy it.
I learned this the hard way when I switched my BMW M from stock pads to cool carbons for track use. The cool carbon transfer to the stock disc was uneven and the resulting vibration made the car un-driveable on the track. I ended up buying new Performance Friction discs and pads at a cost of $2k. I was not happy. I probably should have bought something like the Hawk HPS plus to clean them off, and then used them for track days. But I was too stupid.
A smart man learns from his mistakes. A really smart man learns from the mistakes of others. Here's your chance to learn from my mistake.
Dedicated metallic track pads are so abrasive when cold (i.e., on the street) that they clean off any previous transfer material. If you run track pads for long on the street, they will eat through the disc and quickly destroy it.
I learned this the hard way when I switched my BMW M from stock pads to cool carbons for track use. The cool carbon transfer to the stock disc was uneven and the resulting vibration made the car un-driveable on the track. I ended up buying new Performance Friction discs and pads at a cost of $2k. I was not happy. I probably should have bought something like the Hawk HPS plus to clean them off, and then used them for track days. But I was too stupid.
A smart man learns from his mistakes. A really smart man learns from the mistakes of others. Here's your chance to learn from my mistake.
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge with a track noob
#15
Thank you both for your insight and guidance. I heard that the track pads can really mess up your rotors and it is a good idea to have dedicated track rotors and pads. Thats why I went with the high end street/track (as Hawk classifies it) HPS instead of the HP +. What are your thoughts? I have a week before my HPDE 1 event.
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge with a track noob
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge with a track noob
Assuming you don't have time to buy a set, sounds like you will going to a DE with the HPS. So be it. They will work and you may not fade them at all - it really depends on you. I know a guy who drives a C6 Vette and is pretty quick. One day at Summit Point he completely used up his track pads - so he swapped in his street pads and went out for the afternoon sessions. He said it wasn't good but the car still stopped and he was still fast, he just took it down a couple notches.
What about your brake fluid? You need DOT 4 fluid for track work. Stock fluid is DOT 3, it has a lower boiling point. You need DOT 4 fluid to survive the high temps seen on the track. Here again you may or may not have problems depending on how fast you are going and how hard you need to brake for turn-in. If you start feeling a mushy pedal its probably your brake fluid boiling.
Last edited by Argonaut; 02-06-2011 at 04:24 PM.
#16
Porterfield R4's?
I was curious if anyone had run the Porterfield R4's. I run these on my previous track car, a gutted and modded 1993 SHO (250hp, 3000lbs, on RA1s). I would drive them to and from the track as well (Usually Gingerman). They squeal when cold, but I love the performance when it's hot. With a 13" front rotor and dual piston calipers up front I could late brake everyone.
I got an 07 GT last fall and plan to do some HPDE events with it and have been contemplating pads. I know HP10's are generally the standard I see discussed, but I've been very pleased with my R4's to date. I've not had the new car to the track... yet.
I got an 07 GT last fall and plan to do some HPDE events with it and have been contemplating pads. I know HP10's are generally the standard I see discussed, but I've been very pleased with my R4's to date. I've not had the new car to the track... yet.
#18
OP has been MIA for a couple of months. Try sending him a PM.
What I can tell you is that his timed laps out on the big track were consistent at about mid-pack (which may or may not have been enough to work the brakes hard with the weather being relatively cool), and that he put down some very impressive runs on the autocross course (which wasn't at all hard on the brakes except for getting slowed down after crossing the finish). RTTS Results
Norm
What I can tell you is that his timed laps out on the big track were consistent at about mid-pack (which may or may not have been enough to work the brakes hard with the weather being relatively cool), and that he put down some very impressive runs on the autocross course (which wasn't at all hard on the brakes except for getting slowed down after crossing the finish). RTTS Results
Norm
#19
Here are a couple of pics:
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