Go Back   MustangForums.com > Ford Mustang Tech > 2005 - 2014 Mustangs > S197 Handling Section
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

Welcome to Mustang Forums!
Welcome to Mustang Forums.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Understeer question

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-02-2011, 04:45 PM   #1
MustangFirstCar
5th Gear Member
 
MustangFirstCar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Vehicle: 2006 White Mustang
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,229
Default Understeer question

I have a 2006 V6 with the pony package. Generally, I don't drive too hard, but occasionally I like to take some very hard corners. I have found that my car is pretty capable, but once or twice I have almost gotten into a little trouble with understeer. I would like to try to eliminate any understeer so I don't have to worry about it. I don't have alot of money, and I am not working right now because I hurt my knee, so the less expensive, the better. I tried the search function but not a whole lot came up. So, do you guys have any suggestions for getting rid of understeer?

Thanks!
This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Mustang Forums!
__________________

2006 Mustang V6 PP | C&L CAI | Bama 93 race tune | 14" Shorty Antenna | Eagle GTs | 18" stripe
GT/CS Front Bumper | Bullit Grille | Hawk HPS pads| Slotted and Drilled Rotors | Strano Swaybars
Prothane Motor Mounts | MMD Hood Struts | 55w 5000K HIDs | Poly Bushings


There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
MustangFirstCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 04:58 PM   #2
parchisi
3rd Gear Member
 
parchisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Vehicle: 2011 Mustang GT
Location: New Mexico...FML
Posts: 599
I993 SVT COBRA parchisi
Default

There's a lot of ways. Two ways that I can think of right off hand is to increase camber and get adjustable swaybars (stiffen the rear and/or soften the front). Springs and dampers will improve handling overall. Not sure how expensive is too expensive for you, but there's my advice.
__________________

2011 Mustang GT
Premium, Race Red, GT/CS Splitter and Spoiler, 3.73 Gears, Strut Tower Brace, Steeda Comp Springs, Tokico D-Specs, MM C/C Plates, UMI Dbl. Adjustable PHB, Barton Shifter, American Thunder Axleback, SVE 19x9.5 Drift Wheels, Hankook R-S3 275/35ZR19 tires all around.
parchisi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 05:02 PM   #3
BlackBetty
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 454
Default

"A" way to lessen understeer (not saying it's the best or only) is to increase the stiffness of the rear anti-roll bar or reduce the stiffness of the front bar. You could probably just go with a new rear bar. Sam Strano makes a nice adjustable bar so you could dial in the balance a bit without breaking the bank.

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=80&ModelID=5
__________________


Black 2006 GT manual, red interior
SCCA Solo E Street Prepared
BlackBetty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #4
MustangFirstCar
5th Gear Member
 
MustangFirstCar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Vehicle: 2006 White Mustang
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,229
Default

Well I don't know about the adjustable things. I don't know much about tuning or handling characteristics and would honestly prefer something I could slap on my car and not have to think about it again.
__________________

2006 Mustang V6 PP | C&L CAI | Bama 93 race tune | 14" Shorty Antenna | Eagle GTs | 18" stripe
GT/CS Front Bumper | Bullit Grille | Hawk HPS pads| Slotted and Drilled Rotors | Strano Swaybars
Prothane Motor Mounts | MMD Hood Struts | 55w 5000K HIDs | Poly Bushings


There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
MustangFirstCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 07:54 PM   #5
nemosgt
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Vehicle: 2011 Mustang GT
Location: Ontario
Posts: 238
Default

How about taking the corner a little slower? Even with the mods offered, the Mustang will most likely understeer eventually at the limit in any case. Far better than modding the car with too much oversteer for the street. Especially if you are limited in experience.

Cheers.
nemosgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 08:42 PM   #6
Argonaut
4th Gear Member
 
Argonaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Vehicle: 2007 GT
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
Default

I seem to remember that the V6s back then (06) didn't have a rear sway...true? I bet its an understeering pig. You can get the OEM rear sway off a GT for pennies...there are enough guys around here who have replaced them and would be more than happy to get the old one out of their garage for a few bucks. Post a WTB ad in the classified section of this site.
__________________
07 GT 5spd: stock
99 C5 FRC: track toy
Argonaut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 08:53 PM   #7
MustangFirstCar
5th Gear Member
 
MustangFirstCar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Vehicle: 2006 White Mustang
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,229
Default

@nemo
I like to take corners hard. It is fun for me. I enjoy it. That is why I have a Mustang. Because I enjoy driving, lol. If I didn't want to push my car to the limit (and past, in this case), I would buy a Toyota.

@Argo
Actually because I have the pony package I have the GT sway and some other GT suspension part I cannot recall right now. Thanks anyways though.
__________________

2006 Mustang V6 PP | C&L CAI | Bama 93 race tune | 14" Shorty Antenna | Eagle GTs | 18" stripe
GT/CS Front Bumper | Bullit Grille | Hawk HPS pads| Slotted and Drilled Rotors | Strano Swaybars
Prothane Motor Mounts | MMD Hood Struts | 55w 5000K HIDs | Poly Bushings


There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
MustangFirstCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 09:35 PM   #8
azrampage
1st Gear Member
 
azrampage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Vehicle: 2007 Mustang Pony Pkg
Location: Arizona
Posts: 60
Default

Yes, you have most of the GT suspension. Same front sway bar (34mm), very similar springs, and a slightly smaller rear sway bar.

If you want less understeer without spending any money, first be sure your tires are up to recommended pressure, then add about 5# more for the rear. This will help balance the handling to a little more neutral.

If you care about SCCA Classing (G Stock), buy adjustable Koni Sport shocks and adjust the rears stiffer than the fronts. Adjust tire pressure next to suite your driving style.

If you don't care about SCCA classing, add Sam's rear adjustable sway bar, and then tire pressure to match.

Make sense?
__________________
Scott
2007 Mustang Pony Pkg.
Glendale, AZ
azrampage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 07:40 AM   #9
Norm Peterson
6th Gear Member
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle: 2008 GT Premium
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 6,931
Default

From where you're at now for cheap - tire pressures and cornering technique (and not necessarily in that order).

Coming into a corner too hot will make you think the car is an agricultural vehicle, because you'll be asking way too much way too quickly from the outside front tire than it can possibly deliver. Slow in, fast out. The fact that you indicate heavy understeer as happening only once or twice rather than as being the normal condition raises this item to the top spot of things to fix. Best news is that the parts cost for this = $0, and it's transferrable to most anything else you'll likely ever drive.


On tire pressures, I'm going to take the other approach and suggest a slightly higher front pressure than sticker and a slightly lower rear pressure than sticker. The intent is to help the front get the car to turn in, and to let the rear run at a slightly higher slip angle without compromising mechanical grip (which you generally want available on corner exit with RWD). I normally run about 4-5 psi higher in the front than in the rear even in normal street driving, ranging maybe from 34f/29r to 35f/31r. The only caveat with lower than sticker rear pressure is that it probably isn't an appropriate setting for more than just short distances when you're carrying heavy rear seat or trunk loads.


I'd also suggest running the front camber a little more negative, assuming that it's somewhere near the OE preferred setting of -0.75° the way it sits. Camber plates or camber-adjustable upper strut mounts, please, and for the way you claim to drive don't even think about any other method.


Norm
__________________
'08 GT coupe, 5M, suspension unstockish (mine)
'10 Legacy 2.5GT, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)

Gone but not forgotten dep't: '95 Mazda 626, V6/5M; '79 Chevy Malibu, 4M/5M; '87 Maxima, 5M; '72 Ford Pinto, 4M; '64 Dodge V8/3A . . .


Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-03-2011 at 07:48 AM.
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 07:49 PM   #10
MustangFirstCar
5th Gear Member
 
MustangFirstCar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Vehicle: 2006 White Mustang
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,229
Default

Well, as far as changing the way I take turns, I understand what you guys are saying. I have read in other places that "Slow in, fast out" is the way to go.

From what you guys are saying maybe I should just get a thicker adjustable rear swaybar and play with tire pressure, along with tweaking how I enter the turn. Is that about right?

Also, I had my eyes on the STR.Ts. Anyone know if they (or how they) will affect cornering?
__________________

2006 Mustang V6 PP | C&L CAI | Bama 93 race tune | 14" Shorty Antenna | Eagle GTs | 18" stripe
GT/CS Front Bumper | Bullit Grille | Hawk HPS pads| Slotted and Drilled Rotors | Strano Swaybars
Prothane Motor Mounts | MMD Hood Struts | 55w 5000K HIDs | Poly Bushings


There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
MustangFirstCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 06:42 AM   #11
Norm Peterson
6th Gear Member
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle: 2008 GT Premium
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 6,931
Default

Cornering technique should come first, as that will affect what parts or tuning that you follow up with. Or maybe whether you even need to do anything at all. If you've ever played ball (or golf, for that matter), trying too hard to hit the long ball is lots more likely to end up with poor results than when you take just a little off of it and let the timing of your swing do the work. Maybe think of "overdriving" as being the motorsports equivalent of "overswinging".

Then play with the tire pressures a little.

A stiffer rear bar will reduce mid-corner understeer, and a sixxer will generally be a little more tolerant of too much rear bar than a GT would be. But it still won't be a lot of help if you've overdriven the fronts all the way into heavy/plowing/sliding understeer. Flip side is that it can make it a little harder to add throttle on corner exit - you won't be able to put quite as much power down until you're going straighter. If you're already on occasion getting the rear end loose with the throttle coming off the corners or getting RR wheelspin coming out of righthanders, a stiffer rear bar is going to be kind of a "be careful what you ask for" mod.


Norm
__________________
'08 GT coupe, 5M, suspension unstockish (mine)
'10 Legacy 2.5GT, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)

Gone but not forgotten dep't: '95 Mazda 626, V6/5M; '79 Chevy Malibu, 4M/5M; '87 Maxima, 5M; '72 Ford Pinto, 4M; '64 Dodge V8/3A . . .

Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 07:52 AM   #12
Sleeper_08
4th Gear Member
 
Sleeper_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Vehicle: 08 Mustang GT
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
Default

Norm

My track setup is per my sig and last season i was running 39 pounds front and rear in the NT01s.

The car feels pretty good to my somewhat less than sensitive posterior and generally I am happy with the handling. The one noticeable problem I have is a very slow speed right hander where the slow in out fast technique has helped reduce the oversteer and excessive wear on the left front.

The corner starts at about 1:00 in this video;

http://mustangforums.com/forum/s197-...ml#post7532574

What would you suggest I try with the hot tire pressures allowing for the extra weight on the front of my SC.
__________________
White 08 GT Roush S/C 445 HP/Michelin Pilot Super Sports 285/35/18 tires/18 x 9.5 Enkei PF01 wheels/Steeda Comp springs/Koni Yellows/FAYS2 Watt's Link/LCA/Adj UCA & Mnt/Upper strut mnts/GT500 Brembo Brake Kit/GT500 Front LCA/X5 Ball Jnt/Bmp Str + more
Sleeper_08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 08:04 PM   #13
MustangFirstCar
5th Gear Member
 
MustangFirstCar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Vehicle: 2006 White Mustang
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Cornering technique should come first, as that will affect what parts or tuning that you follow up with. Or maybe whether you even need to do anything at all. If you've ever played ball (or golf, for that matter), trying too hard to hit the long ball is lots more likely to end up with poor results than when you take just a little off of it and let the timing of your swing do the work. Maybe think of "overdriving" as being the motorsports equivalent of "overswinging".

Then play with the tire pressures a little.

A stiffer rear bar will reduce mid-corner understeer, and a sixxer will generally be a little more tolerant of too much rear bar than a GT would be. But it still won't be a lot of help if you've overdriven the fronts all the way into heavy/plowing/sliding understeer. Flip side is that it can make it a little harder to add throttle on corner exit - you won't be able to put quite as much power down until you're going straighter. If you're already on occasion getting the rear end loose with the throttle coming off the corners or getting RR wheelspin coming out of righthanders, a stiffer rear bar is going to be kind of a "be careful what you ask for" mod.


Norm
The only time I get wheelspin when turning is when I peel out and fishtail from a stop sign, lol. My car is not nearly powerful enough to do that kind of stuff.

It seems obvious to me that I should just go out an work on technique. That is all just fine I guess, because I would rather save my money for now.

So does anybody know how STR.Ts might affect cornering?
__________________

2006 Mustang V6 PP | C&L CAI | Bama 93 race tune | 14" Shorty Antenna | Eagle GTs | 18" stripe
GT/CS Front Bumper | Bullit Grille | Hawk HPS pads| Slotted and Drilled Rotors | Strano Swaybars
Prothane Motor Mounts | MMD Hood Struts | 55w 5000K HIDs | Poly Bushings


There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
MustangFirstCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2011, 10:10 PM   #14
SlideWRX
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrampage View Post
Yes, you have most of the GT suspension. Same front sway bar (34mm), very similar springs, and a slightly smaller rear sway bar.
On the cheap:
If the rear is slightly smaller, I'd definitely go for the GT bar. look for someone who is getting rid of the stock hardware after upgrading. Get stiffer bushings for the rear bar as well.

do your own alignment to make sure you are close to zero toe in the front. If you have no idea, go find some local auto-x guys. You can get a pretty darn accurate toe alignment by yourself. If you play with the camber, do that first.

Definitely play with tire pressures. If you are running normal tire pressures, increase the front in 2 psi steps. I'll bet 36ish would be great for grip.
__________________
DD - '07 Mustang GT White
SlideWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 03:51 PM   #15
azrampage
1st Gear Member
 
azrampage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Vehicle: 2007 Mustang Pony Pkg
Location: Arizona
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlideWRX View Post
On the cheap:
If the rear is slightly smaller, I'd definitely go for the GT bar.

do your own alignment to make sure you are close to zero toe in the front. If you have no idea, go find some local auto-x guys. You can get a pretty darn accurate toe alignment by yourself. If you play with the camber, do that first.

Definitely play with tire pressures. If you are running normal tire pressures, increase the front in 2 psi steps. I'll bet 36ish would be great for grip.
V-6 rear sway bar = 18mm; V-8 = 20mm. Agree, get the GT rear.

Zero front toe = good. Make toe plates to set easily.

Tire pressures on stock Pirellis: I autocrossed on 42# front and rear; maybe not good for daily driving.
__________________
Scott
2007 Mustang Pony Pkg.
Glendale, AZ
azrampage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2011, 06:25 PM   #16
MustangFirstCar
5th Gear Member
 
MustangFirstCar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Vehicle: 2006 White Mustang
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrampage View Post
V-6 rear sway bar = 18mm; V-8 = 20mm. Agree, get the GT rear.

Zero front toe = good. Make toe plates to set easily.

Tire pressures on stock Pirellis: I autocrossed on 42# front and rear; maybe not good for daily driving.
Would there be a benefit in going with a thicker rear sway then 20mm? If so, about how thick would a sway bar have to be before it started hurting performance?
__________________

2006 Mustang V6 PP | C&L CAI | Bama 93 race tune | 14" Shorty Antenna | Eagle GTs | 18" stripe
GT/CS Front Bumper | Bullit Grille | Hawk HPS pads| Slotted and Drilled Rotors | Strano Swaybars
Prothane Motor Mounts | MMD Hood Struts | 55w 5000K HIDs | Poly Bushings


There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact, it's all dark.
MustangFirstCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 12:36 PM   #17
Norm Peterson
6th Gear Member
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle: 2008 GT Premium
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 6,931
Default

I'd get a 20mm GT take-off and drive around with it for a while - it's probably stiffer than you're thinking (it's about 50% stiffer than your 18mm Pony bar, not just the 10% or so that the diameter numbers might be suggesting to you).

Keep in mind that a neutral-ish setup that drives just fine on warm, dry roads can easily become "loose" when it's wet, cold, or worse. Since you mentioned not wanting to be twiddling with adjustments, you'll still want to retain some understeer for those conditions. Understeer has nothing on oversteer when it comes to suddenly getting your attention with visions of curbs, trees, utility poles, ditches, the end of the car that isn't connected to the steering wheel, hell, and handbaskets.

I would not expect the STRt's to shift the car's understeer/oversteer balance much (for that you'd look into staggered settings on the yellows). More like better composed and not quite as harsh especially in the rear. Get Sam Strano's thoughts.


Just happened to see something in the current issue of the SCCA's monthly magazine, written by the chief instructor for Bob Bondurant (and who has 27 years instructing experience at this point). "Easy in, fast out", with the thought that you ought to be able to start adding a tiny bit of throttle even before you get to the apex. A reasonable interpretation probably runs something like "If you can't do that every time on the street, you're doing something wrong".


Norm
__________________
'08 GT coupe, 5M, suspension unstockish (mine)
'10 Legacy 2.5GT, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)

Gone but not forgotten dep't: '95 Mazda 626, V6/5M; '79 Chevy Malibu, 4M/5M; '87 Maxima, 5M; '72 Ford Pinto, 4M; '64 Dodge V8/3A . . .


Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-13-2011 at 12:43 PM.
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 09:39 PM   #18
azrampage
1st Gear Member
 
azrampage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Vehicle: 2007 Mustang Pony Pkg
Location: Arizona
Posts: 60
Default Good Advice

Norm gives very good advice. You can take it to the bank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I'd get a 20mm GT take-off and drive around with it for a while - it's probably stiffer than you're thinking (it's about 50% stiffer than your 18mm Pony bar, not just the 10% or so that the diameter numbers might be suggesting to you).

Keep in mind that a neutral-ish setup that drives just fine on warm, dry roads can easily become "loose" when it's wet, cold, or worse. Since you mentioned not wanting to be twiddling with adjustments, you'll still want to retain some understeer for those conditions. Understeer has nothing on oversteer when it comes to suddenly getting your attention with visions of curbs, trees, utility poles, ditches, the end of the car that isn't connected to the steering wheel, hell, and handbaskets.

I would not expect the STRt's to shift the car's understeer/oversteer balance much (for that you'd look into staggered settings on the yellows). More like better composed and not quite as harsh especially in the rear. Get Sam Strano's thoughts.

Just happened to see something in the current issue of the SCCA's monthly magazine, written by the chief instructor for Bob Bondurant (and who has 27 years instructing experience at this point). "Easy in, fast out", with the thought that you ought to be able to start adding a tiny bit of throttle even before you get to the apex. A reasonable interpretation probably runs something like "If you can't do that every time on the street, you're doing something wrong".

Norm
__________________
Scott
2007 Mustang Pony Pkg.
Glendale, AZ
azrampage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #19
M3hunter
2nd Gear Member
 
M3hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Vehicle: '11 Mustang GT Brembo
Location: TX
Posts: 215
Question

Sorry if I steep in.
I was reading this post, and I really see great knowledge about handling improvements. I have a future simillar issue. I have a GT Brembo with the Steeda Sport Springs and KONI STRT. My rear tires are almost wasted, and I was thinking if I could replace them with 275/35R19 or 275/40R19 on the stock brembo wheels. I think that this setup might bring understeer to my car, do you think that with a wider rear sway bar, this will bring back my car to a more neutral handling. I will like to improve the looks but without affecting the present handling, if posible it will be great to improve it.

Another doubt, is that, if you think that the car with the 3.73 gears (standard transmission) will behave strange with the 275/35R19 or 275/40R19, compared to the stock setup?
__________________
2011 GT Premium, Brembo, 3.73. KONI STRT & STEEDA SPORT. Rear CS Pedestal Spoiler, GT500 strut mounts, Eleanor side scoops, "C" style decals, Black pony.
M3hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #20
snicksnipa
1st Gear Member
 
snicksnipa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Vehicle: 2009 Mustang V6
Location: Nevada
Posts: 73
Default

+1 to adjustable sway bars, they can give you the perfect amount of oversteer at ease.
__________________
2009 Mustang Torch Red Manual - JLT NextGen CAI + BAMA 91 Race Tune ll 19" Staggered Machined Flat Black AMR Wheels with Sumitomo HTRZIII ll Full Eibach Sport Suspension System (Sportline Springs, Shocks/Dampers) ll Shelby Terlingua Front and Rear Sway Bars ll J&M Panhard & Extreme LCA's ll True Duals to Ford Racing FR500S Mufflers ll CDC Chin Spoiler ll GT500 Spoiler ll 8000K HIDS ll Blackout Panel ll CDC Grille
snicksnipa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:49 PM
MustangForums
Ford Mustang




Paid Advertisement

 
 
 
Reply

Tags
01, 1995, 2007, 2011, cornering, fine, ii, mustang, norm, package, peterson, pony, tuning, understear, understeer, v6

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
New Sponsors
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:38 PM.

© Internet Brands, Inc.


This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company
Emails Backup