Shawn Sexton

Sorry for the large size picture hope this one works better

Argonaut

Hmmm....thats interesting. Could it be that you are gaining experience and hitting higher speeds and using more brake? Or perhaps with the ducts installed the pads aren't getting up to proper temps and they are wearing prematurely. Keep watching that. Start taking thickness measurements if you can.

Argonaut

I think you mean heel-toe downshift.

Thats a serious pedal extension. The normal way to do this is to make the brake pedal wider, not the gas pedal. But...having said that, I also have an extended width gas pedal, just not that wide, LOL.

Shawn Sexton

I made the extension a little big, will try it out and trim if necessary.
I just went with the wider gas pedal after seeing whats available on line.

I didn't see wider brake pedals, but didn't look for them. Will have to google it.

thanks for the comment though, will give it some thought.

ShaneM

are you getting any brake fade? if you runt eh same track, and drive consistently each time (as in not getting faster each time out) just watch your brake fade for signs of what you need to upgrade. Brake fade with a pedal that comes back to normal after they cool is the pads overheating. brake fade with a pedal that remains spongy after the brakes cool is over heated fluid. if you run into the first instance cooling ducts may help, but you need better pads for sure. i run them all the time on my boss and the only downside is that the pads squeal a bit on the street since they stay cooler.

if you plan on road racing a lot, use the cheapest rotors you can get, those dimpled and slotted jobs aren't necessarily any better and drilled rotors and have been known to crack. also i don't think bedding is going to make anything better if you have been around a track on your current pads. you have all the transfer you will get and have scraped anything left over from manufacturing off the pads. the main thing with bedding (so says the carbotech guy, i'm parapharasing here) is to heat the pads up enough to get good transfer onto the rotors.

Shawn Sexton

Logged another track day. getting the line pretty good by now. My instructor graded me rather low on sequencing on turn approach.
I can forget about practicing heel toe for now until I get the downshifting timing down. Had lots of brake jutter too, that was a distraction to say the least, but I eventually relaxed into it. By the end of the day, I had worn out the stock tires (One almost into the cords. Brakes are better than half worn out).

So I went to the bay and found some Roush NTO's from 2011 GT

13.2 rotors - $50 each, and calipers w/brackets, $75 each. (All new)

So my brake upgrade is on it's way.

I had my buddy give me some R6's which I replaced the stock tires (I have a new street tire set, (courtesy Ebay NTO's)
thing is the R6's are 225/40/18 's about 2" shorter.

Anybody have an idea what to expect besides speedo being off?

Will I have any issues w/ABS?

thanks for all the input/encouragement!

Argonaut

If you were still using the stock pads thats probably what was causing your judder issues, also possibly the rotors have warped a bit. Hopefully the new Rousch system will fix that but make sure you get some real track pads.

How old are the R6s...how used? I'm assuming they aren't new else nobody would be giving them away. They degrade pretty quickly - awesome when new but mediocre by about 6 track days (20-25 heat cycles). If new they will blow your mind compared to the stock tires. But there in lies the problem - typically R-comps are not a good choice for newer drivers because they are so sticky they cover up rookie mistakes and make an inexperienced driver feel like superman. Street tires allow you to find the limit of traction at a relatively low speed and they give you tons of audio feedback. You can also feel the car slipping and drifting. These are all necessary inputs when learning to drive precise, consistent laps. R-comps on the other hand require far higher corner speeds to slip them (the fastest way around a corner involves a few degrees of slip angle) and give you virtually no audio feedback. And if you push them too hard or get on the gas to soon...wham they let go in an instant with little warning.

But, since you got them...enjoy them. Everyone has different abilities and learn at different rates. Super aggressive, quick learning and inately talented drivers pick up R-comps right away (seen it happen a couple times) where mere mortals like me not so much...I need a little lower speeds and more feedback to feel comfortable with 5-6 degrees of slip.

Shawn Sexton

Thanks - I'm planning on a set of track pads but would like for the street too (My DD) HAWK HPS sound good?

[/QUOTE]How old are the R6s...how used?.[/QUOTE] 2 track days on them.

[/QUOTE]I'm assuming they aren't new else nobody would be giving them away. They degrade pretty quickly - awesome when new but mediocre by about 6 track days (20-25 heat cycles). If new they will blow your mind compared to the stock tires. But there in lies the problem - typically R-comps are not a good choice for newer drivers because they are so sticky they cover up rookie mistakes and make an inexperienced driver feel like superman. Street tires allow you to find the limit of traction at a relatively low speed and they give you tons of audio feedback. You can also feel the car slipping and drifting. These are all necessary inputs when learning to drive precise, consistent laps. R-comps on the other hand require far higher corner speeds to slip them (the fastest way around a corner involves a few degrees of slip angle) and give you virtually no audio feedback. And if you push them too hard or get on the gas to soon...wham they let go in an instant with little warning.

But, since you got them...enjoy them. Everyone has different abilities and learn at different rates. Super aggressive, quick learning and inately talented drivers pick up R-comps right away (seen it happen a couple times) where mere mortals like me not so much...I need a little lower speeds and more feedback to feel comfortable with 5-6 degrees of slip.[/QUOTE]
You've got a lot of good information here, sounds to me like you are an accomplished driver in your own right. I have heard what you are saying about the advantages of learning with street tires, I just came into this opportunity and went with it. I'll have to keep aware of what you are saying about no warning!

Argonaut

Personally I think HPS are not up to track use for a +3K lb car. But some folks have used them with success. Really depends on many factors: driver, track, weather, car and of course the tires. R6s are more grippy, they will certainly tax the pads. I would go with two sets of pads - one for the street the other for the track. For example - Carbotech Bobcat on the street and Carbotech XP8 on the track. Compatible compounds so no need to bed them in when changing from one to the other.

Regarding the whole slip angle thing and driver skill: last summer at the Thunderbolt track in New Jersey I had Mike Skeen drive my car for a session with me riding shotgun. Mike is a professional driver and damn good one having won many national and even international races. The most apparent difference between him and me? The amount of Slip Angle.

I'm very typical of an advanced HPDE driver - I set up for a late apex, turn in, usually with a little trail braking, maintain until the apex and then feed in throttle right to the edge of traction (I can feel the tires slipping). In other words I have little or no tire slip until after the apex (unless I screw up of course and cause understeer or worse spin it).

Mike on the other hand is entirely different. At first I thought he was turning in way to early (and way to fast). But what I came to understand is he slips the car (the whole car does a beautifully balanced drift to the outside) on corner entry. So what seems like an early entry and thus an early apex winds up being perfect. He has the car partially rotated way earlier than I do and thus can get on the gas a few moments earlier. It was a beautiful thing to experience. Thats really the point I came to understand that R-comps aren't helping me continue to learn. Sure...they give me lower lap times than lesser tires but I'm pretty much flatlined in my learning (i.e. I'm not increasing in skill) and I believe one of the reasons is because I've been using R-comps so much. So I did spend a couple days on street tires last summer to recall back what its like. The limits are so much lower (lower speed) and the feedback more apparent that I feel much more confident trying to mimic Mike's driving style without fear of balling the car up. I think I will continue to swap back and forth - the R-comps are way fun but the street tires are really better for improving your skills.

Brad

donutsdemise

^ Where is the 'like' button?

I wonder how early apexing will work in autocross. I'm going to be doing my first season on the stock Pirelli's.