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S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

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Old 04-15-2012, 03:51 PM   #1
ron_v
 
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Default suspension upgrade - newb

So I've had my 2010 GT (track pack) for a little over a year now. I've done several track days (Thunderhill and Laguna Seca).
Although the suspension is better than I thought it would be for this car, it's clearly time for an upgrade.
I don't know squat about suspensions (other than the basic components involved).... and I've been shopping around, trying to get a feel for what I should do (including reading forum posts).
So far, I've got two items in my cart.... a handling pack... and a coil over kit.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-h...ck-0512gt.html
http://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach...-0510gtv6.html

I have no idea what the differences are (other than the contents of each kit)... and which is more likely to meet my needs... which are:

- Obviously, better handling... tighter feel... less roll.
- "Easily" adjustable (would like a softer ride for daily drives).

Any advice... from experts... or someone with experience with suspension upgrades... would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:03 PM   #2
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I've been tracking my car (Roush 427R) at Thunderhill, Infineon & Laguna-Seca for the last couple years with the Roush Trak Pak coil over kit, LCAs and Fays 2 Watts link.
Is your (track Pack) adjustable?
How many times have you been to these tracks?
What Group are you driving in?
Sam Strano is a great source and a participant on this site with expert advise, so check out his site.
Other suggestions would be AST 4100s and look at the Pedders suspension kits too.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:44 PM   #3
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Thanks Campo, for the info.
I'll try and contact Sam.

I've been going to Thunderhill for a couple years (drove my brothers Cayman before I got the Mustang).
Mostly with HOD (C group), or T.E.A.M (A group).
I just drove Laguna this last weekend with HOD. That was a blast.
I ran with B group there... which I will always do if I'm unfamiliar with the track.
I'm running Infineon May 17 with HOD.... also B group (same reason).
Definitely going to get in some spring/summer days at Thunderhill this year.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:04 PM   #4
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I started with David Ray and HOD and have been running Trackmasters and NASA all last year. I will be driving with HOD predominantly this year. I decided I'm too old to pursue a race license and want to track for fun. I can ask David to drop me down to B Group and run with you at Infineon on May 17. I picked this one because of the weather.

My race mechanic is Tom Wickersham (Competition Autowerks) in San Ramon. He can install your suspension mods and corner weight your car too. David Ray hooked me up with him. He tracks a Spec Miata and is very experienced with S197 Mustangs as well as other race cars.

Filip Trojanek of Coretex Racing is located at Infineon Raceway. He might be a good source of information as he has developed suspension kits that are similar to Griggs racing. He is a great guy and offers suspension adjustment tweaks and support for your car while at any event at Infineon Raceway.

If you go with Sam Strano, Koni Yellows, springs and his sway bars mayl be your best bet and he can give you suspension adjustment advice too.
See ya soon. I have a Vista Blue Roush 427R, white strip kit.

Last edited by Campo 427R; 04-16-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:09 PM   #5
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If you are able to get ahold of sam, he'll give you decent advice. Except he'll tell you that you don't need upgraded control arms. Apparently, his stock autocross class didn't allow them.

Of course, the experts unanimously recommend upgraded control arms. Dual purpose cars (street-track) do well with control arms which feature a polyurethane bushing one end and a spherical bushing on the other end. But the hardcore racers use sphericals at both ends.

Here are UPR's Pro Street arms, which are a great dual-purpose option:
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...street-05.html
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:47 PM   #6
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As other's have said, if you give Sam Strano a call he'll give ya solid advice and won't try to sell you anything you don't need. More than likely I'll bet he recommends a linear rate spring (aka Steeda Sports or Comps) and Koni dampers. I have Steeda Comp springs and Tokico D-specs and I'm more than happy with them through multiple autocrosses and track days, though if I had to do it again I'd go with the Koni Yellows. Both dampers are adjustable, so you can adjust them at the track, then put them on full soft for street driving. Sam also has some nifty swaybar packages that I've been eyeing myself for a while...

If you want coil-overs, I personally would go with the AST coilovers from Vorshlag for a good race setup. I've done some research and other coil-overs (i.e Eibach) will get the job done, but are more geared for looks/the tuner crowd. Plus Vorshlag designed some pretty kickass camber plates to go with their coil-overs.

Speaking of camber plates, that's another solid investment (i.e. Steeda Strut mounts, Maximum Motorsport Caster/Camber plates, or the Vorshlag ones). You can get the alignment for just what you need, and whenever I track or autocross the car I adjust the camber out to increase front end grip and lessen tire outside shoulder wear.

With lowering, I'd also recommend an adjustable panhard bar to recenter the axle. I originally went with a UMI piece with rod ends, but after a couple thousand miles the rod ends began to loosen up and made a lot of clunking noise. I then swapped in the UMI roto-joints and its been solid and noise free for almost 10k miles. The rotojoints are also rebuildable, so if they do start to wear out and get noisy, you can tighten them back up again.

As for the rear control arms, they will help but I'd focus on springs/dampers first.

And finally, if you haven't already, the two biggest things I'd say to do first to go faster on the track (besides the driver mod) is to get some good tires and improve your brakes. For tires I've run Dunlop Direzza Sport Star Specs, Bridgestone RE-11's, and currently running Hankook R-S3's. Of those three, the R-S3's are my hands down favorite on the track. When they heat up they stick like R-comps and the more heat they get in 'em, the better they seem to perform. They don't seem to get greasy like the others when pushed straight through a solid 30 minute session, and from checking out other cars in the paddock, a lot of people agree. Not the best wet tire, although this last weekend I drove through some torrential downpours going to Willow Springs and they seemed to do fine.

For brakes, I'd upgrade the pads and swap in some DOT 4 racing brake fluid like Motul. There are a lot of pad choices out there and you can do some research on that, but I'm currently running Hawk HP+. They're not especially great on the track, they'll get greasy if you push them too hard, but they're better than stock and have good cold bite so I feel comfortable driving them to/from the track. (I'd swap them out though soon after you get back from the track, they are not a quiet street pad)

I'm not nearly an expert, but I've been bitten by the track bug as well. This is just advice from one guy, and everybody will have different inputs, but I hope this helps!
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:58 AM   #7
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+1. We (Vorshlag) found that wheels and tires, ASTs, our old design camber plates, and an adjustable panhard rod made a huge difference. We've got a new design camber plate coming out that should make adjustments easier, as they were a PITA with the old design.

But yes on the panhard. If you lower the car it's really necessary.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:20 PM   #8
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Looking at the rule book, I cant figure out why STU would be off limits for a Mustang.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPRSharad View Post
If you are able to get ahold of sam, he'll give you decent advice. Except he'll tell you that you don't need upgraded control arms. Apparently, his stock autocross class didn't allow them.

Of course, the experts unanimously recommend upgraded control arms. Dual purpose cars (street-track) do well with control arms which feature a polyurethane bushing one end and a spherical bushing on the other end. But the hardcore racers use sphericals at both ends.

Here are UPR's Pro Street arms, which are a great dual-purpose option:
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...street-05.html
Wow, really? Decent advice? How many national championships has he won and how many national championship winning cars has he played a part in the set up of? That isn't decent advice that is amazing advice. Sam has yet to lead me astray and his advice is backed up with experience both on a roadcourse and in autocross. The fact that he gives advice at all is a frakking miracle.

No, STOCK classes in autocross do not allow control arm upgrades, in Street Touring and Street Prepared you can only change the upper and not the lowers. In Street Modified, you can change the lowers but you can't use relocation brackets. In fact you can't use relocation brackets until Prepared. Sam raced his 5.0 in E-Street Prepared so no LCAs. No control arms until street mod can have sphericals anywhere. Lateral locatng devices and endlinks yes, but not control arms. That leaves you with the poly/poly bind problems.

I also agree with him, you don't NEED aftermarket control arms. I have zero wheel spin on Steeda Sports with stock control arms. Even if I could run aftermarket LCAs it wouldn't give me any better forward bite without relocation brackets so why bother? I'm still dealing with 200+ lbs of unsprung weight, what is 4lbs more using stock control arms?

It has taken a lot of restraint for me to not ask if you shouldn't be off blatantly ripping off another companies design rather than posting inflamatory crap about a fellow vendor (whoops, just did) on these boards. If anyone here is an expert on setting these cars up to handle, its Sam and NOT you. Is Sam the sole source of S197 handling, no, but he is easily the most available to us lamen then folks like Bruce Griggs or Filip at Cortex Racing.

The Mustang, per the Street Touring reorganization is required to be in STX if the engine displacement is 5.0L or below. They can no longer be a part of STU unless they are engine displacement of more than 5.0L. It states that in Appendix A under Street Touring Xtreme and Street Touring Ultra.

OP, before dumping money into lower control arms, lower the car and see if you have any wheelspin. I don't and an aftermarket set of LCAs woht give me anymore forward bite worth mentioning let alohe worth the cost to buy them. The UCA isn't necessary with the 2 pc driveshaft but it can be a reasonable upgrade if you hafe excessive pinion angle change with the stock unit. It certainly isn't necessary like a set of good tires or good shocks/struts are or seat time either.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey11 View Post
Wow, really? Decent advice? How many national championships has he won and how many national championship winning cars has he played a part in the set up of? That isn't decent advice that is amazing advice. Sam has yet to lead me astray and his advice is backed up with experience both on a roadcourse and in autocross. The fact that he gives advice at all is a frakking miracle.

No, STOCK classes in autocross do not allow control arm upgrades, in Street Touring and Street Prepared you can only change the upper and not the lowers. In Street Modified, you can change the lowers but you can't use relocation brackets. In fact you can't use relocation brackets until Prepared. Sam raced his 5.0 in E-Street Prepared so no LCAs. No control arms until street mod can have sphericals anywhere. Lateral locatng devices and endlinks yes, but not control arms. That leaves you with the poly/poly bind problems.

I also agree with him, you don't NEED aftermarket control arms. I have zero wheel spin on Steeda Sports with stock control arms. Even if I could run aftermarket LCAs it wouldn't give me any better forward bite without relocation brackets so why bother? I'm still dealing with 200+ lbs of unsprung weight, what is 4lbs more using stock control arms?

It has taken a lot of restraint for me to not ask if you shouldn't be off blatantly ripping off another companies design rather than posting inflamatory crap about a fellow vendor (whoops, just did) on these boards. If anyone here is an expert on setting these cars up to handle, its Sam and NOT you. Is Sam the sole source of S197 handling, no, but he is easily the most available to us lamen then folks like Bruce Griggs or Filip at Cortex Racing.

The Mustang, per the Street Touring reorganization is required to be in STX if the engine displacement is 5.0L or below. They can no longer be a part of STU unless they are engine displacement of more than 5.0L. It states that in Appendix A under Street Touring Xtreme and Street Touring Ultra.

OP, before dumping money into lower control arms, lower the car and see if you have any wheelspin. I don't and an aftermarket set of LCAs woht give me anymore forward bite worth mentioning let alohe worth the cost to buy them. The UCA isn't necessary with the 2 pc driveshaft but it can be a reasonable upgrade if you hafe excessive pinion angle change with the stock unit. It certainly isn't necessary like a set of good tires or good shocks/struts are or seat time either.
HAHAHA!! Touched a nerve there, huh?



ron_v: suspension upgrades should be heavily researched because a good setup offers significant benefits, while a bad setup can have disastrous results. I'm happy to give advice on this forum because mustangforums.com is a great group of Mustang people. That's why we spend quite a bit of money supporting the site.

My strong suggestion is for you to ask plenty of questions. Keep in mind that some people will answer your questions a certain way because they have an agenda. Other people will answer your questions a certain way because they have limited experience. But you will notice that there will be a general consensus among the experts. People who work in the Mustang racing industry for a living are able to draw on a broad knowledge base, whether that knowledge comes from manufacturing, interfacing with the end-user, personal experience on the racetrack, or a combination of all three.

Ask the experts, and sam will be the only one to insist that LCAs don't make a difference. The rest of the experts recommend them unanimously. But don't just take it from me. Ask around.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:27 PM
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