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S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

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Old 05-25-2012, 02:12 PM   #1
jcieutat
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Default Alignment specs after Eibach Pro Kit install

I got my Eibach Pro Kit installed last week and decided to let my car sit for a week to see if the springs needed some time to settle. I went today and had it aligned. I bought the Eibach Camber bolts just in case. I got a call from the alignment shop to come and take a look at the car. It was hooked up to the machine that showed the specs. The drivers front tire negative camber was at -1.4. The technician said that he could not get it any better than that. According to the image attached, it started it -1.8. I thought these bolts were supposed to be able to correct up to +/-1.75 degrees? He had the passenger side down to a -.4 but then adjusted the passenger front to match the driver front so it would not pull. Should I be OK with these settings?

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Old 05-25-2012, 03:11 PM   #2
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You can stand next to the car and clearly see the negative camber. I hate to say it but I might have to bite the bullet and buy the MM Caster Camber plates MM5CC-6. I hope I can put them on myself since I just paid to put the rest of this stuff on!
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:36 PM   #3
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I don't know the before/after numbers specifically, but I believe the before numbers were just about the same. I do have the Eibach Pro Kit and I used the Camber Bolts to fix that nasty negative camber. They brought my wheels back to factory specs very well. They should be able to align those things with those bolts...
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:48 AM   #4
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I have to think that this guy did not know what he was doing. He could not even adjust the camber setting with the camber bolts. I went ahead and ordered the MM Caster Camber plates. There goes my drilled/slotted zinc plated rotors!
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astentine View Post
I don't know the before/after numbers specifically, but I believe the before numbers were just about the same. I do have the Eibach Pro Kit and I used the Camber Bolts to fix that nasty negative camber. They brought my wheels back to factory specs very well. They should be able to align those things with those bolts...
Yeah -1.4 isn't nasty camber, this is nasty camber:
Click the image to open in full size.

That is -4.0 of camber.

I'm not sure why the Mustang Community is so frightened by the idea of negative camber and cornering. Especially in a section devoted towards handling of which having the proper amount of negative camber is important to good handling. This isn't the "road manors section."

To be honest the value you need to worry about is the toe and how extreme it is. Having a lot of toe in either direction can destroy tires raster than camber ever will.

I think it is pretty common knowledge that Ford aloows up to -1.5 degrees of camber and still be in the acceptable tire wear category for these cars and in the grand scheme of things that isn't a lot of negative camber compared to what some people run on the street. Before someone says "the picture you posted is of racecar not street car!" The car is daily driven without all the stickers and rear wing.

I'm at -1.7 degrees of camber and after 2k miles (god has it already been that many =/) I'm not seeing any abnormal wear. I'm a bit more spirited in my driving and autocross once or twice (on a good month) a month but the majority of my driving is still relatively straight lines and gentle curves.

Also, please do get the MM plates and get rid of those bolts while you are at it...
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:36 AM   #6
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I just hate the look of the negative camber on my car. It reminds me of these kids that drop a honda civic and then do not get it realigned! I am going to go ahead and keep the MM caster camber plates. It just sucks that I literally just paid to have this suspension put on. I am going to install them myself and unfortunately pay for another alignment to get it around -.5 camber.

It is my fault for not doing this the first time (story of my life)....
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:20 PM   #7
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I agree, it looks terrible. But I have to disagree about the toe being the problem. My tires got worn so fast by my negative camber, not my toe.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey11 View Post
Yeah -1.4 isn't nasty camber, this is nasty camber:
Click the image to open in full size.

That is -4.0 of camber.

I'm not sure why the Mustang Community is so frightened by the idea of negative camber and cornering. Especially in a section devoted towards handling of which having the proper amount of negative camber is important to good handling. This isn't the "road manors section."

To be honest the value you need to worry about is the toe and how extreme it is. Having a lot of toe in either direction can destroy tires raster than camber ever will.

I think it is pretty common knowledge that Ford aloows up to -1.5 degrees of camber and still be in the acceptable tire wear category for these cars and in the grand scheme of things that isn't a lot of negative camber compared to what some people run on the street. Before someone says "the picture you posted is of racecar not street car!" The car is daily driven without all the stickers and rear wing.

I'm at -1.7 degrees of camber and after 2k miles (god has it already been that many =/) I'm not seeing any abnormal wear. I'm a bit more spirited in my driving and autocross once or twice (on a good month) a month but the majority of my driving is still relatively straight lines and gentle curves.

Also, please do get the MM plates and get rid of those bolts while you are at it...

At -1.4°, I'd leave it exactly how it is. I'd expect the MM cc-plates to improve steering feel by eliminating some of the bushing material the factory strut mounts have, but I wouldn't use them to reduce the amount of negative camber you have.

It is a popular misconception that negative camber is bad. TOO MUCH or TOO LITTLE negative camber is bad, but the ideal aggressive-street setting might be in the neighborhood of -1.5° give or take a tenth or two.

As shown above, Terry likes a ton of negative camber, as do other notable racers, but those are competition setups. My car started at -1.5°, but when I installed my Koni Yellows this weekend with GT500 strut mounts, I laid them in just a little more. I haven't re-aligned it yet (need to install my tubular k-member first) but it looks to be around -2°. I'll tell you this, I can SEE the additional negative camber and it DID improve front grip. Very interesting. (to me anyway)

Here's what mine looks like now:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by UPRSharad; 05-28-2012 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcieutat View Post
I just hate the look of the negative camber on my car. It reminds me of these kids that drop a honda civic and then do not get it realigned! I am going to go ahead and keep the MM caster camber plates. It just sucks that I literally just paid to have this suspension put on. I am going to install them myself and unfortunately pay for another alignment to get it around -.5 camber.

It is my fault for not doing this the first time (story of my life)....
So you hate negative camber because it looks ricer? I would hate to have you see a Boss302R and call it "rice" at its competition camber...

I would like to thank you for perpetuating the idea that American cars can't handle because they are understeering pigs. Without negative camber that is exactly what it will do. Like Sharad said, too little is just as bad as too muchh but not in the sense of tire wear. From the factory you have -.75 degrees I don't recommend going less than that, especially if you enjoy handling at all. Which judging by the post in the handling section you have at least a minor interest in... -.4 is really not enough...

Sharad, Amy daily drives the car. I'm not sure if they do so at that camber setting but after having chatted with him at spring nationals I wouldn't gbe surprised if they do!
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:55 AM   #10
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I posted in the handling section because my question was related to the suspension. I will never go to a track or race this car. This car is my vehicle to run errands and go to the gym. I have a work vehicle. I put the Eibach kit on it purely for looks. I do appreciate your knowledge in the matter and response to my question as I am clueless. I will have the camber set to -.75. Do the rest of the specs on the alignment photo look right to you?
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:55 AM
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