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S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

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18's Vs 20's

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Old 05-11-2013, 05:12 PM   #1
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Default 18's Vs 20's

Hey Everyone,

I understand that the 18's are better performance wise, but I really like the look of the 20's. I am basically looking to see how drastic of a difference there is (performance wise) between the two. Specifically in turning/cornering, and pick-up. If there isn't a huge difference I will most likely go with the 20's.

Thanks!
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #2
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20's are typically heavier than 18's so you're adding additional rotational mass. On a GT, a few people would never notice. But on your V6, you WILL notice any additional mass.

With 20's, you have less sidewall in order to maintain the equivalent OE outside diameter (O.D.). Less sidewall usually means a stiffer/harsher ride and will increase the possibility of a bent wheel from potholes.

Then there are those that think 20's on most Stangs look poorly (can you say clown car?). Of all the Stangs that I've seen with 20's, MAYBE 5% of them look appealing. Of the other 95%, all you see is wheel and then "oh, yeah, look there's a car attached to them". But then, that's just my opinion.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:32 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Nuke View Post
on your V6, you WILL notice any additional mass. Less sidewall usually means a stiffer/harsher ride and will increase the possibility of a bent wheel from potholes. Of all the Stangs that I've seen with 20's, MAYBE 5% of them look appealing. But then, that's just my opinion.
Everything you have said all makes sense, I read on another thread that 20's can drop down nearly 10 HP/TQ. When you say "harsher," how harsh are we talking? I feel like my suspension has always hit like a ton of bricks. (I would like to get air ride suspension eventually but that's a different story)

These are the rims I am looking at purchasing.. Maybe they are in your 5%
http://www.americanmuscle.com/black-...eels-0511.html
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:33 AM   #4
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18 is the perfect muscular stance for these cars.......IMO of course. Pimp yo ride 20's, no thanks. LOL Those wheels will look awesome.....in 18's of course.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:41 AM   #5
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My opinion is any wheel above 19" is too much, as to air suspension, saw a thread yesterday of a black stang w/22", not pretty!
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:59 AM   #6
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My opinion is any wheel above 19" is too much, as to air suspension, saw a thread yesterday of a black stang w/22", not pretty!
Of course the rim I want doesn't come in a 19, If there was a 19 my decision might be a lot easier. (Tire selection factors in as well) And please, go on.. was it because of the 22's or the suspension? I think 20's are pushin it as is.. 22's on a Mustang is just stupid honestly.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:06 AM   #7
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Pimp yo ride 20's, no thanks. LOL Those wheels will look awesome.....in 18's of course.
Lol, thanks! I wasn't even going to consider the 20's until I saw that they were actually cheaper than the 18's..
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:31 AM   #8
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Everything you have said all makes sense, I read on another thread that 20's can drop down nearly 10 HP/TQ.
It is a waste of time trying to correlate wheel diameter to "HP/TQ loss". You need to know quite a few more things in order to make even a halfway intelligent guess.

Putting 20's on an early-year sixxer may project a somewhat unexpected (and less than favorable) image in some circles.


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When you say "harsher," how harsh are we talking? I feel like my suspension has always hit like a ton of bricks. (I would like to get air ride suspension eventually but that's a different story)
Put at least 5 psi more in all of your tires and see if you can stand that much additional harshness. Make that closer to 10 psi more to see if you could stand it all of the time.


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These are the rims I am looking at purchasing.. Maybe they are in your 5%
http://www.americanmuscle.com/black-...eels-0511.html
Appearance has to be your call and your call alone. With imitation 2-piece/3-piece styling, those would be too "busy" for me.


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Old 05-12-2013, 08:56 AM   #9
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It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want 20s for looks, it's entirely up to you, just like Norm said. Everyone else will have opinions, and not a single one of them matters.

If you are looking for performance benefits, then go with the 18s.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:26 AM   #10
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Put at least 5 psi more in all of your tires and see if you can stand that much additional harshness. Make that closer to 10 psi more to see if you could stand it all of the time.

Appearance has to be your call and your call alone. With imitation 2-piece/3-piece styling, those would be too "busy" for me.Norm
Thanks, that sounds like a good comparison.
Well, IMO rims are a lot about appearance. What do you mean by "busy?" Would 2 or 3 piece rims perform differently than a solid piece? I know a solid piece would obviously be stronger but besides that what else?
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #11
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It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want 20s for looks, it's entirely up to you, just like Norm said. Everyone else will have opinions, and not a single one of them matters.

If you are looking for performance benefits, then go with the 18s.
Well, I like to have some fun and take hard corners and whatnot so handling is definitely a big factor. If 18's have a drastic difference over the 20's (handling wise) then it's really a no contest for me. Yea, I think the 20's look good.. but that's not the only thing I care about.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:53 AM   #12
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Thanks, that sounds like a good comparison.
Well, IMO rims are a lot about appearance. What do you mean by "busy?" Would 2 or 3 piece rims perform differently than a solid piece? I know a solid piece would obviously be stronger but besides that what else?
To me, all those little imitation fastener heads just clutter the wheel up and draw my eye away from the wheel as a whole to them individually. And no, I don't like the appearance of real multi-piece wheel fastener heads any better even though they have every reason for being visible.

I don't think you'd ever be able to tell the difference between 1-piece and multi-piece wheels of roughly the same weight, and you'd have to be a pretty sensitive person to be able to notice small weight differences.

One piece wheels have one HUGE advantage over 2- or 3-piece wheels . . . they won't ever leak along the joint or around the fasteners.


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Old 05-12-2013, 11:27 AM   #13
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To me, all those little imitation fastener heads just clutter the wheel up and draw my eye away from the wheel as a whole to them individually.

I don't think you'd ever be able to tell the difference between 1-piece and multi-piece wheels of roughly the same weight

One piece wheels have one HUGE advantage over 2- or 3-piece wheels . . . they won't ever leak along the joint or around the fasteners.


Norm
Ahh I see, look wise it's just not appealing to you. Your point about the one piece wheels makes sense, I'm sure it is going to be a pain to wash those rims. But I personally like the look, and Im leaning back towards the 18's from what I have heard from everyone so far.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:02 PM   #14
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18 is the perfect muscular stance for these cars.......IMO of course. Pimp yo ride 20's, no thanks. LOL Those wheels will look awesome.....in 18's of course.
808muscle has obviously never driven thru a ghetto and seen a real pimp carClick the image to open in full size.

and NUKE must have a fear of clowns because he compares everything he doesn't like to a clown car Click the image to open in full size.

............First of all buy what you like best because the performance differences aren't going to matter unless you take your car to the track regularly. As far as everyday driving the biggest concern mentioned by nuke is watching for pot holes because a big one can ruin the tire and rim. What I've noticed between18's and 20's, when I went to 20's with a wider tire I could immediately feel the difference in everyday driving. Response is quicker, tighter and more nimble but the ride is more harsh. The thing with 18's is when you are driving really really hard the tire itself gives you better feedback vs a 20 with lower profile tires. With 20's it's much harder to feel when they are at their limits of adhesion and if you push the limit too far then you can suddenly find yourself in an unexpected drift, but this will be a problem only if you are a very aggressive driver. If 19s were more available and 19" tires weren't way more expensive I would have got 19's instead to have a happy medium. Other than that, just buy what you like best.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #15
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[B][SIZE="2"]808muscle has obviously never driven thru a ghetto and seen a real pimp car

............First of all buy what you like best because the performance differences aren't going to matter unless you take your car to the track regularly. As far as everyday driving the biggest concern mentioned by nuke is watching for pot holes because a big one can ruin the tire and rim. What I've noticed between18's and 20's, when I went to 20's with a wider tire I could immediately feel the difference in everyday driving. Response is quicker, tighter and more nimble but the ride is more harsh. The thing with 18's is when you are driving really really hard the tire itself gives you better feedback vs a 20 with lower profile tires. With 20's it's much harder to feel when they are at their limits of adhesion and if you push the limit too far then you can suddenly find yourself in an unexpected drift, but this will be a problem only if you are a very aggressive driver. If 19s were more available and 19" tires weren't way more expensive I would have got 19's instead to have a happy medium. Other than that, just buy what you like best.
I too would be looking at 19's if they were available. I would definitely say I'm an aggressive driver, kinda why I got a Mustang to begin with.. From your experience would you say the 20's handle just as well as your 18's? I get what your saying about a lower profile tire, and it makes sense. But I guess what I'm getting at is would you be able to take a 20 as hard as you would an 18?
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:28 PM   #16
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I too would be looking at 19's if they were available. I would definitely say I'm an aggressive driver, kinda why I got a Mustang to begin with.. From your experience would you say the 20's handle just as well as your 18's? I get what your saying about a lower profile tire, and it makes sense. But I guess what I'm getting at is would you be able to take a 20 as hard as you would an 18?
I think that depends on the width of your tires in relation to your wheel size. However, just comparing the two (tire sizes being equal) you will feel more nimble in the turns with 18's without a doubt, but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in everyday driving.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:17 PM   #17
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I too would be looking at 19's if they were available. I would definitely say I'm an aggressive driver, kinda why I got a Mustang to begin with.. From your experience would you say the 20's handle just as well as your 18's? I get what your saying about a lower profile tire, and it makes sense. But I guess what I'm getting at is would you be able to take a 20 as hard as you would an 18?
I can drive harder with the 20s than I did with 17s or 18s. I had the stock 235/50 18s and now have 255/35 20s on my 2011 and my '07 I had the stock 17s with 235 55 17s and I could immediately feel the improvement when I went to 20s, although just tires can have a lot to do with it. The stock tires are all season where as I have max performance summer tires now. Quick hard turns are more tight and crisp. It's not as mushy in high speed slalom type movements or accident avoidance type maneuvers. Long sweeping turns at high speed feel planted and stable but that's where it can bite you until you learn the the limits and get the feel of it.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:53 PM   #18
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I can drive harder with the 20s than I did with 17s or 18s. I had the stock 235/50 18s and now have 255/35 20s on my 2011 and my '07 I had the stock 17s with 235 55 17s and I could immediately feel the improvement when I went to 20s, although just tires can have a lot to do with it.
There should be a noticeable difference in response between 235/50 and 255/35 even if the wheel diameter for both sizes was the same. Particularly if the 255/35's were mounted on wheels an inch wider than what the 235/50's were fitted to.

But at some point, you can have a tire sidewall that's too short for the level of suspension tuning. A short-sidewall tire tends to be more sensitive to the camber that it is actually running at when the car is rolled over in a turn, and will give away more of its potential grip than a tire with a little more sidewall would. There's a trade-off between steering response and camber tolerance going on, and I think somewhere around a 4" sidewall height (taken as one half of the difference between tire OD and rim diameter) is a good place to be.

Truth be told, I wasn't all that crazy about 18" wheels when I got my '08. But I was even less happy with the prospect of 55 profile tires and little in the way of 17" upgrades. It's still a PITA to change wheel/tire combinations that weigh 55 lbs or so.


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The stock tires are all season where as I have max performance summer tires now. Quick hard turns are more tight and crisp. It's not as mushy in high speed slalom type movements or accident avoidance type maneuvers. Long sweeping turns at high speed feel planted and stable but that's where it can bite you until you learn the the limits and get the feel of it.
Exactly what is to be expected, and again particularly true if the wider/lower profile tires are mounted on wider rims appropriate to their size.

The flip side of response being more linear is less warning before it lets go and slides. Easier to drive harder up to just below the point where the driver had better be on his A-game.


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Old 05-12-2013, 07:09 PM   #19
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I agree with mph07alloy. I have 20's on my 2011 mustang gt and I think the handling improved. Anything bigger would have it looking like garbage. The only knock I have on my 20's is that at highway speeds it does ride a bit rougher than an 18 or 19. However in town you will never feel it. I just feel it fills in the wheel well better than the stock 18's and 19's once you upgrade the suspension and lower it an inch to inch an a half. But ultimately it is up to ones preference.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:40 PM   #20
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The flip side of response being more linear is less warning before it lets go and slides. Easier to drive harder up to just below the point where the driver had better be on his A-game.


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Exactly, it happened to me once. When I first put 20s on my '07 I thought I was invincible going around a sharp curve and with no warnign, no squeals from the tires, no feeling of the car slipping, BAM next thing I know I'm sideways at 50 mph staring at a big ole Arkansas pine tree. Luckily I recovered it but I learned the disadvantage of the lower profile tire quickly.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:40 PM
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