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S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:52 AM   #21
Toxix
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Don't hate on the 20s
Its added weight for sure - Can't say ride quality is the best either.

20s + Coils isn't "Pimp yo ride" sorry dad. It all depends on how you dress it. Stance matters.

Low and slow:

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Old 05-13-2013, 05:26 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by mph07alloy View Post
I can drive harder with the 20s than I did with 17s or 18s. I had the stock 235/50 18s and now have 255/35 20s on my 2011 and my '07 I had the stock 17s with 235 55 17s and I could immediately feel the improvement when I went to 20s, although just tires can have a lot to do with it. The stock tires are all season where as I have max performance summer tires now. Quick hard turns are more tight and crisp. It's not as mushy in high speed slalom type movements or accident avoidance type maneuvers. Long sweeping turns at high speed feel planted and stable but that's where it can bite you until you learn the the limits and get the feel of it.
I'm actually surprised to hear that. I feel like most of the reviews I have read on 20's were negative. Sounds like if I took the time to get used to having a bigger rim and the low profile tire it would work out just fine. I feel like after every modification you have to re-learn the feel.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:43 PM   #23
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But at some point, you can have a tire sidewall that's too short for the level of suspension tuning. A short-sidewall tire tends to be more sensitive to the camber that it is actually running at when the car is rolled over in a turn, and will give away more of its potential grip than a tire with a little more sidewall would. There's a trade-off between steering response and camber tolerance going on, and I think somewhere around a 4" sidewall height (taken as one half of the difference between tire OD and rim diameter) is a good place to be.


Exactly what is to be expected, and again particularly true if the wider/lower profile tires are mounted on wider rims appropriate to their size.

The flip side of response being more linear is less warning before it lets go and slides. Easier to drive harder up to just below the point where the driver had better be on his A-game.


Norm
Would you say the low profile 20'' tires have enough sidewall for grip. I was specifically looking at the Nitto's on American Muscle, they have some great reviews. Like I said I dont mind "re-learning" the feel of my car. I was considering getting staggered wheels, is it worth it? I feel like the back Tires would wear out a lot quicker than the front.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Toxix View Post
Don't hate on the 20s
Its added weight for sure - Can't say ride quality is the best either.

20s + Coils isn't "Pimp yo ride" sorry dad. It all depends on how you dress it. Stance matters.

Low and slow:

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Damn Man, that's a nice looking sixer.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #25
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I'm actually surprised to hear that. I feel like most of the reviews I have read on 20's were negative. Sounds like if I took the time to get used to having a bigger rim and the low profile tire it would work out just fine. I feel like after every modification you have to re-learn the feel.
There's a lot going on. With 20's, the wheel mass and the tire mass is further away from the axis of rotation, making for more rotational inertia (and a tiny bit slower acceleration). Shorter and stiffer sidewalls are not as well suited to sudden shock loads such as you get during a dragstrip-style start. What you've heard is probably based on these items.

But the more linear cornering behavior that generally comes with short sidewall tires makes it easier to drive them harder in the turns - more linear essentially means that you don't start feeling them start to slide as soon or as noticeably, so you keep pushing them harder. The usual "front tires starting to slide/make noise clues that they're about to run out of grip come much closer to the point where they actually DO run out of grip than happens with taller sidewall tires and lower-performance tires in general. If you're power-on and it's the rear tires about to go, the transition into power-oversteer can occur more suddenly.


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Originally Posted by StangMuscle View Post
Would you say the low profile 20'' tires have enough sidewall for grip. I was specifically looking at the Nitto's on American Muscle, they have some great reviews. Like I said I dont mind "re-learning" the feel of my car. I was considering getting staggered wheels, is it worth it? I feel like the back Tires would wear out a lot quicker than the front.
Most tires have more than enough grip for most drivers under most conditions - it's really pretty rare for people to intentionally drive at 0.5 lateral g let alone significantly past that unless they're autocrossing or running at a road course track day. It's up a lot closer to the tires' limits that things like sidewall height and camber start to matter enough to, well, matter.

Whether your front tires or your rear tires wear out faster depends a bit on your mix of hard cornering, hard braking, and acceleration. In general, a staggered setup brings on slightly to somewhat heavier understeer, but again this is something that isn't all that noticeable until you're pulling a lot more lateral g's than the average driver is ever likely to outside of having to make an emergency avoidance swerve. At which time, most folks would be too busy doing the avoiding (or just standing on the brake pedal and praying) to notice whether the understeer was more.


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Old 05-13-2013, 08:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
There's a lot going on. With 20's, the wheel mass and the tire mass is further away from the axis of rotation, making for more rotational inertia (and a tiny bit slower acceleration). Shorter and stiffer sidewalls are not as well suited to sudden shock loads such as you get during a dragstrip-style start. What you've heard is probably based on these items.

But the more linear cornering behavior that generally comes with short sidewall tires makes it easier to drive them harder in the turns - more linear essentially means that you don't start feeling them start to slide as soon or as noticeably, so you keep pushing them harder. The usual "front tires starting to slide/make noise clues that they're about to run out of grip come much closer to the point where they actually DO run out of grip than happens with taller sidewall tires and lower-performance tires in general. If you're power-on and it's the rear tires about to go, the transition into power-oversteer can occur more suddenly.



Most tires have more than enough grip for most drivers under most conditions - it's really pretty rare for people to intentionally drive at 0.5 lateral g let alone significantly past that unless they're autocrossing or running at a road course track day. It's up a lot closer to the tires' limits that things like sidewall height and camber start to matter enough to, well, matter.

Whether your front tires or your rear tires wear out faster depends a bit on your mix of hard cornering, hard braking, and acceleration. In general, a staggered setup brings on slightly to somewhat heavier understeer, but again this is something that isn't all that noticeable until you're pulling a lot more lateral g's than the average driver is ever likely to outside of having to make an emergency avoidance swerve. At which time, most folks would be too busy doing the avoiding (or just standing on the brake pedal and praying) to notice whether the understeer was more.


Norm
All in all from what everyone has told me going with 20's might not be a bad route. I love taking tight corners and doing the occasional drifting and having fun, So it's great to hear that by going with 20's I can still do that..and perhaps have an even better response than my stock 17'' or 18'' rims. I would be willing to sacrifice some acceleration and a harsher feel for better handling and a nice looking set of wheels. Plus I have upgrades planned for the future, I can always make it faster! lol. I dont plan on making this a drag racer, although I would like to see my 4.0 at 500hp some day
Thank you everyone who has contributed, your awesome!
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:32 PM   #27
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...and NUKE must have a fear of clowns because he compares everything he doesn't like to a clown car ...
I do not, you clown car...
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #28
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20 inch LOOKS THE MUTTS NUTS..but they slow the car down and crap out the handling imho.
i'de say 20"'s are kinda ok on the v8..on the v6 they sap too much power..
maybe a pukka set of wheels like oz's would be a good option.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:58 PM
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