Wreck
12-31-2013, 04:44 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 155
Wreck
I lost the back end exiting a 3rd gear left, recovered poorly and backed in to a 3’ thick concrete wall at maybe 50 mph. The car is bent, $15k to fix properly. I’m not sure why I’m posting this, I come out looking a bit idiotic. Maybe someone might learn from my mistakes.
It had just started to rain. I swear I was at my normal pace 2 corners earlier, but there was some rain on the windscreen and the track started to look wet so I had slowed down for the previous two corners. When the crash happened, the rear came around very gently and I noticed too late, turned into the skid too slowly, and finally realized the car was gone. I hit the brakes hard hoping to spin on the tarmac and miss the wall, but I was too late for that too and was heading backwards straight for the wall. Hard hit to the driver’s rear, airbags pop, banged my head against the side glass, and ripped the driver’s front wheel right off! I loved that car.
That was my 10th track day this year, and probably around the 30th in the mustang. I’ve done maybe 100 car track days in various cars (10/yr for about the last 10 yrs), and I won a couple of local amateur bike racing championships back when I was young and fast. I’m not a newb, but I sure made some newbie mistakes.
I had a great day up until the crash. I was going fast, in control, and probably running with cars I shouldn’t have. Needless to say, I was brimming with confidence, and barely concerned about running a 410 RWHp car with no stability control in the occasional light rain. If I’d had a crap day, I probably would have just gone home at the first sign of rain. Even though I knew the track was wet, I stayed on the racing line. What a knucklehead. Everybody knows that’s the worst place to be when it starts raining, right? Duh!
My car was setup very balanced on dry pavement. I ran a square setup, 275/35/18 pilot SS all around, lowered an inch on ‘Strano’ springs, and had the Torsen diff fitted. My years on bikes mean I tend to get on the gas very early, so I tend to slide exiting corners. I loved the way the car felt when I was power-sliding, but I sure wish the inside rear had lit up that day! Maybe a little more understeer is ok, right?
My car was afflicted with the dreaded 2011 GT steering wobble, and I had completely disconnected the stability control while trying to diagnose it. It still wobbled with the systems disconnected, but even so I didn’t reconnect. The car was a blast to drive like that all summer, however I had seen no rain (!) until that fateful day. I had installed the racing steering rack two events earlier which solved the problem, but I loved the way the car felt with all the “nannies” off so, again, I chose not to reconnect. What a moron. Dumbest. Move. Ever!
Lessons learned:
1. Stability control is good.
2. Rain is bad.
It had just started to rain. I swear I was at my normal pace 2 corners earlier, but there was some rain on the windscreen and the track started to look wet so I had slowed down for the previous two corners. When the crash happened, the rear came around very gently and I noticed too late, turned into the skid too slowly, and finally realized the car was gone. I hit the brakes hard hoping to spin on the tarmac and miss the wall, but I was too late for that too and was heading backwards straight for the wall. Hard hit to the driver’s rear, airbags pop, banged my head against the side glass, and ripped the driver’s front wheel right off! I loved that car.
That was my 10th track day this year, and probably around the 30th in the mustang. I’ve done maybe 100 car track days in various cars (10/yr for about the last 10 yrs), and I won a couple of local amateur bike racing championships back when I was young and fast. I’m not a newb, but I sure made some newbie mistakes.
I had a great day up until the crash. I was going fast, in control, and probably running with cars I shouldn’t have. Needless to say, I was brimming with confidence, and barely concerned about running a 410 RWHp car with no stability control in the occasional light rain. If I’d had a crap day, I probably would have just gone home at the first sign of rain. Even though I knew the track was wet, I stayed on the racing line. What a knucklehead. Everybody knows that’s the worst place to be when it starts raining, right? Duh!
My car was setup very balanced on dry pavement. I ran a square setup, 275/35/18 pilot SS all around, lowered an inch on ‘Strano’ springs, and had the Torsen diff fitted. My years on bikes mean I tend to get on the gas very early, so I tend to slide exiting corners. I loved the way the car felt when I was power-sliding, but I sure wish the inside rear had lit up that day! Maybe a little more understeer is ok, right?
My car was afflicted with the dreaded 2011 GT steering wobble, and I had completely disconnected the stability control while trying to diagnose it. It still wobbled with the systems disconnected, but even so I didn’t reconnect. The car was a blast to drive like that all summer, however I had seen no rain (!) until that fateful day. I had installed the racing steering rack two events earlier which solved the problem, but I loved the way the car felt with all the “nannies” off so, again, I chose not to reconnect. What a moron. Dumbest. Move. Ever!
Lessons learned:
1. Stability control is good.
2. Rain is bad.
12-31-2013, 06:50 PM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 406
Oooops! 
Lots of things look different with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. You were on a track, not a highway, you go there to push the limits, you pushed a might too hard this once .... can't unwind the clock.
Look forward, not back. The knowledge gained will help you down the road.
Lots of things look different with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. You were on a track, not a highway, you go there to push the limits, you pushed a might too hard this once .... can't unwind the clock.
Look forward, not back. The knowledge gained will help you down the road.
12-31-2013, 09:19 PM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 155
Oooops!
Lots of things look different with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. You were on a track, not a highway, you go there to push the limits, you pushed a might too hard this once .... can't unwind the clock.
Look forward, not back. The knowledge gained will help you down the road.
Lots of things look different with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. You were on a track, not a highway, you go there to push the limits, you pushed a might too hard this once .... can't unwind the clock.
Look forward, not back. The knowledge gained will help you down the road.
01-01-2014, 12:34 AM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BC
Posts: 244
That just plain sucks. Sorry to hear it.
I'm at about the same place you are. I've done track days, as many as 12 a year, for the last ten years. Things have changed a lot. In the old days, fast cars were fast but now they're slow. New cars have come on the scene with amazing capabilities like the GTR, the WRX and the GT3RS. While a Mustang might keep up, you give up a lot of margin to do it, if you're good enough as a driver to do it at all.
I decided probably three years ago to drop out of the game in 2014. I was going to be "done" with track days. It was getting too dangerous and too fast. Then, last summer, I had an epiphany. I had a horrible day at my favorite track - couldn't keep up with the endless stream of hot drivers and GT3's. Literally. So the next time out I signed up as a rank beginner. Lowest of the low, slowest of the slow. It was a huge amount of fun, actually. Just drive the car and work on style. It was a revelation.
So, Ansibe, I feel for you - if I crunched my car, I'd be devastated, as I'm sure you are. So figure out what you want to do, and where and how you want to do it. If you want to run at the front of A group, then get a GT3 and get on with it. If you want fun, then figure out where you want to run, and settle in for some great track time. There's nothing like it, really.
I'm at about the same place you are. I've done track days, as many as 12 a year, for the last ten years. Things have changed a lot. In the old days, fast cars were fast but now they're slow. New cars have come on the scene with amazing capabilities like the GTR, the WRX and the GT3RS. While a Mustang might keep up, you give up a lot of margin to do it, if you're good enough as a driver to do it at all.
I decided probably three years ago to drop out of the game in 2014. I was going to be "done" with track days. It was getting too dangerous and too fast. Then, last summer, I had an epiphany. I had a horrible day at my favorite track - couldn't keep up with the endless stream of hot drivers and GT3's. Literally. So the next time out I signed up as a rank beginner. Lowest of the low, slowest of the slow. It was a huge amount of fun, actually. Just drive the car and work on style. It was a revelation.
So, Ansibe, I feel for you - if I crunched my car, I'd be devastated, as I'm sure you are. So figure out what you want to do, and where and how you want to do it. If you want to run at the front of A group, then get a GT3 and get on with it. If you want fun, then figure out where you want to run, and settle in for some great track time. There's nothing like it, really.
01-01-2014, 01:07 PM
#5
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 148
Damn, really sorry to hear it.
I've got about half as many track days as you with no brushes with k-walls/barriers yet and used to race short tracks decades ago. These days I just drive HPDE track days now and have gone off track twice, no incidents, just a drift and slide in the dirt and a constant supply of pebbles under the seats during car wash days.
This really makes me think of independent track day insurance as State Farm has ceased my HPDE accident coverage.
Concentration and focus is a must while on track, but accidents happen to skilled and experienced drivers out there.
Good luck, get her fixed or replaced and get back out there!
I've got about half as many track days as you with no brushes with k-walls/barriers yet and used to race short tracks decades ago. These days I just drive HPDE track days now and have gone off track twice, no incidents, just a drift and slide in the dirt and a constant supply of pebbles under the seats during car wash days.
This really makes me think of independent track day insurance as State Farm has ceased my HPDE accident coverage.
Concentration and focus is a must while on track, but accidents happen to skilled and experienced drivers out there.
Good luck, get her fixed or replaced and get back out there!
01-02-2014, 09:55 AM
#7
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
3.(?) What about tire compound vs ambient temperatures?
Sorry to hear . . . and since I'm looking at a January track day in NJ there's some personal interest in knowing more.
Norm
Sorry to hear . . . and since I'm looking at a January track day in NJ there's some personal interest in knowing more.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 01-02-2014 at 09:59 AM.
01-02-2014, 11:19 AM
#8
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
I lost the back end exiting a 3rd gear left, recovered poorly and backed in to a 3’ thick concrete wall at maybe 50 mph. The car is bent, $15k to fix properly. I’m not sure why I’m posting this, I come out looking a bit idiotic. Maybe someone might learn from my mistakes.
It had just started to rain. I swear I was at my normal pace 2 corners earlier, but there was some rain on the windscreen and the track started to look wet so I had slowed down for the previous two corners. When the crash happened, the rear came around very gently and I noticed too late, turned into the skid too slowly, and finally realized the car was gone. I hit the brakes hard hoping to spin on the tarmac and miss the wall, but I was too late for that too and was heading backwards straight for the wall. Hard hit to the driver’s rear, airbags pop, banged my head against the side glass, and ripped the driver’s front wheel right off! I loved that car.
That was my 10th track day this year, and probably around the 30th in the mustang. I’ve done maybe 100 car track days in various cars (10/yr for about the last 10 yrs), and I won a couple of local amateur bike racing championships back when I was young and fast. I’m not a newb, but I sure made some newbie mistakes.
I had a great day up until the crash. I was going fast, in control, and probably running with cars I shouldn’t have. Needless to say, I was brimming with confidence, and barely concerned about running a 410 RWHp car with no stability control in the occasional light rain. If I’d had a crap day, I probably would have just gone home at the first sign of rain. Even though I knew the track was wet, I stayed on the racing line. What a knucklehead. Everybody knows that’s the worst place to be when it starts raining, right? Duh!
My car was setup very balanced on dry pavement. I ran a square setup, 275/35/18 pilot SS all around, lowered an inch on ‘Strano’ springs, and had the Torsen diff fitted. My years on bikes mean I tend to get on the gas very early, so I tend to slide exiting corners. I loved the way the car felt when I was power-sliding, but I sure wish the inside rear had lit up that day! Maybe a little more understeer is ok, right?
My car was afflicted with the dreaded 2011 GT steering wobble, and I had completely disconnected the stability control while trying to diagnose it. It still wobbled with the systems disconnected, but even so I didn’t reconnect. The car was a blast to drive like that all summer, however I had seen no rain (!) until that fateful day. I had installed the racing steering rack two events earlier which solved the problem, but I loved the way the car felt with all the “nannies” off so, again, I chose not to reconnect. What a moron. Dumbest. Move. Ever!
Lessons learned:
1. Stability control is good.
2. Rain is bad.
It had just started to rain. I swear I was at my normal pace 2 corners earlier, but there was some rain on the windscreen and the track started to look wet so I had slowed down for the previous two corners. When the crash happened, the rear came around very gently and I noticed too late, turned into the skid too slowly, and finally realized the car was gone. I hit the brakes hard hoping to spin on the tarmac and miss the wall, but I was too late for that too and was heading backwards straight for the wall. Hard hit to the driver’s rear, airbags pop, banged my head against the side glass, and ripped the driver’s front wheel right off! I loved that car.
That was my 10th track day this year, and probably around the 30th in the mustang. I’ve done maybe 100 car track days in various cars (10/yr for about the last 10 yrs), and I won a couple of local amateur bike racing championships back when I was young and fast. I’m not a newb, but I sure made some newbie mistakes.
I had a great day up until the crash. I was going fast, in control, and probably running with cars I shouldn’t have. Needless to say, I was brimming with confidence, and barely concerned about running a 410 RWHp car with no stability control in the occasional light rain. If I’d had a crap day, I probably would have just gone home at the first sign of rain. Even though I knew the track was wet, I stayed on the racing line. What a knucklehead. Everybody knows that’s the worst place to be when it starts raining, right? Duh!
My car was setup very balanced on dry pavement. I ran a square setup, 275/35/18 pilot SS all around, lowered an inch on ‘Strano’ springs, and had the Torsen diff fitted. My years on bikes mean I tend to get on the gas very early, so I tend to slide exiting corners. I loved the way the car felt when I was power-sliding, but I sure wish the inside rear had lit up that day! Maybe a little more understeer is ok, right?
My car was afflicted with the dreaded 2011 GT steering wobble, and I had completely disconnected the stability control while trying to diagnose it. It still wobbled with the systems disconnected, but even so I didn’t reconnect. The car was a blast to drive like that all summer, however I had seen no rain (!) until that fateful day. I had installed the racing steering rack two events earlier which solved the problem, but I loved the way the car felt with all the “nannies” off so, again, I chose not to reconnect. What a moron. Dumbest. Move. Ever!
Lessons learned:
1. Stability control is good.
2. Rain is bad.
1) You were not an idiot as this happened on a track (where crashes are sometimes expected).
2) You were smart enough to take it to a track for driving like this. When I first started to read I thought (first paragraph) you were on the street (that would've been stupid).
3) Many people once they have gained a lot of experience will turn off the nannies because they can drive faster than with the nannies. How much is a lot of experience? Depends on the person.
4) Only advice or comment I have is that I would not have made my first day with the nannies all off a rainy day. Rain can make things very unpredictable and when you're pushing the limits of a car for the first time without the nannies, you can be over confident or uncertain. Both will get you. That was your mistake.
01-02-2014, 11:58 AM
#9
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 178
Very sorry to hear it. As others have said, it's done, so learn from it and look forward to the future and how you might do things differently. I've always had a little hesitation in the back of my mind with tracking newer, relatively valuable cars, and of course this is why. If I could, I'd have a dedicated $10k track beater and save the new Mustang for everything else. Not always possible though, so we do what we do.
Of note, as you discovered, rain can be tricky. I was at MAM (road course) in my 2010 and it started to sprinkle, but all felt good so I kept hammering away. Also at MAM, there are very few places to hit anything, so going off track in most corners generally means a bump in the pride, some grass in the undercarriage, and not much else. Anyway, I always ran one session with TCS off and DSC on just to make sure all was well, and then shut it all down for the rest of the day. This was late in the day, so all nannies off. Hit a chicane that I typically trail-brake pretty hard into to get the car rotated, and instead of the usual subtle drift it came around in a hurry. Totally unexpected. Backed it straight off the track. Had a good chuckle and that was that. But it did make me recalibrate a bit for rain going forward. Generally to just avoid it when tracking a car like a Mustang, but also that it can sneak up on you pretty abruptly, and that a Mustang can spin just as easily off the throttle as it can on the throttle.
Best of luck going forward, and I hope to see you posting more about your more positive track exploits in the future.
Of note, as you discovered, rain can be tricky. I was at MAM (road course) in my 2010 and it started to sprinkle, but all felt good so I kept hammering away. Also at MAM, there are very few places to hit anything, so going off track in most corners generally means a bump in the pride, some grass in the undercarriage, and not much else. Anyway, I always ran one session with TCS off and DSC on just to make sure all was well, and then shut it all down for the rest of the day. This was late in the day, so all nannies off. Hit a chicane that I typically trail-brake pretty hard into to get the car rotated, and instead of the usual subtle drift it came around in a hurry. Totally unexpected. Backed it straight off the track. Had a good chuckle and that was that. But it did make me recalibrate a bit for rain going forward. Generally to just avoid it when tracking a car like a Mustang, but also that it can sneak up on you pretty abruptly, and that a Mustang can spin just as easily off the throttle as it can on the throttle.
Best of luck going forward, and I hope to see you posting more about your more positive track exploits in the future.
01-02-2014, 12:30 PM
#10
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: OH
Posts: 48
Oooops!
Lots of things look different with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. You were on a track, not a highway, you go there to push the limits, you pushed a might too hard this once .... can't unwind the clock.
Look forward, not back. The knowledge gained will help you down the road.
Lots of things look different with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. You were on a track, not a highway, you go there to push the limits, you pushed a might too hard this once .... can't unwind the clock.
Look forward, not back. The knowledge gained will help you down the road.