best suspension upgrades to decrease body roll?
12-14-2014, 09:52 AM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 184
best suspension upgrades to decrease body roll?
When I stop at a stoplight theres a lot of forward and backward body roll, and going around corners is a lot of body roll too.
I may want to lower a small bit in the future too, so i might include that in this suspension upgrade if its worth it. I'm on a '14 v6 with stock tires (for now).
So what are the best suspension upgrades going to be to reduce body roll all around? and what is needed to lower the car 1-2 inches? This is a street DD only no track use.
I may want to lower a small bit in the future too, so i might include that in this suspension upgrade if its worth it. I'm on a '14 v6 with stock tires (for now).
So what are the best suspension upgrades going to be to reduce body roll all around? and what is needed to lower the car 1-2 inches? This is a street DD only no track use.
12-14-2014, 06:20 PM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 874
My first inclination is to recommend shocks and struts, such as Koni Str.ts (also known as Oranges). As far as lowering, you can get by with just the springs and shocks/struts, though later on you may want to consider an adjustable panhard bar or Watts Link (I would recommend the watts link over the panhard, the extra cost is worth it).
12-16-2014, 05:58 AM
#4
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
The mechanical things you do to reduce roll and pitch are all pretty straightforward. "Pitch" is the correct term for "forward and backward body roll", although "nose dive under braking" is sufficiently descriptive for your observations here.
Mechanically, springs reduce how far both roll and pitch motions go during any given maneuver, sta-bars ("sway bars") reduce roll only, and firmer shocks and struts tend to reduce how fast those motions happen (and to some extent how much you notice them). Unless you go pretty extreme with spring rates and sta-bar diameters, most of the available products will make the car end up at similar amounts of roll and pitch, close enough that you might not notice any difference at all in your driving. (Edit - but you should notice differences between most of them and base V6 OE)
The way you drive also affects roll and pitch, and the smoother you can make your steering and braking inputs the less noticeable roll and pitch motions become. Needless to say, jerking the steering wheel over and stomping on the brake pedal aren't smooth control inputs; try to make those control inputs more gradual (this does not necessarily mean slow). Easing up on the brake pedal as you're finally coming through that last mph or two to a full stop will eliminate nearly all of that back and forth pitch motion that happens when all that forward "weight transfer" suddenly goes away and the car springs back to its normal more level position.
Norm
Mechanically, springs reduce how far both roll and pitch motions go during any given maneuver, sta-bars ("sway bars") reduce roll only, and firmer shocks and struts tend to reduce how fast those motions happen (and to some extent how much you notice them). Unless you go pretty extreme with spring rates and sta-bar diameters, most of the available products will make the car end up at similar amounts of roll and pitch, close enough that you might not notice any difference at all in your driving. (Edit - but you should notice differences between most of them and base V6 OE)
The way you drive also affects roll and pitch, and the smoother you can make your steering and braking inputs the less noticeable roll and pitch motions become. Needless to say, jerking the steering wheel over and stomping on the brake pedal aren't smooth control inputs; try to make those control inputs more gradual (this does not necessarily mean slow). Easing up on the brake pedal as you're finally coming through that last mph or two to a full stop will eliminate nearly all of that back and forth pitch motion that happens when all that forward "weight transfer" suddenly goes away and the car springs back to its normal more level position.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 12-16-2014 at 07:11 AM. Reason: edit in red
12-16-2014, 12:37 PM
#5
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 184
The mechanical things you do to reduce roll and pitch are all pretty straightforward. "Pitch" is the correct term for "forward and backward body roll", although "nose dive under braking" is sufficiently descriptive for your observations here.
Mechanically, springs reduce how far both roll and pitch motions go during any given maneuver, sta-bars ("sway bars") reduce roll only, and firmer shocks and struts tend to reduce how fast those motions happen (and to some extent how much you notice them). Unless you go pretty extreme with spring rates and sta-bar diameters, most of the available products will make the car end up at similar amounts of roll and pitch, close enough that you might not notice any difference at all in your driving. (Edit - but you should notice differences between most of them and base V6 OE)
The way you drive also affects roll and pitch, and the smoother you can make your steering and braking inputs the less noticeable roll and pitch motions become. Needless to say, jerking the steering wheel over and stomping on the brake pedal aren't smooth control inputs; try to make those control inputs more gradual (this does not necessarily mean slow). Easing up on the brake pedal as you're finally coming through that last mph or two to a full stop will eliminate nearly all of that back and forth pitch motion that happens when all that forward "weight transfer" suddenly goes away and the car springs back to its normal more level position.
Norm
Mechanically, springs reduce how far both roll and pitch motions go during any given maneuver, sta-bars ("sway bars") reduce roll only, and firmer shocks and struts tend to reduce how fast those motions happen (and to some extent how much you notice them). Unless you go pretty extreme with spring rates and sta-bar diameters, most of the available products will make the car end up at similar amounts of roll and pitch, close enough that you might not notice any difference at all in your driving. (Edit - but you should notice differences between most of them and base V6 OE)
The way you drive also affects roll and pitch, and the smoother you can make your steering and braking inputs the less noticeable roll and pitch motions become. Needless to say, jerking the steering wheel over and stomping on the brake pedal aren't smooth control inputs; try to make those control inputs more gradual (this does not necessarily mean slow). Easing up on the brake pedal as you're finally coming through that last mph or two to a full stop will eliminate nearly all of that back and forth pitch motion that happens when all that forward "weight transfer" suddenly goes away and the car springs back to its normal more level position.
Norm
Are you suggesting that most aftermarket solutions wont make much of a difference over stock OR that most aftermarket solutions are similar and I can't go wrong with any specific setup?
12-16-2014, 05:21 PM
#6
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
I'm suggesting that most aftermarket solutions are more similar to each other than to OE. A few that use the softer lowering springs will be a little closer to OE, and those with stiffer lowering springs further away. The available table of spring rates suggests that aftermarket springs tend to fall within about 15% one way or the other from some median value, and since it takes something like a 10% change for most people to notice . . . .
Somewhat bigger differences may come from using the thicker aftermarket sta-bars and in the stiffer settings of adjustable sta-bars, where you'll get a relatively greater reduction in roll than you get with stiffening up the various springs.
Norm
Somewhat bigger differences may come from using the thicker aftermarket sta-bars and in the stiffer settings of adjustable sta-bars, where you'll get a relatively greater reduction in roll than you get with stiffening up the various springs.
Norm
12-17-2014, 09:00 PM
#7
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 66
Norm, all true except I would differ on the amount of change replacing the stock dampers. My stock GT Track Pack was not fun. When accelerating hard the entire front of the car would lift up and my wife wondered if the wheels were still on the ground. And the nose dive on hard braking was absurd. I also had terrible axle hop on hard acceleration. The GT is supposed to be a sports cars and changing the dampers goes a long way in my experience.
Switching to better shocks and stiffer springs eliminated the axle hop and improved greatly the other issues for me. The stock GT can indeed be driven quickly but just not as confidently or enjoyably as with better dampers.
Randy Pobst commented in an article comparing an M3 to the GT
-"The car stands on its nose when you go to brake," says Randy, "And there's a fair amount of squat, so you feel a lot of pitch. It doesn't seem to be hurting the cars braking or entry that much, but it's disconcerting."
-says Randy, who suspects a damper issue. "The shocks can handle the car up to 60 to 70 mph. At 80, 90, 100 mph, we have a really challenging set of curving bumps and braking zones for which the shocks are overmatched."
-"I think the BMW is faster because of its superior shock control at high speed," he says. "It has very little nose dive, very little brake dive, which gives me more confidence as a driver. It's more refined, a more conservative car than the Mustang is and far better controlled."
The article is here http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
Switching to better shocks and stiffer springs eliminated the axle hop and improved greatly the other issues for me. The stock GT can indeed be driven quickly but just not as confidently or enjoyably as with better dampers.
Randy Pobst commented in an article comparing an M3 to the GT
-"The car stands on its nose when you go to brake," says Randy, "And there's a fair amount of squat, so you feel a lot of pitch. It doesn't seem to be hurting the cars braking or entry that much, but it's disconcerting."
-says Randy, who suspects a damper issue. "The shocks can handle the car up to 60 to 70 mph. At 80, 90, 100 mph, we have a really challenging set of curving bumps and braking zones for which the shocks are overmatched."
-"I think the BMW is faster because of its superior shock control at high speed," he says. "It has very little nose dive, very little brake dive, which gives me more confidence as a driver. It's more refined, a more conservative car than the Mustang is and far better controlled."
The article is here http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
Last edited by todcp; 12-17-2014 at 09:03 PM. Reason: added link to article
12-18-2014, 09:20 AM
#8
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Yes, the difference from OE to good aftermarket dampers is significant . . . though I suspect that the differences going from OE to any of them is also going to be greater than if you were to swap back and forth among those same aftermarket shocks. Adjustability adds a whole new dimension that non-adjustable OE dampers cannot hope to match, and up-level coilovers are yet another step beyond that.
FWIW, it's the nose dive under hard braking that should drive the decision to swap springs, and let whatever reductions in squat and roll that come with that be pleasant side-effects. At least in a daily-driver or true dual-purpose street/track-day or street/autocross car. I'm totally ignoring matters of appearance here . . . personally I'd rather have a mild spring stiffness increase (maybe something like 50% or a little more) accompanied by lowering of no more than about half an inch.
Norm
FWIW, it's the nose dive under hard braking that should drive the decision to swap springs, and let whatever reductions in squat and roll that come with that be pleasant side-effects. At least in a daily-driver or true dual-purpose street/track-day or street/autocross car. I'm totally ignoring matters of appearance here . . . personally I'd rather have a mild spring stiffness increase (maybe something like 50% or a little more) accompanied by lowering of no more than about half an inch.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 12-18-2014 at 09:31 AM.
12-18-2014, 10:26 AM
#9
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 184
Alright guys, so I'm planning to pick this up:
http://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach...stem-1112.html
as well as an adjustable panhard bar and some camber/caster plates (not bolts).
I'm curious if I need rear LCAs/UCAs with this? I don't want the axle to be at the wrong angle or anything funky.
Any other things I NEED to do just that modification kit above?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach...stem-1112.html
as well as an adjustable panhard bar and some camber/caster plates (not bolts).
I'm curious if I need rear LCAs/UCAs with this? I don't want the axle to be at the wrong angle or anything funky.
Any other things I NEED to do just that modification kit above?
