Lowering your 05/06 Mustang GT

[F1Fan]

Hi Ali, Are you running the 19"x9" BC-10 wheels with some sort of 255/40X19"'s? What brand and model tires are you running if I may ask. The wheel size matters not, what matters for the purpose of the wheel well gaps is tire height. The S197 GT's were all delivered with 27" tall tires on 17" or 18" wheels. The correct size tire for a 19"x9" wheel would be 255/40X19", at approximately 27" tall. So using this as your guideline if you like the look of S197's in your area with stock height wheels and tires lowered with Eibach Pro-Kit sport springs, H&R Cup Kit or H&R's catalog "race" springs these are the right springs for you. The Eibach Pro-Kit springs typically will lower S197 GT's about 1.3"-1.5" up front and about 1.5"-1.8" in back depending on how well equiped the car is and coupe or vert body styles. My personal car is a loaded S197 GT Premium Coupe 5-speed but without the Skipper 1000 (thankfully!), my car dropped approximately 1.5" in front and 1.7" at the rear when I installed Eibach Pro-Kit springs. I live in SoCal and we have pretty good roads here and I think that this is as low as I would take the car. Even with great care I will still sometimes drag on certain driveways and ramps no matter what I do. This is as low as is practical IMO and for snow belt state cars I'd consider taller sport springs if I had to drive the car four seasons. People here in SoCal I know with Eibach Sport-Line springs drag and scrape all over the place, I don't know how they can live with a car this low. IMO this is bad for the car not to mention what this excessive lowering does to the suspension geometry and handling traits. Eibach Sport-Line springs are very, very low, too low! I've measured 1.5"-1.8" in front and typically 2.0"-2.1" at the rear of the car. The H&R Super Sport spring set is also very low and about the same amount of dump. Eibach and H&R also make adjustable ride height coil over kits with decent (but NOT adjustable!), dampening. These kits give you some level of tunability for track use but no way to adjust the more important item, dampening rates! Anyway these springs are just way too low for anything other than show cars. Even race cars are not lowered going to be lowered more than the Pro-Kit sport spring due to the radical suspenion geometry changes and the loss of grip and handling this causes. Additionally the suspension geometry is way too far out of wack to handle well and it takes a LOT to correct the geometry enough to make the car handle and grip well. Comfort is controlled for the most part by the relationship between the spring rates and dampening rates. You can drive on the street with really soft springs and stiff strut and damper rates with a terrible ride and poor handling. You can also drive on the street with very stiff spring rates and moderatel soft dampening rates and have a pretty good ride while still retaining excellent body and roll control. This is what you want to shoot for but to get it you need to install adjustable dampers front and rear. So for your application most of the popular sport springs will work well with your Tokico D-Spec adjustable struts and dampers. Just pick the spring that you like the ride height of and away you go. One last thing. With your wider 19" wheels and tires you will NEED to buy and install an adjustable Panhard bar to re-center the rear axle or the car will handle differntly when tuning left vs. turning right. Th wheels may also rub on the left side of the car if you don't install an ajustable Panhard bar once you get the car lowerd. I hope this helps you somehow! Cheers ORIGINAL: mustangali F1FAN, Thank you for the reply. My 05' GT is a convertible and I already have 19" Weld Evo's on the car. I am a young lady, and I do not want to make the car too abusive, but with the 19's the wheel well openings are way too big! I already have the Tokico D Specs waiting, I just need to know which springs will give me the proper look without a big comfort issue. Just so everyone does not think I am a "sissy", I already have a 2002 Rousch prepared Mustang GT that I use for road racing only. I run the car with my father and brother in the Northeast Iron series. If anyone can tell me how to size pictures down to the 20kb max, I will post pics of both cars. Thank you, Ali

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[mustangali]

F1FAN,

I have WELD EVO PENZA 5 SL forged rims 19" x 9.5", with TOYO PROXES T1R's 255/40-19. They are only 0.2" shorter than the stock Pirelli's, but with the taller rims it gives the illusion of a shorter tire, and seems to make the wheel wheel gaps look bigger. I guess I will go with the Eibach's as I know they make a high quality product, and we use Eibach's on the race car.

Which panhard bar and brace do you like, the Steeda or the BMR?

Thanks again,

Ali

[mustangali]

Here are some pics of my 05' GT, and our 02' GT Racer!

[IMG]local://upfiles/33989/9924CC282A0C4F4A982F16696ADEF4B2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/33989/18642001E5F640CEB407CEA451C95BC9.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/33989/6E211F2119E1435191E3C5F006D590A1.jpg[/IMG]

[mofo T]

Hello,
I recently bought a 06' GT Mustang and want to make some modifications to it. I want to lower it for starters. I've been reading up on this forum (which by the way has A LOT of great advice) and I think I have an idea of what I will be doing. I just want to make sure that I'm not missing anything or doing something that I don't need to be doing. I must admit that I know absolutely nothing about lowering my car. I know....I should have my "Man" card revoked, but if anybody can make suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

Here is what I plan on doing so far:
1) Eibach Pro Kit Springs
2) Going to run on stock shocks (can't afford the Tokico-D spec struts right now)
3) camber bolt kit
4) Steeda Panhard bar (Do I really even need this??)

and that's it so far.

Do I need to get a Steeda heavy duty panhard bar brace??? What about sway bars?? Also does anybody know if doing any of this kind of work voids the warranty on the car???
Thanks in advance for all your help,
-T

[F1Fan]

Hi mofo T,

Pro-Kits are a fine choice for areas with good roads and no snow, they might be a bit low for the snow belters. If you cannot install the Pro-Kit springs, D-Specs and adjustable Panhard bar at the same time save your money until you can. Really, it's much cheaper, rides properly and handles much better when installing all three parts at once. If you only install the springs you will get the low sporty looks but have poor dampening control and a harsh ride on the stock struts and rear dampers because they are not valved right to work well with the both stiffer and yet softer spring rate of the progressive Pro-Kit springs. As to the camber bolts you probably will want them if you want your tires to last as long as possible.

The adjustable Panhard bar gives you much more than just recentering the rear axle. It also massivly improves your car's handling feel because the axle is now in the middle of the chassis and the car won't prefer turning one way more than the other as it will if the axle is not recentered well after lowering. Many people don't realize that recentering the axle is not all the Panhard bar does. The Panhard bar is the only link in the S197's rear suspension that controls the axle's lateral location. This is why virtually ALL of the car's rear end feel and handling precision is dependant on the Panhard bar. Think about it, the the Panhard bar and the mounting point are all that controls the axle under cornering loads and you want the Panhard bar to be stiff as possible and the chassis side mounting point to be rigid and very stiffly connected the the chassis. This is why I recommend installing a heavier Panhard bar support brace from Steeda or BMR when installing an adjustable Panhard bar.

Try to find someone in your area who is a member of a club or Mustang group who will let you drive their car with these mods if you don't believe me. You have NO IDEA how good the Mustang can be for a relatively small amount of money.


Cheers

ORIGINAL: mofo T

Hello,
I recently bought a 06' GT Mustang and want to make some modifications to it. I want to lower it for starters. I've been reading up on this forum (which by the way has A LOT of great advice) and I think I have an idea of what I will be doing. I just want to make sure that I'm not missing anything or doing something that I don't need to be doing. I must admit that I know absolutely nothing about lowering my car. I know....I should have my "Man" card revoked, but if anybody can make suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

Here is what I plan on doing so far:
1) Eibach Pro Kit Springs
2) Going to run on stock shocks (can't afford the Tokico-D spec struts right now)
3) camber bolt kit
4) Steeda Panhard bar (Do I really even need this??)

and that's it so far.

Do I need to get a Steeda heavy duty panhard bar brace??? What about sway bars?? Also does anybody know if doing any of this kind of work voids the warranty on the car???
Thanks in advance for all your help,
-T

[sptlckr]

F1,

You are amazing. Thanks for making this a great place to get info.

I have a GT Convertible. Do I need "special" rate springs? I am planning on going with a setup like your Stage 1 type of thing. Are Eibach pro's the same for the coupe and 'vert?

Also, I'm not an expert but I am pretty handy. Would installing these parts be something that I could do myself or are there special tools required to get it done? I'd get a shop to align it for me.

And...last thing for now. Do Subframe connectors help at all?

Thanks!

[F1Fan]

Hi sptlckr,

Thanks for the nice words, just trying to contribute what I know hoping to do my part here.

Ah, a vert., well the factory thinks you do but I don't think it's an issuse really. The springs are the same mechanically but a slightly softer rate from the factory. If you go with a progressive spring such as Eibach's street springs you'll have no problem and indeed Eibach's application guide shows the same part numbers for the coupe and vert. with a given motor.

You can install all of the parts I mentioned in the first stage with common hand tools and a spring compressor for strut coil springs. BTW, the spring compressor that Sears sells works fine or you can borrow a spring compressor from your local AutoZone or CSK autoparts store for free(?). The only hard part is removing the strut bearings from the original struts without an air gun. It can be done by hand but it takes some effort and an extra set of hands or a bench vise. I have shop air in my garage and maybe you have a neighbor or buddy who does too. If not just go down to the local gas station and ask them to gun them off, it's only one bolt per strut.

On my '05 S197 GT coupe after measuring the strut towers trying to find any movement I can tell you there is not enough movement to measure when driving very hard in high G-canyon and high speed high-G freeway connector ramps with all of the parts in the second stage parts grouping. On a vert I would say that good subframe connectors and strut tie bars may be helpfull but I have not done any measurements on a vert so I don't know for a fact if strut tie bars and subframe connectors can improve a vert's chassis flex levels or not. But seeing that it's a vert and the fact that verts are missing the top half of the chassis I suspect that if good welded in subframe connectors are used you would see and feel any advantage on your vert pretty clearly when cornering hard with a performance suspension installed. You would need something like BMR's welded-in boxed subframe connectors, BMR's tunnel connector, BMR or Steeada upper strut tie bar and Steeda's rear shock tie bar. The heavy duty boxed BMR subframe connectors are the best design I've seen short of custom fabricating and then hand fitting and seam welding in a similar design I doubt there is any more stiffness to be found in a subframe conector design without building a cage inside the car. I'm not sure how effective Steeda's shock tie bar is because it is not triangulated and lacks a vertical element tying the brace fore and aft. I think there is room for improvement both front and back in terms of strut tie bars and shock tower braces looking at the current production designs. But to install better more effective braces they would necessaily be larger, more intrusive and harder to install and their potential for handling improvement is fairly small on the coupe which is the largest segment of performance oriented Mustang buyers. IMO BMR's subframe connectors offer more potential handling improvement than installing strut and rear shock tower braces especially on a vert.

Hope this helps and doesn't add to your general confusion!


Cheers

ORIGINAL: sptlckr

F1,

You are amazing. Thanks for making this a great place to get info.

I have a GT Convertible. Do I need "special" rate springs? I am planning on going with a setup like your Stage 1 type of thing. Are Eibach pro's the same for the coupe and 'vert?

Also, I'm not an expert but I am pretty handy. Would installing these parts be something that I could do myself or are there special tools required to get it done? I'd get a shop to align it for me.

And...last thing for now. Do Subframe connectors help at all?

Thanks!

[mofo T]

Now I'm a little confused, I don't know if the Eibach Pro-Kit springs are going to be low enough to acheve the look I'm looking for. And now I have a friend who used to work at a garage and swears by H&R springs and I don't know if I should go with the H&R Race Spring set which lowers 1.5 F and 1.4 R or if I should go with the H&R Super Sport Spring Set which lowers 1.8 F and 1.9 R or if I should stick with the Eibach Pro Kit 1.3 F and 1.4 R or go with the Eibach Sportline spring kit 1.6F and 2.0 R. I live in the Los Angeles area and the roads are pretty smooth in the area that I live. I don't want to lower my car so much that it's scraping but I can't stand that gap in between the wheels and the wheel well. I plan on puting Borla cat back exhaust on my car also eventually and I don't want to worrie about scraping my exhaust also. Any opinions would be GREATLY appreciated.

[F1Fan]

Hi mofoT,

How are you confused? How low do yo want to go? Low enough to scrape your way through your daily drive?

H&R makes excellent quality springs and they are also T.U.V. approved just as Eibach's springs are. I'll let you in on a well known industry secret, H&R waits until Eibach release their springs for an application and then copies Eibach's design. We know this because we've tested Eibach's springs and then shortly H&R releases their springs for the same application and when we tested the H&R spring for he same application. Identical spring and rates were found to be the rule for the most popular high volume applications. This may not still be the case as it was a few years ago that we notice this but the trend appears to be continue.

As to which H&R spring you should buy this is a decision you should consider carefully. Looks are not everything even in L.A. where all the bimbos are made of plastic and silicone. The sport springs you buy and install will determine the capabilities of your car and the amount of suspension geometry changes. On the S197 chassis it is IMO very important to not lower the rear of the car by more than 1.5-1.7 inches if you hope to have a good handling car. Sure you can go lower but you will then have severly limited suspension travel and really poor suspenion geometry to deal with. Even if you only lower the rear end 1.5 inches I still recommend an adjustable Panhard bar and the heavy duty Panhard bar brace along with BMR's weld-in LCA relocation brackets to correct the lack of rear traction on launch that you caused by altering the IC (instant center), after lowering the car. To get the car to work in the corners again will require spending a lot of money to correct something that was 100% preventable in the first place. At the front of the car you should go no lower than 1.3-1.5 inches because you will have altered the roll center in the wrong direction and messed up the handling even more than at the rear. Even for cars with 1.3-1.5 inch drops you can only partialy corrrect the problem using Steeda's control arm relocation kit. I recommend H&R springs but I suggest that you not go any lower if you want a good handling car that does not scrape through every drive way you cross.


Cheers

ORIGINAL: mofo T

Now I'm a little confused, I don't know if the Eibach Pro-Kit springs are going to be low enough to acheve the look I'm looking for. And now I have a friend who used to work at a garage and swears by H&R springs and I don't know if I should go with the H&R Race Spring set which lowers 1.5 F and 1.4 R or if I should go with the H&R Super Sport Spring Set which lowers 1.8 F and 1.9 R or if I should stick with the Eibach Pro Kit 1.3 F and 1.4 R or go with the Eibach Sportline spring kit 1.6F and 2.0 R. I live in the Los Angeles area and the roads are pretty smooth in the area that I live. I don't want to lower my car so much that it's scraping but I can't stand that gap in between the wheels and the wheel well. I plan on puting Borla cat back exhaust on my car also eventually and I don't want to worrie about scraping my exhaust also. Any opinions would be GREATLY appreciated.

[mofo T]

Sorry, when I said I was confused I meant I don't know which brand of springs I should go with the H&Rs or the Eibach's. Basically I was looking to see if people out there prefer one over the other and why. So you would suggest getting the H&R Race Spring set which lowers 1.5 F and 1.4 R over the Eibach Pro-Kit which lowers 1.3 F and 1.4 R? I just want to make sure I'm not scraping the bottom of my car as this is the 1st car I've ever bought Brand New and I want to take care of it as best I can. I am a complete amature when it comes to this stuff and know virtually nothing about modifying cars. I want to make sure the car still handles well yet doesn't scrape every time I go over a speed bump or into a drive way and still gets rid of most of the gap between the wheel and the wheel well. So along with the springs I should also get an adjustable Panhard bar and the heavy duty Panhard bar brace along with BMR's weld-in LCA relocation brackets? Do I also need to buy camber bolts? And I should also get Steeda's control arm relocation kit? Thanks for all your help and information, it's very much appreciated.