Centurion96

I want to just lower the rears so my ride doesn't look like a TR-8, so does anyone sell just the rear ultra lites or for that matter any of the lesser extreme drop springs? At minimum it looks like I'll also need a set of adjustable LCAs and adjustable pan hard rod. I just want the rocker panel to be parallel to the ground.

wingman75

You can purchase the rear only springs from Roush or their dealers. I believe they are a moderate 1.5" drop. I have heard many say they did not need the Panhard rod for recentering. Just what I've heard.

daz72

I've read all the way through this thread - good stuff, very helpful. I have an '05 GT convertible, running 20" TSW rims (they came on the car, but I actually like them a lot).
I've ordered Tokico d-specs, and camber bolts. Just debating which springs to get. Eibach pro-kit seems a great choice.

F1Fan, HTH or any others have you seen the Maier Racing springs by any chance? They are tuned by Mike Maier specifically for the S197 - he's been doing Mustang suspension for over 30 years and is very well respected here in the Bay Area, but I've yet to find anyone that actually has his springs on an '05+. Would love to know how they drop compared to the Eibachs...
cheers

F1Fan

Hi daz72,

I sometimes end my posts with HTH! (hope this helps!), so that's me! Did you get my message about Maier?

Cheers!

daz72

hi
HTH, nice - you learn something every day

yes, saw your post about Maier. I'll have to mention that to Mike there, see what he has to say for himself. If I understood your dates correctly, Idoubt he was even born when his dad did that work for you!
I believe Eibach actually make Maier's springs for them now, just to Maier's design specs. Mike is actually sponsored by Eibach as a racer, and works closely with them. But I'll certainly check their spring quality based on your feedback.

Today finally I saw his springs on their own Maier '05 - it looks bad-*** with their (half-finished) bodykit. I think I'll put his custom springs in my car with the Tokicos and see how I like it.

Maier Racing is having a BBQcustomer appreciation day in 2 weeks (July 22 i think), in case anyone wants to check out their work. It's at their shop in Hayward, CA.
cheers

bazguitarman

I`m gonna bump this one up to date with a suggested set up that I am looking at using. I`ve talked to F1fan and a couple others on this forum and others. Although I`m no expert, I do have a good basic knowledge of how a performance suspension should be put together. After seeking the advice of more knowledgable S197 owners I put a package together that I plan on using.

Everyone needs to take a honest look at what they are going for in suspension mods. If you just want to lower for looks it takes a little less money invested. A good set of springs with the correct dampers will lower and keep a decent street ride. An adjustable panhard bar will allow you to compensate for the rear end location after drop. That`s all you need if you want to go for looks.

If you want a handling package it looks like it will cost a "bit" more $$$. I`m a package type person, so I choose to do it all at once. That`s how I put this package together. I also like to match parts, but as F1fan has said many times. The better packages are made by cherry picking from different manufacturers catalogs.

And always the #1 thing is getting the most bang for your bucks. If two different manufacturers have a equally good part, I usually go with what`s cheaper. So you will notice that not everything is from the same manufacturer. So here is my take on a handling package for the S197 for hard core street performance. I`ve put this together with handling in mind, but also beefing up the rear end for occasional 1/4 mile runs.

****disclaimer # 1**** Please keep in mind that I have not tested this package yet. I have put this package together under the advice and guidance of some very knowledgable S197 owners, a few amatuer racers and a couple of pro chasis builders. Across the board it`s generally agreed that this package will give incredible handling in the S197 Mustang. As well as an acceptable ride for daily driving. All my experts have a slightly different take on fine tuning to their specs, but all pretty much agree that this will correct or improve most of the short comings of the stock S197 suspension.****


* Eibach Pro series springs-(stangsuspension.com, #35101.140, $224.95)- Progressive springs with aslightly lower drop than most "sport" type springs. They also have some of the firmer secondary spring rates for sport type springs. While having a softer rate in the primary compression zone, for more daily comfort.

* Tokico D-spec dampers-(stangsuspensions.com, #DSP-12, $529.95)- Their adjustability makes for better fine tuning. The damper rates are maximized for use with the higher spring rates of lowering springs. They are more expensive than non-adj., but if you want good handling you need to be able to adjust the damper rates.

* Lower control arms-(BMRfabrication.com, #TCA019, $134.95/pr.)- I chose BMR`s non-adj. tubular LCA`s as they are solid, basic units that offer higher durometer bushings for less flex and stronger than stock build. Not only will the bushings flex less, but the control arm itself is stiffer. Very important for those of you who will see some 1/4 mile action.

* Upper control arm-(BMRfabrication.com, #UTCA019, $176.95)- Again I went with BMR. At this point I actually contacted BMR for advice. I talked via email with Dennis at BMR about whether I needed to go with adj. LCA`s or UCA. He recommended that I go with the non-adj. LCA`s and an adj. UCA. This would allow me to adj. the pinion angle after lowering, but actually cost less than the adj. LCA`s. I get the adjustability I need, but at a lower cost. Props to Dennis at BMR for helping me out.

* LCA re-locate brackets-(Steeda.com, #555-8119, $129.95)- These are needed to reset the instant center of the rear suspension after lowering. Basically this controls weight transfer on launch. Allowing you to improve rear grip after lowering the car. This time I went with Steeda`s part. Because they offer more adj. points for a little finer tuning capability. These control how the car`s weight is loaded onto the rear end. With these you can force the car to plant more weight on the back tires at launch giving better traction.

* Adj. panhard bar-(Steeda.com, #555-2551, $159.95)- You need this part to properly center and locate your rear end after lowering. And going to a stronger after market part just makes sense if you want a solid rear suspension. This bar is "the" part that controls your rear end centering. A stronger part with firmer bushings is a major improvement for performance handling. I chose to go with Steeda`s part because it`s made of chrome moly tubing which is lighter and stronger than mild steel tubing.

* Panhard bar brace-(Steeda.com, #555-2555, $79.95)- Exactly what it says. It`s a secondary brace to support and strengthen that all important rear end location. I went with Steeda`s part here to match it to the panhard bar.

* Upper control arm mount-(BMRfabrication.com, #UCM001, $135.95)- Have you looked at the stock mount? It looks like it was stamped out of tin foil. Why invest in a good UCA if the mount is going to flex. Wasted money IMO. BMR has a heavy duty mount and it will only strengthen the rear suspension. And it`s inexpensive, so why not.

* Rear sway bar-(Steeda.com, #555-1056, $159.95)- Notice I`m only doing a rear sway bar. The S197 has a good amount of under steer going on with the stock parts. Like all cars the front sway bar is thicker than the rear. If you go aftermarket you will have stiffer sway bars but they will have the same set up. Thick in the front, thinner in the rear. Still going to have the understeer, but with stiffer bars. I`m going with a thicker rear sway bar as a tuning tool. To balance out some understeer without going to a super stiff suspension. I`m going with Steeda here.
Later I will probably try an adj. front sway bar, but only if I need more balance and end up putting the car on the track.

* Front control arm re-locate kit-(Steeda.com, #555-8116, $79.95)- After lowering the car your front roll center will be too low. This is the imaginary point in the suspension geometry that your side to side roll charactoristic is based on. When this point is lowered it makes the car behave as if it was raised up and feels more top heavy. You can control this with a real stiff spring rate, but who wants harshness on the street. Steeda has a simple and inexpensive kit that allows you to re-locate this point after lowering the car.

* Bumpsteer kit-(Steeda.com, #555-8106, $159.95)-Unfortunately after modifying the front roll center you will find your bumpsteer will be out. Steeda also has a bumpsteer kit that allows for a wider adjustment range. This allows adj. of the bumpsteer (toe in/out) under front suspension load.

* Camber bolts- (BMRfabrication.com, #FC001, $39.95)-Of course after lowering your car you will want to be able to reset the front camber for good tire wear. BMR sells a set of camber bolts that allow for 2 degrees of adj. And they are the cheapest part of the suspension rebuild.


* Total cost of parts- $2,012.40

This is what I would consider to be a stage one performance handling build. And not too costly if you look at the amount of improvement it will give.

**** Disclaimer # 2 **** Ok, $2K seems like a huge investment, but look at it this way. Fast driving on the street is dangerous. You are only going to drive so fast no matter how well your car handles. The new Mustang in stock form is capable of 150 mph top speed give or take. When are you going to drive faster than that? Probably never on the street. IMO, the stock suspension is the first thing that needs to be improved on these cars. Stock they are fast enough to kill you, but they don`t handle at a level that is equal to their power. Why add power first if yo

alloutt

Blah Blah Blah

rshamekh

Thanks for the great info.
i have a question. Will the non adjustable LCA's clear the Spyder Shaft? or should I go with the adjustable if I'm getting a one piece drive shaft soon?

bazguitarman

That`s why I talked to Dennis at BMR. I already knew I would be going with a one piece drive shaft and would need to be able to re-set the pinion angle. But at the same time I knew I would be lowering the car and would need the LCA brackets to re-set the instant center of the rear end. Under his advice I decided to get the non-adj. LCA`s , the LCA re-locate brackets and an adjustable UCA. The adj. UCA would allow me to re-set the pinion angle for the one piece drive shaft and the LCA re-locate brackets would allow me to use non-adj. LCA`s and still re-set the instant center after lowering.

For someone who is going to replace both UCA and LCA`s this turned out to be the cheapest way to do it.Because the one adj. UCA cost less than the two adj. LCA`s would have. The only added cost was the LCA re-locate brackets which are needed after using lowering springs. They also allow you to adjust the weight transfer onto the back tires for a more efficiant launch.

Eric

F1Fan

Here is a repost of something I wrote for a person who could not lower his car but wanted a high-performance handling suspension. This piece has updated information about new parts mostly available at this time 10/08/07.
[/b]
Comments on current S197 chassis/suspension components for a daily driver without lowering.

Of course, it is possible to find better handling without lowering your S197 Mustang but you can find more grip and better handlingeasier and with less work by lowering the car's CG all thing being equal. The reason is that the lower the car's CG themore stable the car will be giving you less brake dive, less rear squat and less body roll all of which are good things for handling stability, predictability, cornering and brake grip.

Sure, you can overcome the problemof weight transfer with bigger anti-roll bars and stiffer springs but you need less of each if your CG is lower to begin with to achieve the same performance.A lower anti-roll bar rate means a better ride as do the lower spring rates, lower damper compression, and rebound rates. Of course there are trade offs to be made and given the suspension we have on the S197 chassis the price of lowering the car with lower ride height springs is that the suspension geometry gets messed up in the process just enough to hurt the handling, steering and launch traction. Therefore, if you lower the carsignificantly you may also find a need to do some correction or tuning of the suspension's geometry. Some folks who do notreally drive their cars even moderately hard will not notice the changes caused by the inadvertentalterations made to the suspension geometryand others like me are driven crazy by these losses. YMMV.

The list of goodies pcfrisch has listed looks an awfullot like something I wrote to a million people privately and in my posts all over the internet. This is IMO a good list of suspension modifications to apply to yourcar to help achieve your handling and cornering goals. However,enough things have changed over time and some parts appear to have been inadvertently left off the list so the list does not reflect the current state of the art for bolt-on S197 chassis mods with ahandling focusavailable. So here I am with a redo pass of the shopping list for a car that is not going to be lowered with Sport springs.

Suspension Component Materials

A few words about weight and fasteners and then to the list and the thinking behind the items I’ve placed on it. Weight is the enemy; anything you can do to reduce both sprung and unsprung weight will pay you back in spades. This payback is in terms of grip, handling, steering response and ride quality.Higher series alloy steelsare generally stronger and stifferby weight than lower series mild steels and allowmaking lighter parts with strength equal to or greater thana heavier plain steel part. Do not be fooled, 4xxx series chrome-moly alloysteel plates and seamless tubes make better suspension parts thanthe plain mild 1xxx series steel used in DOM tubesfor suspension parts. Higher series alloy steels can cost quite a bit more by weightbecause they are harder to make andmild steels are, not surprisingly cheaper! So guess what, parts made fromchrome-moly alloy steels cost more than parts made from weaker and cheaper mild steel. Do your homework and ask the vendor or manufacturewhatkind of steel or what alloy series the suspension parts you think you may be interested in are of,the answer may change your mind about that vendor.

Suspension ComponentFasteners

All this replacement of parts is all well and good but none of it will help you much if your rear axle falls off or a strut bolt slips and your alignment goes away. Beg, borrow or steal a Ford Factory manual on DVD and print out all the suspension pages showing torque values and take particular note of the repeated warnings that you MUST discard certain fasteners when they are removed! This is important as the S197 chassis uses a bunch of bolts that are single use only and are (amazing to me when I read about it in the Ford Factory Shop Manuals), worn out and unsafe. Buy a good 1/2" click type torque wrench or at least a decent 1/2" beam type torque wrench that can readup to 175ft/lb. so you KNOW absolutely that you did the jobsafely and correctly.If you are interested in more information about the amazing world of fasteners, how they work, what they do andhow they should be used correctly there is an excellent book written by Carroll Smith called"Nuts, Bolts,Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook."

A brief word of warning, if you decide to reuse theseO.E.one-time-use fasteners be sure that you achive the FULL Ford specified torque on the fasteners. If the fasteners cannot achive the full factory specified torque value within 90 degrees of sweep after being torqued to 90% of the specified torque value remove and discard these fasteners asthey areworn out and subject to imminent failure!

CONTINUED...