Lowering your 05/06 Mustang GT

[F1Fan]

Hi bingo, I've driven a fully equipped FRPP "handling pack" car and the ride was a little harsh but the spring and bar rates were very good. The FRPP kit while of excellent quality is largely made up of Eibach's Pro-Kit springs and anti-roll bars with Multi-Matic tuned struts and dampers. The FRPP kit is not really any cheaper than buying the best suspension parts separately through the internet and the MM spec'd dampers are a little too stiff for the kit spring rates and are not adjustable (hmmm, these are the same issues as stock!). You will get a much better suspension by making up your own "kit" cherry picking the best suspension components. Here are my staged suggestions for a road course, NOT drag oriented suspension: Stage One High performance street, better than 98% of drivers out there even on stock 17"x8" wheels and stock Pirelli PZero Nero A/S tires. This is a much better core suspension than the FRPP "handling pack" kit and offers much better ride and performance through the Tokico adjustable struts and rear dampers. The adjustable rear Panhard bar, HD PB brace and G-Trac (front lower control arm tie bar), are also key elements supporting the improved spring and damper rates. At this level anti-roll bars are NOT going to help you as much as the Tokico D-Spec adjustable struts and rear dampers will. With the increased spring rate and much reduced body roll the stock tire's grip level will be fun to drive on and have a great deal of tossability and near stock ride and NVH levels. As mentioned above, very few people will be able to drive an S197 GT with this suspension installed better than the chassis can deliver and you will not have to deal with the compromised ride and noise of a car that has larger anti-roll bars and non-adjustable dampeners. The percived speed and flat cornering feel of a car with large anti-roll bars is very good until you realize how much of a compromise they are on bumpy roads and in bumpy turns. I prefer to optimize the suspension and maximize the grip of the stock tires until you reach the point where they are holding you back more than the suspension components and geometry. Anti-roll bars are a crutch for poorly setup street cars. The core suspension should be designed well enough to not need larger anti-roll bars on a street car. Eibach Pro-Kit sport springs, best progressive rate street springs on the market OR if you need to retain more ground clearance Steeda's regular catalog sport springs, good ground clearance but softer than optimum Eibach or H&R camber adjustment bolt kit, required for best tire wear Tokico D-Spec low pressure gas adjustable struts and dampers, simply the BEST production struts/dampers available Steeda adjustable Panhard bar, poly bushings both ends, improved handling and feel in both steady state and left/right transitions Steeda heavy duty Panhard bar brace, keeps your chassis from flexing and eventually failing near PB pick-up point Steeda G-Trac brace for front control arms, ties front control arms/K-member together, better feel and control arm location Alignment, use -1 to -2 degrees camber and 1/16 toe out, makes the car steer/feel right after messing up nice factory settings Stage Two Refined handling finesse with geometry corrections/optimizations, better suspension tuneability, for the last 2% of drivers. Much more refined handling levels and greater driver confidence in hard turns. Improved handling feel and better grip from the stock tires because of optimised suspension geometry. Some very slight increase in road noises though due to stiffer bushings but still a very nice ride and minimal noise increases over a fully stock S197 GT chassis. Steeda front control arm relocation kit, resolves roll height issues from lowering, increases front roll resistance Steeda control arm bushing insert kit, improved steering/handing feel, no extra NHV w/red bushing, black bushing is race only Steeda adjustable street anti-roll bar end links, allows adjustment for zero pre-load, restores correct angles Steeda anti-roll bar support braces, effectively increases anti-roll bar rate by providing better mount stability BMR weld-in lower control arm relocation brackets, adjust/corrects IC for launch grip, improves corner grip on exit on lowered cars Steeda or BMR fixed tubular LCA's w/poly bushings, eliminate wheel hop on high traction launch, much improved cornering precision Steeda or BMR adjustable UCA w/poly bushings, allows adjustment of pinion angle, eliminates wheel hop on high traction launches Stage Three True amateur competition level suspension but still streetable, quite a bit noisier and can be very harsh on rough surfaces especially if you start adding solid rod ends or heim joints to the suspension components already installed. This is great fun for autocross, track days, HPDE etc. With larger high grip tires unless you install straight rate competition springs you may at this point want to install larger anti-roll bars even though though they will not improve your car's actual grip. But if you can better balance the car's grip with an adjustable anti-roll bar up front you can potentially go faster and lower your times by utilizing more of the available grip the larger tires can generate. 18"x9" or 18"x10" light weight alloy wheels, helps suspension work better, more responsive Dry performance tires, 255/45/18 or 274/40x18, more grip, balanced handling use same size F&R unless can balance w/anti-roll bars Steeda adjustable front anti-roll bar, increased roll resistance, adjustability of anti-roll rate for handling balance and track conditions Steeda billet anti-roll bar mount, increases anti-roll bar responsiveness with better location and no bracket flex Steeda largest rear anti-roll bar w/billet ends, increased roll resistanace balances front anti-roll bar better than smaller Steeda bar Also consider adjustable solid rod ends for front anti-roll bar end-links, LCA's and Panhard bar but the noise levels will go through the roof as will handling responsiveness. Choose wisely, this may or may not be an expensive mistake for many people who drive this car daily. Hope this helps! Cheers ORIGINAL: Bingo Anyone running with the FRPP Handling Pack? Seems like the best thing to get, seeing as how it's complete and made by Ford.

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[F1Fan]

Hi mustangali,

Steeda's sport springs are softer, almost stock rate. But most of your ride is controlled by strut and rear damper rates along with bushings and isolation of suspension links to the chassis.


Cheers

ORIGINAL: mustangali

Can anyone tell me which lowering springs will provide the most comfortable ride, Eibach pro kit, or Steeda sport springs?

[Bingo]

Thanks, F1Fan...you're a plethora of information.

I'm not too concerned about ride quality, really. I've had my share of soft cars, and I don't particularly like 'em when I'm taking corners. You basically listed the parts one would need for a good street handler....thank you very much. You also noted proper calibration settings to align the suspension...would you suggest a realignment anyway, or only if the car begins to drift or if uneven tire wear is noticeable?

[. GT .]

Hi F1Fan,

Lots of good info, thanks!

Do you have a shop? Or are you a mechanic? Or do you just work on your own car?


Thanks again for all the info, keep up the good work!

[F1Fan]

Hi bingo,

You're welcome. Always willing to help a fellow car nut out! If you remove the front struts, springs or control arms you need an alignment.


Cheers

ORIGINAL: Bingo

Thanks, F1Fan...you're a plethora of information.

I'm not too concerned about ride quality, really. I've had my share of soft cars, and I don't particularly like 'em when I'm taking corners. You basically listed the parts one would need for a good street handler....thank you very much. You also noted proper calibration settings to align the suspension...would you suggest a realignment anyway, or only if the car begins to drift or if uneven tire wear is noticeable?

[F1Fan]

Hi GT,

You're welcome!

No shop, just my garage these days. I've been working on high performance German sports and race car suspensions for over 30 years. I like suspension design and development work and the S197 was the first Mustang I had to have since my '66 2+2. I wanted it for the massively improved S197 chassis and the modular 3-valve engine's potential to make horse power. The retro looks sold it to my wife. Of course I work on my own car, doesn't everyone?



Cheers

ORIGINAL: . GT .

Hi F1Fan,

Lots of good info, thanks!

Do you have a shop? Or are you a mechanic? Or do you just work on your own car?


Thanks again for all the info, keep up the good work!

[mash2k]

F1Fan:

Do you know the stock spring rates for a GT convertible? Also, what do you think of Vogtland springs? The link to them is here:

http://www.hotpart.com/index.php?p=show&id=105

[. GT .]

Thanks for the replies F1Fan,

Couple more questions please:

1.) Do the Tokico's have an external knob on both the front and rear shocks and struts to adjust them on the car so that you do not have to remove them to adjust them once they are installed?

2.) Are they adjustable for compression and rebound?

3.) Are there any other adjustable shocks and struts available for 05+ Mustangs?

4.) Do lowered cars need some sort of eccentric bolt to regain proper front end alignment after they are lowered 1 in. up front, and 1.5 in. in the rear? Or is there enough adjustment left after lowering to align them properly after being lowered 1" up front and 1.5" in the rear...if you happen to know please?

5.) If it needs modification to regain proper alignment, who sells the proper eccentric bolts to regain the proper alignment, if you happen to know?

6.) You used Eibach Pro Kit Springs, correct?

If so, how much did they lower your car, and were you able to regain proper alignment without any modifications?


7.) When you mentioned you've been working on German cars, were they your own cars, or did you work on them in some sort of professional capacity? Did you race or were you on a pit crew? Or just your own hobby? Just curious, you seem to know your stuff very well.


Many Thanks!

.

[mustangali]

F1FAN,

Thank you for the reply. My 05' GT is a convertible and I already have 19" Weld Evo's on the car. I am a young lady, and I do not want to make the car too abusive, but with the 19's the wheel well openings are way too big! I already have the Tokico D Specs waiting, I just need to know which springs will give me the proper look without a big comfort issue.

Just so everyone does not think I am a "sissy", I already have a 2002 Rousch prepared Mustang GT that I use for road racing only. I run the car with my father and brother in the Northeast Iron series. If anyone can tell me how to size pictures down to the 20kb max, I will post pics of both cars.

Thank you,

Ali

[F1Fan]

Hi GT,

#1, Yes! The adjustment is made at the top of strut or damper with a small tool Tokico supplies, takes about 2-4 minutes to do all 4 corners.

#2, D-Spec dampers have a single adjuster that alters both compression and rebound valve rates. The rate changes are not simply linear but curved, this is to say they change at different rates as damper stiffness and velocity chnages.

#3, Yes, there are custom race coil over pieces that cost 5-15 times (depending on options), what a set of D-Specs cost. The differences in performance are going to be pretty small, witha race damper it's really more about adjustability and rebuildability.

#4, The amount of adjustment varies a lot on these cars so each car may have different needs to achive the target camber spec. If using a 1" lower spring you will probably get away without a camber adjusting bolt kit, or you may not but generally you should be O.K. without camber bolts for a 1" drop.

#5, There are camber bolts available from Eibach, H&R and several internet sources. The kits usually cost $20-30 each.

#6, Yes, I installed a set of Eibach Pro-Kit sport springs along with a bunch of other stuff. I have a set of camber bolts in the garage but have not installed them because I wanted to run more negative camber than most people would want to on the street. But, having said that tire wear is going to be an issue especialy if you are going to use performance tires in which case I'd install the camber bolts. The stock 17" Pirelli PZero Nero A/S tires are less than $100 each. The best high performance dry tires are $250-$300 each in comperable 18" sizes. For the small increase in usable grip on the street offered by the larger more expensive dry performance tires that wear out much faster I'd prefer to wear out more sets of Pirelli PZero Neros running 2.5 degrees of negative camber having more fun, better steering feel and comfort from the 17" tires. I have not seen a huge loss of useable mileage from running 2-2.5 degrees negative camber but I do corner pretty hard all the time.

#7, The cars I was doing development work on were other people's race cars, street cars, show cars or VW, Porsche, Audi, BMW manufacture's cars usually for their SEMA booths. I also personally owned an raced some of the cars I worked on, mainly 911's, a 914-6 and VW's, lots of VW's, I LOVED those VW's!


Cheers

ORIGINAL: . GT .

Thanks for the replies F1Fan,

Couple more questions please:

1.) Do the Tokico's have an external knob on both the front and rear shocks and struts to adjust them on the car so that you do not have to remove them to adjust them once they are installed?

2.) Are they adjustable for compression and rebound?

3.) Are there any other adjustable shocks and struts available for 05+ Mustangs?

4.) Do lowered cars need some sort of eccentric bolt to regain proper front end alignment after they are lowered 1 in. up front, and 1.5 in. in the rear? Or is there enough adjustment left after lowering to align them properly after being lowered 1" up front and 1.5" in the rear...if you happen to know please?

5.) If it needs modification to regain proper alignment, who sells the proper eccentric bolts to regain the proper alignment, if you happen to know?

6.) You used Eibach Pro Kit Springs, correct?

If so, how much did they lower your car, and were you able to regain proper alignment without any modifications?


7.) When you mentioned you've been working on German cars, were they your own cars, or did you work on them in some sort of professional capacity? Did you race or were you on a pit crew? Or just your own hobby? Just curious, you seem to know your stuff very well.


Many Thanks!

.