Factory Roush vs. Roush Clone--Buyer Beware?
03-24-2014, 06:15 PM
#101
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South FL
Posts: 8,540
It's the same as having a Cobra level performance and putting Cobra badges on it. Is it a Cobra? No. It's not. You're trying to make it look like something it's not. Why? Because you want to look better than it really is.
The other problem I have is the flip flopping. He rants about how great it is to have a Roush, suddenly it's not one. He has claimed it is real (just read the old posts and threads), and then says he hasn't said that. He rants about how he has a Roush warrenty blah blah, but he doesn't have the warrenty he is so up in arms about b/c he voided it using the Roush CAI.
It's a lie. His car is not a Roush. End of story.
Your example of the badging on your car is not the same. You have the products with badges. You aren't trying to pass off your car as a Steeda Mustang b/c of a few Steeda parts.
I have a Steeda wing on my Roush. I don't call it a Steeda. I have a Saleen hood on my Roush. I don't call it a Saleen. I have a Cobra aluminum block and T56 in my Roush. I don't call it a Cobra.
He has a Roush blower on a GT. It's a GT.
Well I didn't actually say he is in his 90's...I said he's LIKE in his 90's. And I make this observation based on how frail looking he is in many videos of him... as you view more recent videos you can see his frailty and his health seems to be.....
Well, I'll just say , my grandfather is in his 80's and looks and acts more spry than Mr. Roush. So I can't see Jack Roush putting any Vehicle through its paces to put his personal certification on it because he track tested it himself. I can however see him putting his signature on it as sort of an autographed piece with authentication for collector appeal. Which is basically a Marketing tactic.
Well, I'll just say , my grandfather is in his 80's and looks and acts more spry than Mr. Roush. So I can't see Jack Roush putting any Vehicle through its paces to put his personal certification on it because he track tested it himself. I can however see him putting his signature on it as sort of an autographed piece with authentication for collector appeal. Which is basically a Marketing tactic.
03-24-2014, 10:38 PM
#102
LILRoush....I'll simplify this further...You have a false sense of entitlement simply because you have a certified Roush. And you come off as your **** don't stink when in fact you sound like a freakin cry baby. I can sort of understand your frustration. Yet, there are rather intelligent people out there who know that for a minimal investment they can build a Roush Spec vehicle that looks like, sounds like and even performs like a Roush. Or any other special teams vehicle. And I actually feel more respect for them for actually having the good sense to save their money and invest it back into their Vehicle to make it into whatever they want at a fraction of the cost. B's Mustang GT is going through a transformation, simply because he wants a Roush the way his vision sees his Roush as being(sound familiar)...So he's building his own replica. Its actually sharper looking than many of the certified models and I'm sure when his project is complete he'll have a better car that any Roush and for far less mooney.
He's not a poser. He's intelligent and savvy in his decision to create the car he wants. And instead of paying an old frail man who can't even track the vehicles he is certifying himself upwards of 100% more than what he can build for himself ...he's building it himself.
Yet you went out of your way to slam him as well. Simply because you felt so above him because you have a certified Roush. Here's the reality...normal people don't really care what you have.... They appreciate the story behind what they see, they enjoy the fit and finish that you present to them and If B's replica looks better...that's all they remember. There are many certified Special Teams cars out there that will just fade away as they are simply forgettable. But there are some really sweet customs that will inspire others to make their car into whatever they want. Imagine how much more interesting a conversation is with the guy is that actually built what he wanted compared to the guy that paid for the nostalgic marketing. The Modder being the grass roots of muscle car history offers the more nostalgic example and a far more interesting story.
I've read Mr D's responses. He's not flip flopping he's trying not to upset the crybabies out there who feel they deserve to be able to dictate who can call their car what and why. His first post on this thread was actually some pretty sound advice for the OP. And ever since then...He's been trying to diffuse your pissy attitude and attacks over some of the stupidest details and its just embarrassing for you.
Your certified Roush plaque....is stupid and pretentious. It tells me you likely paid too freakin much for your car just to earn a place in line for some undeserved status simply because you paid the up charges for a frail old man's marketing tactics. And the really sad part is...you bought into it.
I'm glad you respect Jack Roush so much....But, when you think about it...he earned that respect. And I'm sure he wouldn't slam anyone for placing his name on their car. He might actually go to them shake their hand for such attention to detail or for the props they're giving him and likely autograph their Vehicle personally, which would put more PERCEIVED value in that Clone or Replica than any certified loss of hard earned money....
Let that sink in a bit. I know its hard to accept...
Your words are just opinion too. Just like you're claiming mine are. And some opinions are more spot on than others.
B's 5.0...is awesome. Its a Replica and its as much a Roush as yours, perhaps far better looking. A few more details and you'll never really tell except for a few minor things that only a pretentious crybaby would harp on. And the only people who would find their undies bunching are those crybabies. I'm sure even Mr. Roush would be honored.
Yup I said it....Get over yourself. There's a big world out there...learn to share it.
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He's not a poser. He's intelligent and savvy in his decision to create the car he wants. And instead of paying an old frail man who can't even track the vehicles he is certifying himself upwards of 100% more than what he can build for himself ...he's building it himself.
Yet you went out of your way to slam him as well. Simply because you felt so above him because you have a certified Roush. Here's the reality...normal people don't really care what you have.... They appreciate the story behind what they see, they enjoy the fit and finish that you present to them and If B's replica looks better...that's all they remember. There are many certified Special Teams cars out there that will just fade away as they are simply forgettable. But there are some really sweet customs that will inspire others to make their car into whatever they want. Imagine how much more interesting a conversation is with the guy is that actually built what he wanted compared to the guy that paid for the nostalgic marketing. The Modder being the grass roots of muscle car history offers the more nostalgic example and a far more interesting story.
I've read Mr D's responses. He's not flip flopping he's trying not to upset the crybabies out there who feel they deserve to be able to dictate who can call their car what and why. His first post on this thread was actually some pretty sound advice for the OP. And ever since then...He's been trying to diffuse your pissy attitude and attacks over some of the stupidest details and its just embarrassing for you.
Your certified Roush plaque....is stupid and pretentious. It tells me you likely paid too freakin much for your car just to earn a place in line for some undeserved status simply because you paid the up charges for a frail old man's marketing tactics. And the really sad part is...you bought into it.
I'm glad you respect Jack Roush so much....But, when you think about it...he earned that respect. And I'm sure he wouldn't slam anyone for placing his name on their car. He might actually go to them shake their hand for such attention to detail or for the props they're giving him and likely autograph their Vehicle personally, which would put more PERCEIVED value in that Clone or Replica than any certified loss of hard earned money....
Let that sink in a bit. I know its hard to accept...
Your words are just opinion too. Just like you're claiming mine are. And some opinions are more spot on than others.
B's 5.0...is awesome. Its a Replica and its as much a Roush as yours, perhaps far better looking. A few more details and you'll never really tell except for a few minor things that only a pretentious crybaby would harp on. And the only people who would find their undies bunching are those crybabies. I'm sure even Mr. Roush would be honored.
Yup I said it....Get over yourself. There's a big world out there...learn to share it.
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Last edited by Cruzinaround; 03-25-2014 at 08:33 AM.
03-25-2014, 01:22 AM
#103
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,149
Let's Get Back To Playing Nice!
Our Military Industrial Complex wants war for profits, but not me!
Let's Get Back To Playing Nice!
Putting Roush decals, etc. on a Mustang, or Ford Truck is much like putting Edelbrock decals on a car that has Edelbrock Engine, heads, Manifold, cam and carburetor! Most likely it is to show off some raised level of performance improvement due to add Edelbrock speed equipment. Unless an owner is trying to sell a Mustang by claiming it is a Factory Serial Numbered Roush when it is not I don't think anyone has a reason to get upset. [B]When a Authorized Roush Shop builds a Mustang that has a Roush supercharger, CAI, Shock Tower strut, Suspension exhaust, and etc. they should not be criticized for calling their car a Roush "Shop" Ford/Roush Warrantee Build........... but not a "Factory Roush Serial Numbered" build
Let's Get Back To Playing Nice!
Putting Roush decals, etc. on a Mustang, or Ford Truck is much like putting Edelbrock decals on a car that has Edelbrock Engine, heads, Manifold, cam and carburetor! Most likely it is to show off some raised level of performance improvement due to add Edelbrock speed equipment. Unless an owner is trying to sell a Mustang by claiming it is a Factory Serial Numbered Roush when it is not I don't think anyone has a reason to get upset. [B]When a Authorized Roush Shop builds a Mustang that has a Roush supercharger, CAI, Shock Tower strut, Suspension exhaust, and etc. they should not be criticized for calling their car a Roush "Shop" Ford/Roush Warrantee Build........... but not a "Factory Roush Serial Numbered" build
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Clermont, FL
Posts: 2,952
My car below is a perfect, perfect Clone of a 1961 Chevrolet Fuely that has every part and number right! No NCRS Judge has can find on error in it, because it is physically the same! Yet, being a clone it is worth no more than 1/3 of an original! Myself, I'd rather afford 3 or 4 great clones than one too expensive Original I'd be afraid tto park in front of my favorite restaurant!....then that's me!
why dont you call it a 61 fuelie since it contains all the fuelie parts and markers.
oh wait, because its not a fuelie, never will be, just like your mustang will NEVER be a roush/roush authorized build. No matter what parts you install or anybody installs for you.
03-25-2014, 09:27 AM
#106
This is actually a pretty relevant question. I suspect it has to do with the politics of car shows and producing verification. Or, because its not trying to reproduce any specialty team variant vehicle or factory produced historical limited edition model. But, it is an interesting question.
Still...
I'm curious to hear that explanation.
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Still...
I'm curious to hear that explanation.
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03-25-2014, 07:07 PM
#107
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South FL
Posts: 8,540
Think about this: If the Roush name and Roush Mustang weren't a step above, why are so many here trying to copy them?
On that same note, should I not be proud of owning something so many here are trying to copy?
Cruizin.... I've never said anything to promote my car being greater than a Roush clone - or any other Mustang. I love talking to, interacting with and helping other Mustang lovers who modify their cars.
I have been trying to clarify for others what a REAL Roush is vs an owner/shop build. I have never said one is better than the other - only that they are different when looking at resale value of an authentic vs clone. If you read my old posts, you'll see I LOVE Roush clones/copies etc... I almost bought one. In fact (as I have posted), one of the nicest Mustangs I've ever seen is a 2002 Roush S2 clone.
B's car is the same in my opinion. Yes, it's a super nice car - I even posted that in his thread. But it lacks the core parts of the Roush he's claiming to clone. I point blank asked him about it. It says Roush Stage 3 on it, yet it has none of the core Roush Stage 3 parts. As of right now, it's not even a Stage 1 clone.
You saying it's just as much a Roush as mine is flat out laughable. Other than Roush stickers and little things, it lacks the body, the full suspension, the wheels, the power, the interior....and yes, the serial number. Ok so that last part is up for debate... but clearly a sticker laden car is not as much a Roush as an actual Roush. 50 years from now a serialized and documented Roush Mustang and a Mustang with Roush stickers and accessories aren't going to pull the same value. That doesn't mean they aren't cool cars or the owners are bad in any way. It's strickly in regard to value down the road (which is what this thread is about).
I'm not an elitest or a snob of any type. I'm a stickler for FACTS and REALITY. I love that you are calling me names. You guys stick to those personal attacks, as clearly you have no facts to back up your thought process.
You ASSUME I paid extra for my car for a name on it, and try to belittle me for it. Again, you would be WRONG. Stop to consider that I might have less into buying mine than others posting in this thread to create a copy. You also sit here and claim the owner builds are more unqiue than buying one off the lot. Both of my Roush cars have been highly modified by me - making them unique to me as per my personal taste and needs out of the cars. We're all the same in that regard.
I'm not here to call people names or belittle them - and I don't. I'm here to put FACTS out there so people have the correct information. If you get personally offened, so be it. Block me, don't read my information/posts, click the little red X in the corner of the window and move on. I'm glad Mr D is now saying his car is not a real Roush. It is still a nice car and I like it.
On that same note, should I not be proud of owning something so many here are trying to copy?
Cruizin.... I've never said anything to promote my car being greater than a Roush clone - or any other Mustang. I love talking to, interacting with and helping other Mustang lovers who modify their cars.
I have been trying to clarify for others what a REAL Roush is vs an owner/shop build. I have never said one is better than the other - only that they are different when looking at resale value of an authentic vs clone. If you read my old posts, you'll see I LOVE Roush clones/copies etc... I almost bought one. In fact (as I have posted), one of the nicest Mustangs I've ever seen is a 2002 Roush S2 clone.
B's car is the same in my opinion. Yes, it's a super nice car - I even posted that in his thread. But it lacks the core parts of the Roush he's claiming to clone. I point blank asked him about it. It says Roush Stage 3 on it, yet it has none of the core Roush Stage 3 parts. As of right now, it's not even a Stage 1 clone.
You saying it's just as much a Roush as mine is flat out laughable. Other than Roush stickers and little things, it lacks the body, the full suspension, the wheels, the power, the interior....and yes, the serial number. Ok so that last part is up for debate... but clearly a sticker laden car is not as much a Roush as an actual Roush. 50 years from now a serialized and documented Roush Mustang and a Mustang with Roush stickers and accessories aren't going to pull the same value. That doesn't mean they aren't cool cars or the owners are bad in any way. It's strickly in regard to value down the road (which is what this thread is about).
I'm not an elitest or a snob of any type. I'm a stickler for FACTS and REALITY. I love that you are calling me names. You guys stick to those personal attacks, as clearly you have no facts to back up your thought process.
You ASSUME I paid extra for my car for a name on it, and try to belittle me for it. Again, you would be WRONG. Stop to consider that I might have less into buying mine than others posting in this thread to create a copy. You also sit here and claim the owner builds are more unqiue than buying one off the lot. Both of my Roush cars have been highly modified by me - making them unique to me as per my personal taste and needs out of the cars. We're all the same in that regard.
I'm not here to call people names or belittle them - and I don't. I'm here to put FACTS out there so people have the correct information. If you get personally offened, so be it. Block me, don't read my information/posts, click the little red X in the corner of the window and move on. I'm glad Mr D is now saying his car is not a real Roush. It is still a nice car and I like it.
03-25-2014, 07:09 PM
#108
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South FL
Posts: 8,540
Explain this to me, You say your car is a roush build and not a clone cause it has a roush blower. But you will call your 61 vette a clone when it is Identical to a original factory built fuelie.
why dont you call it a 61 fuelie since it contains all the fuelie parts and markers.
oh wait, because its not a fuelie, never will be, just like your mustang will NEVER be a roush/roush authorized build. No matter what parts you install or anybody installs for you.
why dont you call it a 61 fuelie since it contains all the fuelie parts and markers.
oh wait, because its not a fuelie, never will be, just like your mustang will NEVER be a roush/roush authorized build. No matter what parts you install or anybody installs for you.
This is exactly what I'm getting at. Although, it is a Roush certified blower install - without the warrenty due to the optional cold air intake.
03-25-2014, 07:39 PM
#109
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South FL
Posts: 8,540
Question: You guys are saying it's better to build yourself than buy a name with the parts there. Why not post that in the GT500 or Cobra sections - or even for the Mach 1 cars?
Also, why do you guys over pay for GT V8s? Take the money you paid over the cost of the base model V6 Mustang of the same year, and you can build your own with more performance for less money than you have into the V8.
Same train of thought.
Think about it. Get back to me.
Also, why do you guys over pay for GT V8s? Take the money you paid over the cost of the base model V6 Mustang of the same year, and you can build your own with more performance for less money than you have into the V8.
Same train of thought.
Think about it. Get back to me.
03-26-2014, 02:49 AM
#110
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,149
[QUOTE=LilRoush;8367411]Question: You guys are saying it's better to build yourself than buy a name with the parts there.
(Absolutely not! It's just a choice. Part of the issue is that if you like the basic Ford Mustang styling, you can get a good discount on a GT that you can't get on a GT 500 due to the low production. Part of my initial comment from a long time ago was that young guys that should not be spending $60K on a Mustang for whatever reason such as income or supporting a new family, could compromise and consider buying a low mileage 5.0L GT and going to a Roush Authorized shop and getting a Roush supercharger installed! It gives a guy with limited funds a 575 to 625 HP Mustang for 50 t0 60% of a GT 500. It is not a Shelby, but it will be a fund car to own until someday a guy can afford to pay for a Shelby! I never said it was good as a Shelby, just a choice for a guy who doesn't have $60K to spend.)
Also, why do you guys over pay for GT V8s? Take the money you paid over the cost of the base model V6 Mustang of the same year, and you can build your own with more performance for less money than you have into the V8.
(I don't know about the numbers there based on a V-6. I just think the 5.0L Coyote is a great engine, and with a supercharger it makes a nice 575 to 625 HP Mustang with either stick or automatic. My experience is that "big brakes" are not necessary if you are not running on a track or pushing it really hard. Standard brakes stop pretty well "one time" when buzzing it from zero up to highway speeds. Also the stock exhaust is not necessary if money is short. NOW..... let me be clear, "big brakes" and "exhaust upgrades" are better, but not absolutely necessary when a supercharger is added if money is tight.
These are just choices for those who want to spend less than a Shelby, Roush, Saleen, etc. require! Not as good, just a less expensive choice that still produces a quick Mustang!)
(Absolutely not! It's just a choice. Part of the issue is that if you like the basic Ford Mustang styling, you can get a good discount on a GT that you can't get on a GT 500 due to the low production. Part of my initial comment from a long time ago was that young guys that should not be spending $60K on a Mustang for whatever reason such as income or supporting a new family, could compromise and consider buying a low mileage 5.0L GT and going to a Roush Authorized shop and getting a Roush supercharger installed! It gives a guy with limited funds a 575 to 625 HP Mustang for 50 t0 60% of a GT 500. It is not a Shelby, but it will be a fund car to own until someday a guy can afford to pay for a Shelby! I never said it was good as a Shelby, just a choice for a guy who doesn't have $60K to spend.)
Also, why do you guys over pay for GT V8s? Take the money you paid over the cost of the base model V6 Mustang of the same year, and you can build your own with more performance for less money than you have into the V8.
(I don't know about the numbers there based on a V-6. I just think the 5.0L Coyote is a great engine, and with a supercharger it makes a nice 575 to 625 HP Mustang with either stick or automatic. My experience is that "big brakes" are not necessary if you are not running on a track or pushing it really hard. Standard brakes stop pretty well "one time" when buzzing it from zero up to highway speeds. Also the stock exhaust is not necessary if money is short. NOW..... let me be clear, "big brakes" and "exhaust upgrades" are better, but not absolutely necessary when a supercharger is added if money is tight.
These are just choices for those who want to spend less than a Shelby, Roush, Saleen, etc. require! Not as good, just a less expensive choice that still produces a quick Mustang!)
