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Saleen, Roush and Boss Mustangs Discussions on Saleen, Roush, and late model Shinoda Boss Models within. SVT models, check the 4.6L section.

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Old 10-29-2013, 08:53 AM   #11
Rachael427R
 
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Vehicle: 2007 Ford Mustang 427R Convertible
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Originally Posted by LilRoush View Post
I'm sorry to hear about this!! Lawyer up for sure!!


Let me know if there is anything I can help with from the stand point of what a 'real' Roush is vs a copy/clone/fake.
Thanks for the help. I'm really conflicted as to what to do. On one hand I feel that I have a strong case and should be repaid for being misled, but on the other hand, the car is not a piece of crap--quite the opposite, and I love it...but the seller being SUCH an ******* in his emails to me since I discovered it was a clone makes me want to take him to court that much more. I'm talking about a 55+ man taking advantage of a 24 year old female. Also I do feel I overpaid. I found out from the dealer that the car recently appraised for $18,000.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:58 AM   #12
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Can you list the options on the car? Roushcharger, suspension, seats, brakes (big or factory), wheels, gauges, etc., etc.? Reason I am asking is, I just ran the value of your car on NADA Guides (using Baltimore for the ZIP code), and it says that a clean 2007 GT convertible with 31,000 miles is worth $18,825 at retail. If this guy added all the correct 427R mods, especially the blower, then the price you paid is actually not bad with all the mods included.

True, it's not a real 427R, but what it comes down to is, it may be you got the car for a fair price (if not a slight overpay). If you got all the goodies, you may not be far off on the money.

A true 427R is a Mustang with about $20K worth of stuff on it from the factory (mine was $49K new, factory Ford sticker was $28K), so after six years, depreciation and all, $6K for all the same stuff is not bad... if this guy did everything.

Anyway, something to think about. If you do decide to go forward, get all your ducks in a row from Roush, the dealership you mentioned, etc. May want to consider small claims... no attorney needed.
I know the guy put a lot of money into it, but even if he put $20k worth of stuff on it, it doesn't mean it becomes worth that. The seller doesn't even have ANY paperwork or receipts for this thing. The car was recently appraised for $18k. It has the total bottom package, painted stripes, not decals, mods also made to cold air intake, long tube headers, all caps and dip sticks under the hood have been replaced with new stand out ones, and hood struts on hood as well as hood locks on the outside. Small claims may be an option. I'd at least like to get a free consultation from an attorney, even bite the bullet and pay $500 for a threatening letter.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:11 AM   #13
Rachael427R
 
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Purchased my 2007 Roush 427R in 2008. It came with both the Ford GT sticker and the Roush invoice of upgrades.
These cars currently sell between $22k-$30k from private Seller's. If you paid $24k that's really not a bad price, especially for a Vert.
I know there was misrepresentation on the Seller's part but attorney fees could be cost prohibitive.
I suggest that if you like the car, keep it. It's a Roush clone and that's ok. I'm sure it's still a fun car that gets a lot of looks and drives great.
These cars are not listed in KBB and resale value is minimal.
My friend has a 2007 427R with 10,000 miles and is selling it for $27k.
The 428Rs and 429Rs sell for slightly higher. The Black Jacks and P51s higher still and the 427R Trak Paks are probably the most sought after because of their handling upgrades for HPDE track use.
If it really bothers you and you're after justice then I personally would gather as much information as possible and threaten to sue the Seller to try to recoup some money or file in Small Claims Court Good Luck.
The attorney fees are what's holding me back here. I do think I'm owed something, but I don't know how that will balance out vs. what I'll end up paying the attorney. I mean if I take this guy to court, I want the $ difference in value, $ for the fraud he committed, $ for my time off work to deal with this and $ to pay my attorney. I don't know if that's how it works though, I've never been involved in a lawsuit before.

A part of my really does want justice too. I've gathered a lot of information that builds my case. I've sent the seller a certified letter and several emails threatening legal action, and he's pretty much calling my bluff and daring me to take him to court. The guy can't put a decent sentence together to save his life so now he has his wife and kids emailing me and writing letters.

If I had a piece of junk car I'd be livid, but the fact that I have a beautiful car eases that a little. I def want to keep it and don't want to void the sale. I've won best of show in 2 out of 2 shows I've entered since I bought the thing a month ago. Small claims may be an option, but isn't fraud criminal? Even the bill of sale says right on it that misrepresentation can lead to fines of hundreds of dollars and possibly jail time. I don't want the guy to go to jail, but this 55 year old man looked me in the eyes and lied to my face then on the bill of sale. He knew what he was doing but as a young female he thought I was too dumb to figure it out or come back and confront him.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:32 PM   #14
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If it's attorney fees you fear, talk to one. It's been my expeirence that the loser in court pays the fees all around. Some might ever offer the 'we don't get paid until you get paid' deal.

As for Roush being listed as a manufacturer, only Saleen does that - and they get a new VIN indicating such. A Roush will always be a Ford Mustang (V6/GT etc...) by VIN. It makes us work a little more to get insurance coverage, loan values and resale cost b/c they are not listed in any of the 'books' places like to use.


It would be interesting to see the full list of mods done to the car. I know a lot of people get all touchy about saying a 'real' one is better, but there is a lot of be said about having it built by the guys who do it for a living. Having any old shop toss together performance parts can lead to problems later. It all comes down to the quality of the build.

I am happy to hear you like it. I hope it all works out for you. Make sure to post some pics up!!
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by LilRoush View Post
If it's attorney fees you fear, talk to one. It's been my expeirence that the loser in court pays the fees all around. Some might ever offer the 'we don't get paid until you get paid' deal.


It would be interesting to see the full list of mods done to the car. I know a lot of people get all touchy about saying a 'real' one is better, but there is a lot of be said about having it built by the guys who do it for a living. Having any old shop toss together performance parts can lead to problems later. It all comes down to the quality of the build.

I am happy to hear you like it. I hope it all works out for you. Make sure to post some pics up!!
Yea, I'll see if I can get a free consultation to see if it's even worth taking on my case. It seems to me that the loser would pay the fees.

I posted some pics in my album. I have some really nice hi-res photos, but they are too big. If I can figure out how to shrink them down I'll post em.

Thanks!!
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rachael427R View Post
Yea, I'll see if I can get a free consultation to see if it's even worth taking on my case. It seems to me that the loser would pay the fees.

I posted some pics in my album. I have some really nice hi-res photos, but they are too big. If I can figure out how to shrink them down I'll post em.

Thanks!!
That is the best way.

If/When you talk to an attorney, the first thing they will want to know is what type of resolution you are looking ($$$). You need to be clear about this.

Personally I'd go after the difference in price between what a regular convertible GT goes for and what the Roush goes for (about 6 grand + attorney fees + your time and any lost wages). The reasoning is simple.

As a stand alone, the mods are not worth it to you. They were only worth it to you if the car was indeed a Roush, which it is not. You are not/were not willing to pay 6K extra for options that are not worth that much as they stand without the Roush serialized name to stand behind. At the very worst the court reduces that amount to half (3K) and gives you compensation for lost wages and attorney fees.

Keep a record of EVERY bit of communication you have with the seller. ALL of it. Any phone calls, take notes and record the date and time, etc. If the guy is as big of an idiot as he sounds, he will hang himself if he hasn't already.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:21 PM   #17
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That is the best way.

If/When you talk to an attorney, the first thing they will want to know is what type of resolution you are looking ($$$). You need to be clear about this.

Personally I'd go after the difference in price between what a regular convertible GT goes for and what the Roush goes for (about 6 grand + attorney fees + your time and any lost wages). The reasoning is simple.

As a stand alone, the mods are not worth it to you. They were only worth it to you if the car was indeed a Roush, which it is not. You are not/were not willing to pay 6K extra for options that are not worth that much as they stand without the Roush serialized name to stand behind. At the very worst the court reduces that amount to half (3K) and gives you compensation for lost wages and attorney fees.

Keep a record of EVERY bit of communication you have with the seller. ALL of it. Any phone calls, take notes and record the date and time, etc. If the guy is as big of an idiot as he sounds, he will hang himself if he hasn't already.
I totally agree with all you've said. And in regards to communication, I have every bit of it saved. I have refrained from speaking to him on the phone so that I have everything documented through email. He can say whatever he wants on the phone but I can't exactly record him.

I posted his same question on a legal forum and many of the people responding don't believe I have a case. They think I took advantage of the seller by paying below market value for what I believed to be an authentic Roush. They think I feel that it was ok for me to take advantage of him but when I found out he took advantage of me I'm claiming fraud.

And they also said I neglected to do "due diligence" and research an authentic Roush before I signed the check. My question is just if all that outweighs the fact that he lied on the bill of sale and sold me a car under false pretenses. It seems to me that what they're saying is that the way the law works, so long as the buyers don't figure out the fraud through research before they sign the check, it's ok to lie and con people because they should have figured it out before. I'm more conflicted than ever as to if I should pursue this or not...
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:32 PM   #18
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You can't take advantage of a seller if they are asking a low price. That's a crazy concept.

Check out both FNSweet.com and RoushForums.com (FNSweet might be more helpful.) You might be able to snag a real legal angle from a Roush owner/attorney or run across someone else with the same problem. Also check out Roush Addicts on Facebook. It's another large group of owners that might be able to help you out on the legal end.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:32 PM   #19
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One of the reasons some people buy Roush Mustangs is that it's a tuned car. All of the Research and Development has been done, then tested on mules to fine tune the performance of each part. What you have is a well balanced, badged and serialized high performance car.
This was misrepresented to you. I agree that you should come up with an amount of money to sue in your lawsuit case.
One of the ways to establish the value of your car is to depreciate the cost of your year/model GT and then depreciate the cost of the upgrades.
Another route to proceed is to file in small claims court case. The fear, hassle of a lawsuit may scare the Seller into a quick settlement. Once the defendant is served, perhaps a settlement can be negotiated without ever going to court.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:58 PM   #20
Rachael427R
 
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Originally Posted by LilRoush View Post
You can't take advantage of a seller if they are asking a low price. That's a crazy concept.

Check out both FNSweet.com and RoushForums.com (FNSweet might be more helpful.) You might be able to snag a real legal angle from a Roush owner/attorney or run across someone else with the same problem. Also check out Roush Addicts on Facebook. It's another large group of owners that might be able to help you out on the legal end.
You'd think!! But now I wonder if a judge will see it that way. I paid the guy what he was asking for it. I didn't even low-ball him. Besides, he seemed desperate to get rid of it because he needed the $$ for medical reasons.

I tried registering on FNSweet.com but i could not for the life of me figure out how to create a post. I was short on time so just gave it up. I'll def check out the others though. I want to get as much info as possible before moving forward.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:58 PM
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