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Factory Roush vs. Roush Clone--Buyer Beware?

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Old 03-01-2014, 02:25 PM   #61
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Or take it to an SVT dealer for new Cobra wheels or brakes, and you have a Cobra!
Maybe a GT500 hood on an S197, and you have a Shelby?
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:44 PM   #62
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Since my car has a Cobra blower, anniversary skirts, mach hood, and GT bumper do I have a SVT Mustang cobra-mach-bullitt-GT anniversary edition?
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:49 PM   #63
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Since my car has a Cobra blower, anniversary skirts, mach hood, and GT bumper do I have a SVT Mustang cobra-mach-bullitt-GT anniversary edition?
No it's only a svt mustang cobra-Mach-gt anniversary edition
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:05 AM   #64
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Who was that person?
From my experience with the Roush Performance company, they love all sorts of Mustangs - especially ones enhanced with aftermarket from Roush. In over a decade working with Roush products / cars, I've never heard of anyone from Roush calling a non-serialized car a real Roush. I'm very curious as the nature of the statement and who it was from.
Geez! I didn't say Roush said it was a "REAL ROUSH"! Those are your words! What I was trying to say is, whomever I talked to way back in 2008 said something to the effect of...... a vehicle where Roush backs the build with a Ford/Roush drivetrain warrantee is considered a Roush by Roush.

Obviously it would be very stupid customer relations for Roush to support and authorize a Roush dealer to do a $15-20,000. build on a new Mustang and then tell the customer, "Thank You for all that money, but please don't call your car a Roush!" LOL! Jack Roush is far to smart for that! There are videos I've seen on TV car shows where Jack Roush supports such builds by authorized Roush dealers showing dino test results for the builds that used all the performance parts of a Roush!

In conclusion, I did not, nor will I ever say that a Mustang build of an authorized dealer under Roush spec. is the same as, equal to, or as valuable as your serialized Roush! Happy now?

What I've tried to say, is that they should not be discounted as "clones" because they are neither clones, nor some stock Mustang somebody put a few decals on claiming it is a serialized factory Roush! As I've said clearly, they are not a factory built Roush with a serial number, but a Mustang as I've described can be called a Roush. Jack Roush was smart enough to build a factory Roush with a serial number for those who wanted one of the Roush advertised models, and also promote Roush authorized dealers to build cars to the buyers specifications. In my case, I wanted the Roush performance modifications, but I preferred the Ford GT 500 stock look as you can see! Jack Roush got the much of the profit of a Roush and I got the car I wanted! Why that upsets some people I don't know, but I doubt it upset Jack Roush on the way to the bank!

Many of you are obviously threaten by this discussion, so I'm done, and let's let it die! Obviously I shouldn't have brought the subject up! Sorry, I thought I was supporting a viable "choice" for Mustang enthusiasts.... not threatening those with serial numbered Roush Mustangs! I got confused and began to think Mustangs are great cars because they are made out of great performance parts..... when obviously their pedigree is what is most important! I'll be down below in the "steerage deck" of the Titanic looking up at the people with pedigrees like the Vanderbilts and Carnegies... when the ship goes down! Ta Ta! I hope I can find a wooden door with a serial number on it to float on! I wouldn't want to be saved by a "clone" door! LOL!


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Old 03-03-2014, 05:00 PM   #65
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Mr. D,

You keep refering to your car as a ROUSH. It is not.[/B][B] It's a GT with a Roush blower.

You just said you prefer the 'stock GT 500 look' - but your car has the stock GT look. Nothing on it has changes made to the GT500 of that year. I see a pattern of you calling your car things it's not.

You also make 'clones' out to be bad. I've seen clones built by authorized Roush dealers. They look / perform very well.

Of course Roush supports selling their products. I've never argued that. In fact I've put many Roush parts on non-Roush vehicles. In fact I put a TON of Roush parts into something Roush never even made - An Explorer Sport.

And if your fun little 'jack ***' picture was aimed at me, I might as well give up trying to explain you don't have a Roush. I'm not threatened at all, as you claim. I've been trying to help you understand what you have. Clearly, you aren't willing to learn and very defensive when people try to explain things that you are confused about. I'm sorry you don't like hearing you don't have a Roush. It's a fact whether you want to accept it or not.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:23 AM   #66
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But he has gt500 stripes installed by an authorized svt dealer, so it must be a gt500!
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:47 PM   #67
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Lil Roush,

The picture with the Jackass was not meant as an insult! Sorry if it was taken that way! In making it I was thinking how we all (including myself) can get so invested in our opinions that we find it hard to hear the other person. You have been polite in your posts and I appreciate that! Also Please note my car is labeled a Mustang GT Supercharged in pictures! Not a Roush. It is just how I wanted it built at the time in '08, not a clone of anything at all! Just the way I wanted it to look and run at the time I had it built.

As you guys have said repeatedly to me, "A Mustang built in an authorized Roush shop is not a Roush! It is simply a Ford Motor Company built Mustang with Roush parts on it!"

Apply that identical logic and test to a serial numbered Roush! What is it actually? It is simply a Ford Motor Company built Mustang with Roush parts on it!" I think the same applies to Shelby and Saleen. Maybe we should judge all of these cars by the way the individual car is equipped. As you guys well know, many Roush, Shelby, and Saleen cars don't exactly have great performance. I've met plenty of guys who have bought serial numbered cars that had no more performance that a stock Ford Mustang. I looked at a Shelby on a Ford Lot that was a stock, iron engine! My little 4.6L would run away from it like it was standing still even with the larger displacement!

So......... as you guys rightly say, whether a car has a serial number or not.... BUYER BEWARE, ............. and do your research before you buy!

In any case I support your right to value your cars any way you wish and I don't disagree with that! Besides, I just had shoulder surgery yesterday so I better "shut up" my fingers!

Mr. D

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Actually he said to Humphrey Bogart, "Badges, Badges! We don't need no stinking badges!"
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:14 AM   #68
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When I bought my Roush Stage 2 new from the dealer, they wanted to make it clear that if I decided to have the Roushcharger installed before my warranty is up, that Roush would warranty the install. Being the only difference between my car and a Roush Stage 3, this would still not make it a Roush Stage 3. It would just be a Roushcharged Roush Stage 2. Your car is a Roushcharged Ford Mustang GT. That should be it - that should be the end of the story.

Personally, I would like to hear from OP to see what happened. Please for the sake of arguments take it to PMs
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:52 PM   #69
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When I bought my Roush Stage 2 new from the dealer, they wanted to make it clear that if I decided to have the Roushcharger installed before my warranty is up, that Roush would warranty the install. Being the only difference between my car and a Roush Stage 3, this would still not make it a Roush Stage 3. It would just be a Roushcharged Roush Stage 2. Your car is a Roushcharged Ford Mustang GT. That should be it - that should be the end of the story.

Personally, I would like to hear from OP to see what happened. Please for the sake of arguments take it to PMs
All Roush modified cars are great and I criticize none of them or their owners! If a a person loves their car... what else matters? I contacted a friend who is a attorney and specialist that worked just under the Attorney General of my state to see if I was all wet in my opinion! It has happened before! LOL!

Here's what I found out which I know many will not accept out of hand! It's like arguing religion with some!

The problem comes from those with "serial numbered Roush factory "modified" Mustangs discounting Mustangs modified and warranted by Roush Authorized Dealers either before of after new car purchase. NO ONE claims any comparison in value, but some need to maintain that, "I can call my Mustang a Roush and you can't call yours a Roush!" They get mad if you don't let them make the rules! Sorry!

Here's the bottom line reality and legality about the name Roush! Roush is not a car manufacturer! It is a great company that makes performance parts added on to already manufacturered vehicles. There is no such thing as a Roush automobile, period! Try to get insurance on a Roush automobile, or look at your registration! It's a Ford Mustang, not a Roush! When your in warranty air conditioning fails try to get Roush to fix under warranty and Roush will explain the difference to you.

So you guys are taking it on yourselves to dictate what Ford Mustangs can be called a Roush out of some need to prove your serial numbered car is better than some on else's car even though some serial numbered cars are sadly lacking in performance! Shelby of Las Vegas will take any old Mustang and modify it cosmetically and sell you a serial number for it to increase its value.... for the profit. It's about marketing and profit, but neither Roush or Shelby manufactures a car! They are Ford Mustangs for every legal use!

A "factory serial numbered" Roush is a Ford Mustang to which Roush after market parts have been added! An Authorized Roush Dealer Roush is a Ford Mustang to which Roush after market parts have been added! Notice the similarity? Location is the only difference!

An Authorized Roush Dealer built Roush can be "inferior or superior" to a "factory serial numbered" Roush based on how much was spent on the modifications. Many would rather have a Authorized Roush Dealer built Roush with $25K authorized and warranted modifications than a serial numbered Roush with nothing but a body mods and very little performance! I've seen some of these Roush and Shelby cars that are not performance cars! That's not a criticism!

My car 40 year restoration buddy is far more about a car's looks and doesn't care much about performance! It's a choice! I love performance more than body modification in newer cars and looks more in older classic cars. To each his own! That's why I have a newer Mustang rather than a '68! The new one drives much, much, much better!

Again, I am not making any negative remarks about Factory serial numbered Roush cars, but some need to see them as far superior to a Roush Mustang modified by an authorized Roush dealer with a warrantee. Getting defensive and angry doesn't change the basic facts! There is no such thing as a Roush automobile, but obviously we both dislike a person taking a stock Mustang with a Roush decal and trying to sell it as a Roush, but you guys don't get to dictate what Mustangs can be called a Roush! Legally, DMV and DOT calls our cars Ford Mustangs.... not Roushs!

I respect your great Roush Mustang with lots of Roush mods, give the same respect to the guy whose car was modified by a Roush Authorized Dealer with a Roush warrantee! It's about the quality of the cars, not some insider club of have and have not Roushs! Be inclusive of all "nice" Roush Mustangs, not exclusive of cars without a serial number! That's not a car guy thing! Cars don't need to be royalty with pedigrees! They need to be cool and well built! That's kind of an American thing! Ask guys with "Rat Rods"! It's cool versus pedigrees! Let's not be Roush snobs! We like the cars and Roush likes the money! LOL!

I swear if I buy a Shelby next year I won't change sides and send in a picture of a serial number! LOL!

Ok, Soc Et Tu me!
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:43 PM   #70
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Shelby of Las Vegas will take any old Mustang and modify it cosmetically and sell you a serial number for it to increase its value.... for the profit. It's about marketing and profit, but neither Roush or Shelby manufactures a car! They are Ford Mustangs for every legal use!
Actually if you did a little research, instead of spouting off BS, you would find that once a car goes to Shelby, the manufacture and origin becomes Shelby America and Las Vegas on the title.

And also I guess in your world, the AC cobra, Daytona coupe, and Series 1 were made by Ford, since Shelby doesn't manufacture cars
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:36 AM   #71
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Actually if you did a little research, instead of spouting off BS, you would find that once a car goes to Shelby, the manufacture and origin becomes Shelby America and Las Vegas on the title.

And also I guess in your world, the AC cobra, Daytona coupe, and Series 1 were made by Ford, since Shelby doesn't manufacture cars
To the Noble Defenders of the Roush Pedigree, let me make it clear, I am not referring to some used, junker Mustang a kid puts decals on in his father's garage.... and hopes it will stay together until your check clears! Come on...... I am talking about "a Mustang modification done by an authorized Roush Dealer" under Roush specs with a "Roush/Ford warrantee" backed by both Roush and Ford! It's Roush quality! HELLO! Roush wants it that way or they wouldn't have Roush Dealers making warranted Ford/Roush builds! Duh! If it comes down to two Mustangs that are exactly the same but mine was done at the Roush factory with a serial number plate and yours was done by a lowly Roush authorized dealer.... then Nanny Nanny Boo Boo because mine is better! Come on! How sad is that state of affairs, and that is where we are for the purpose of defending Roush factory serial numbered cars.... that need no defending!

They are all Ford Mustangs simply with added Roush parts, period! There are no Roush automobiles to call a Roush! Look at your vehicle registration and auto insurance card! The word Roush does not appear!
Their value stands on the mods done not a "Blue Blooded serial number" sold with the modifications! Some cars built at Roush Authorized dealers that were far, far superior.... although of course some would undervalue them solely based on their lack of a serial number plate. It's the mods Dude, not the serial number!

Many Ford dealers take new GT's and send them to authorized Roush Dealers and then sell them to customers as a Roush modified car with full Ford warrantees. Interesting huh? One of the main reasons I had a new GT built by a Roush Dealer is that the serial numbered cars on the local dealers where models with body mods and very little performance mods at a high price. Of course, I completely agree "BUYER BEWARE AND UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF MODS AND IF THEY WERE ADDED UNDER ROUSH SUPERVISION WITH DOCUMENTATION IS CRITICAL OR YOU WILL GET CHEATED BY CROOKS!"

Many may not know that a Roush Authorized Dealer must install mods exactly like the Roush factory, or risk losing Roush authorization and Ford warrantees. Example: The dealer I use will not alter anything from Roush specs. in the installation risking their contract with Roush and the Ford warrantee. Doesn't that tell you something? The key issue related to value and warrantees is paperwork showing that a Roush Authorized Dealer did the mods under a Roush agreement.

As far as Shelby of Las Vegas, I guess they lied to my face and the Mustangs I saw being modified with superchargers, suspensions, etc. in Las Vegas where some kind of trick done with mirrors! Go visit them and watch them work! Common sense would tell anyone that Shelby of Las Vegas would not ship them to the factory at a great cost when the build can be done right there and a number plate added. (Of course the serial number plate is necessary so that a Roush Mustang sold at a dealer is standardized as to Roush advertising in print and online! A Mustang without a serial number is not the advertised package, from Roush and is a separate build not advertised for obvious marketing reasons.)

The bottom line is a Roush is simply a Ford Mustang with Roush performance or styling parts added. There is no such thing as a Roush automobile! You, and others with serial numbered cars simply don't get to dictate which Mustangs are "up to your standards and you will allow them to be called a Roush, while others don't make it!", simply based on the geographic location the same exact parts were added, and a little number plate based on creating Roush profits. It just is inaccurate as related to quality and value! Many non serial numbered Roush authorized Dealer Mustangs are equipped far better than some of the serial numbered cars sold at a Ford Dealership. If the serial number plate is the big deal, and obviously more important than the actual equipment on the car we might as well just start clubs based serial number plates, and forget the quality of the Mustangs! If a owner has to rely on the serial number plate for added value, something is wrong in with his car! The value should be based on the (1.) condition of the car and (2.) the Roush mods added and documented either by the factory or an authorized Roush dealer, not a 50 cent plate on the car! If Roush and Ford combine to warrantee an authorized Roush Dealer Build it can be called a Roush Mustang! Common sense says that Ford would not honor their new car warrantees on these Roush Authorized Dealer Builds if they were not a considered a Roush Mustang! I had a bearing go out in my Mustang and the Ford Dealer replaced the transmission because it was covered by Ford as a Roush Build just like a Factory Build. The Ford Dealer took a few days to verify the build as a Roush build! that's good enough for me! Owners of Roush Factory serial numbered cars don't get to dictate which cars can be referred to as a Roush Mustangs! The value of the car is based on the build done by either the Roush Factory or an Authorized Roush/Ford warrantee supplying dealer!

I wish the Factory serial number snobbery would end and you guys could see that a Roush Authorized Dealer build with Ford/Roush warrantee should be also considered a Roush!

Good luck with that one! Right? LOL! I know, "Nanny Nanny Boo Boo, I've got a serial number so my car's a real Roush.... and yours isn't!" Does it do 0 to 60 in 4.6 seconds like mine, or just have body mods a serial number?

I've wasted my typing with most here, but maybe a few wanting to get a Mustang will be helped by some clear information! In some cases, you can get a hell of a lot more car from a Roush Authorized Dealer Build than the Ford Dealer if you want more choice in the Roush Mods added, and don't notice any performance added by the serial number plate! Like it or not, it's the truth!

Lighten up O' Noble Defenders of the Roush Pedigree! No one's against Factory Roush Mustangs! They're great! I'm just trying to get you to stop "dictating" which Roush/Ford warranted builds can be called a Roush! If they are warranted by Ford and Roush they should be called a Roush! Roush doesn't have a problem with it, so why are we measuring our decks?


Here's an example of a Roush Package on a Ford lot with no real Roush performance just appearance mods while another Mustang build by a Roush Dealer with real performance mods does not qualify for the Roush name? I guess it's the serial number! I'd rather have no serial number and Roush performance for the less money, but that's just me!

ROUSH® Stage 1 Mustang. Packaging all American styling and a full range of signature ROUSH-only options, the Stage 1 is sure to turn heads.

Exterior identifiers for the Stage 1, or RS1 for short, include a ROUSH front windshield banner, Stage 1 upper grille badge, ROUSH "R" fender badges, Stage 1 decklid badge, rear faux gas cap "R" badge and finishes off with a Jack Roush signature graphic on the rear decklid.

The main contents of the Stage 1

This changes the front look of the car with the ROUSH designed upper grille, high-flow lower opening (grille eliminator), corner fascia aero pockets with driving lamps and front chin splitter. At the rear of the car sits the ROUSH three-piece rear decklid spoiler giving the car a sleek look without obstructing the view out the rear window. Moving towards the back are the ROUSH rocker panel and rear fascia side splitters to give the car an aggressive, low stance. Rounding out the tail end is the new ROUSH rear aero valance featuring race-inspired diffusers made to seamlessly fit the ROUSH’s dual chambered, chrome exhaust tips.

Interior styling touches on the Stage 1 include ROUSH embroidered floor mats, ROUSH center console button, Stage 1 dash medallion, Jack Roush signature graphic on the dash and under the hood is a serialized Stage 1 plaque Whoopee!
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:39 AM   #72
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OK
Authorized ROUSH dealer doesnt mean shat. It just means that dealer is authorized to sell NEW Roush vehicles, just like a svt dealer or a saleen dealer or even a srt dealer.

You cannot walk into just any dealership and buy one, you can however, take your car to the a nonroush ford dealer and they will install the roushcharger w/warranty. because FORD installed it.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:05 AM   #73
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OK
Authorized ROUSH dealer doesnt mean shat. It just means that dealer is authorized to sell NEW Roush vehicles, just like a svt dealer or a saleen dealer or even a srt dealer.

You cannot walk into just any dealership and buy one, you can however, take your car to the a nonroush ford dealer and they will install the roushcharger w/warranty. because FORD installed it.
I guess I wasn't clear!

I'm not talking about Ford Dealers! I'm talking about Authorized Roush Shops that can do builds using all the available Roush mods and creating a Mustang with a Ford/Roush warrantee. They don't sell automobiles at all! Both the Roush Factory and Roush Authorized Dealers start with a Ford Mustang and add Roush created parts! You just choose to say when the Roush Factory does it you have a Roush, but when an authorized Roush Shop does it you don't have a Roush! In both cases, if it is simply legally and logically undeniable that you have a Ford Mustang with added Roush parts! It is silly to call one a Roush and not the other since legally their is no such thing as a Roush manufactured automobile! Why would a bunch of different Roush aftermarket body works parts bolted on to a Ford product be any different than a bunch of Roush mechanical high performance parts? A Roush does not exist as a different automobile. They are simply Ford Mustangs with after market parts! You just value the bolted on body parts calling it a Roush, while I value the high performance parts calling it also a Roush!

How is a Roush supercharger and the CAI, etc. mods that go with it, plus a Roush suspension and exhaust system etc., etc. make a Mustang less a Roush than the all the Factory add on superficial stuff listed below? What's the good of a Roush with no added performance! The Roush builds of an Authorized Roush Shop at least perform like Jack Roush's original Mustangs! The mods below I agree are fine for looks if you like them, but they hardly make a car more a Roush than $15 to $20K of performance modifications!

ROUSH designed upper grille, high-flow lower opening (grille eliminator), corner fascia aero pockets with driving lamps and front chin splitter. At the rear of the car sits the ROUSH three-piece rear decklid spoiler giving the car a sleek look without obstructing the view out the rear window. Moving towards the back are the ROUSH rocker panel and rear fascia side splitters to give the car an aggressive, low stance. Rounding out the tail end is the new ROUSH rear aero valance featuring race-inspired diffusers made to seamlessly fit the ROUSH’s dual chambered, chrome exhaust tips. But.... its got a serial number plate which is the important thing for a real Roush high performance Mustang! Come on! That's snobbery!

Here's the engine of an "Edelbrock '56 Chevy".... although it just is called Chevy by DMV! LOL!

Click the image to open in full size.

If you get past the sales pitches, they are all just production cars with added after market parts, so we shouldn't look down our noses at those without a simple serial number plate. It's just marketing! Maybe the value should be based on the car attributes and mods, not the serial number plate! I think I'll just get a plate off a wrecked Roush and put it on my car and watch its value double! Just kidding, that's what we do agree on! That's dishonest, but good luck in court unless the seller tells the buyer it was a serial numbered car when it isn't!

Note: My car is never because called a Roush because it isn't even a Roush clone! It's just what I like and had built! It stands on it's own based on the way it runs! People can call it anything they want as it screams by at a timed 4.6 Sec. (0 to 60) at half the cost of a Roush or Shelby!

You have a nice looking car, although I'm more old school as you see! Wanta race for pink slips unless.... you've got something hiding I don't know about? LOL! Just kidding! We disagree, but have fun with your Mustang! That's all that counts! I've been around too long building cars to be impressed with names! Show me what its got and how it runs. The only thing I'd add to my car is a 5.0L Coyote for extra power and since it has 10K miles on it, that won't happen! The extra power isn't worth the cost of a new car and all the supercharger mods! Besides, I like the '08 styling better than the new ones... which I like too!


Be happy! Life's too short for anything else!

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Old 03-18-2014, 02:09 PM   #74
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Seriously, you need to stop with all of this ranting. It's been explained to you over and over what you have. I don't even bother reading all of the posts anymore. It's the same old broken record.

A 99+ Roush has a serial number. End of story.
You don't have one.
You have a Mustnag GT with Roush parts installed by a Roush dealer to ensure the warrenty.
Why can't you understand that?

Your example of an "Edlebrock" Chevy is so far off base that it's not even funny.

Also, no new cars go from a Ford dealer to Roush then back to a dealer as a Roush. That's not how it works. Get your facts straight.

Your SC'd car is less than a Roush because you have one part of a fully developed package.... oh and no serial number.

In post #71, I love that you just used a Roush Stage 1 as an example of a dealer build and call it nothing special. Guess what... it's a REAL ROUSH and your's isn't! That is the car people buy when they want a Roush and make it there own with vairous other parts. My 2000 #5004 was a Stage 1 (V6). It was 2 cylinders less than your almighty 4.6L supercharged V8 car and would mop the track with it without breaking a sweat.

Yes, I'm getting an attitude now. Why? Because you are clearly ranting about your short comings in a car and feel the need to throw it all in our faces. You're a squeaky wheel in need of attention. Every time you post, you make certain to show you don't listen when people are trying to educate you about high end Mustangs and you continue to present invalid reasoning behind your points.

Why are you not happy with what you have? Why try to bash serialized cars just because you don't have one? I promise you everyone here would offer you a hand shake and a pat on the back if you just understood your car is GT with a Roush blower, and it's of less market value than an authentic serialized Roush. Your **** poor attitude is killing how nice your car is.
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:18 PM   #75
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.... Try to get insurance on a Roush automobile....
I'm quoting this for special EPIC FAILURE OF FACTS.

Guess what, mine is insured as a ROUSH. In fact, both of mine were insured that way. Stop making up 'facts' to defend you point of view.
When my 2000 was stolen and stripped, it was covered as a ROUSH. When I got a check for it, it wasn't for a V6 2000 Mustang, it was for the value of damage done to a (wait for it.....) ROUSH. Why you ask? Because the wheels (even used) were of more market value than a similar year V6 Mustang. Why? Because the name means something. If it didn't, you would be so stuck on the fact that you have that name under your hood as well.

Just for fun, my SVT is the same way. I mean it's just a Ford, and there's nothing really special to call it an SVT, right? Oh wait, that serial number / build number means something. I keep forgetting that. (sarcasm)
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:11 AM   #76
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I'm quoting this for special EPIC FAILURE OF FACTS.

Guess what, mine is insured as a ROUSH. In fact, both of mine were insured that way. Stop making up 'facts' to defend you point of view.
When my 2000 was stolen and stripped, it was covered as a ROUSH. When I got a check for it, it wasn't for a V6 2000 Mustang, it was for the value of damage done to a (wait for it.....) ROUSH. Why you ask? Because the wheels (even used) were of more market value than a similar year V6 Mustang. Why? Because the name means something. If it didn't, you would be so stuck on the fact that you have that name under your hood as well.

Just for fun, my SVT is the same way. I mean it's just a Ford, and there's nothing really special to call it an SVT, right? Oh wait, that serial number / build number means something. I keep forgetting that. (sarcasm)
Come on! You know better than this! Of course the model of a Mustang is included in the insurance description, or they would know what they have to replace. What I said, as you know, is there is no Roush Car manufactured. So are you telling me your insurance says Roush, BUT not Ford Mustang? State and Federal governments do not recognize Roush Automobile Manufacturer! Look it up! You are driving a Ford Mustang with Roush equipment! You just don't recognize them as a Roush if the equipment was added by an authorized dealer because you think it lowers the value of your Mustangs! It doesn't! If fact some Factory Roush cars might hurt values because of lack of performance!

My point in the whole discussion, is that owners like you have taken it on themselves to decide what is a Roush, and what is not a Roush! The variance between what the Roush Factory turns out as a modified Roush Mustang is a wide set of mods. I simply think it is petty and silly for guys with a serial numbered cars to say that is all that can be called a Roush, when some Roush Authorized Shop are doing builds far more in to the reputation of performance the Jack Roush Mustangs of old were know for! Many factory Roushs are all about being pretty and have forgotten Jack Roush Performace!

I have no criticism for factory Roush modified Mustangs because they are great cars and of more value! My problem is the "Roush Serial Number Club" feels the needs to say to a guy that buys a new GT 5.0L he picked up from a Roush Authorized Dealer with $15 to $20K of Roush mods and a warrantee based on contract between Ford and Roush to create these builds cannot ever be called a Roush! How insecure and petty!

How would you guys like it if I said, "I don't care if your Mustang has a cool serial number plate, but if it doesn't have sufficient Roush high performance parts it is not a Roush! It is a Stock Ford Mustang with bolted on Roush appearance parts! It's like in the 50's when we said, "If it doesn't go, chrome it!...... or bolt on some Roush body appearance parts!"

The difference is I don't think anyone should be telling any "Mustang Owner with a Ford/Roush warrantee in his hand" that is his 575 HP GT with $20,000 in Roush performance mods ...... is not a Roush and yours is just because it came from the factory with a new grill and some pretty bolt on appearance mods! [U] Ford and Roush warranted that build under contract and both Ford and Roush will stand behind that build! AND THAT MEANS IT IS A ROUSH MUSTANG FOR WARRANTEE PURPOSES BECAUSE THAT IS HOW IT IS TREATED! (Unless they are ignorant as many are!)
If the build you have was done by an Authorized Roush Shop and warranted by both Ford and Roush, it's a Roush Mustang built at a Roush authorized dealer that will be warranted by both Ford and Roush! I know because my car is such a Roush build and it was backed by Ford and Roush. Repairs of any Roush parts was back billed to Roush and parts on the original GT were billed to Ford!

It's just too bad some guys with Roush Mustangs are so insecure as to have to do the kids club thing of "My Mustang is a Roush Mustang.... and yours isn't! Of course with Mustangs with basically Roush decals I get it. With very nice, expensive Roush Authorized warranted shop builds it makes us all sound like we are little kids trying to keep some people out of a club! Quality of a Roush should be the issue.... not where the build was done!


Anyhow, no one is going to change their mind so let's agree to disagree!
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:28 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by LilRoush View Post
I'm quoting this for special EPIC FAILURE OF FACTS.

Guess what, mine is insured as a ROUSH. In fact, both of mine were insured that way. Stop making up 'facts' to defend you point of view.
When my 2000 was stolen and stripped, it was covered as a ROUSH. When I got a check for it, it wasn't for a V6 2000 Mustang, it was for the value of damage done to a (wait for it.....) ROUSH. Why you ask? Because the wheels (even used) were of more market value than a similar year V6 Mustang. Why? Because the name means something. If it didn't, you would be so stuck on the fact that you have that name under your hood as well.

Just for fun, my SVT is the same way. I mean it's just a Ford, and there's nothing really special to call it an SVT, right? Oh wait, that serial number / build number means something. I keep forgetting that. (sarcasm)
Come on! You know better than this! Of course the model of a Mustang is included in the insurance description, or they would know what they have to replace. What I said, as you know, is there is no Roush Car manufactured. So are you telling me your insurance says Roush, BUT not Ford Mustang? State and Federal governments do not recognize Roush Automobile Manufacturer! Look it up! You are driving a Ford Mustang with Roush equipment! You just don't recognize them as a Roush if the equipment was added by an authorized dealer because you think it lowers the value of your Mustangs! It doesn't! If fact some Factory Roush cars might hurt values because of lack of performance!

My point in the whole discussion, is that owners like you have taken it on themselves to decide what is a Roush, and what is not a Roush! The variance between what the Roush Factory turns out as a modified Roush Mustang is a wide set of mods. I simply think it is petty and silly for guys with a serial numbered cars to say that is all that can be called a Roush, when some Roush Authorized Shop are doing builds far more in to the reputation of performance the Jack Roush Mustangs of old were know for! Many factory Roushs are all about being pretty and have forgotten Jack Roush Performace!



The difference is I don't think anyone should be telling any "Mustang Owner with a Ford/Roush warrantee in his hand" that is his 575 HP GT with $20,000 in Roush performance mods ...... is not a Roush and yours is just because it came from the factory with a new grill and some pretty bolt on appearance mods! [U] Ford and Roush warranted that build under contract and both Ford and Roush will stand behind that build! AND THAT MEANS IT IS A ROUSH MUSTANG FOR WARRANTEE PURPOSES BECAUSE THAT IS HOW IT IS TREATED!
(Unless they are ignorant as many are!)

Here's the real test!! If the build you have was done by an Authorized Roush Shop and warranted by both Ford and Roush, it's a Roush Mustang built at a Roush authorized dealer that will be warranted by both Ford and Roush! I know because my car is such a Roush build and it was backed by Ford and Roush. Repairs of any Roush parts was back billed to Roush and parts on the original GT were billed to Ford!

It's just too bad some guys with Roush Mustangs are so insecure as to have to do the kids club thing of "My Mustang is a Roush Mustang.... and yours isn't! Of course with Mustangs with basically Roush decals I get it. With very nice, expensive Roush Authorized warranted shop builds it makes us all sound like we are little kids trying to keep some people out of a club! Quality of a Roush should be the issue.... not where the build was done!


Anyhow, no one is going to change their mind so let's agree to disagree!
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:29 PM   #78
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5.0GTCS you make a good point. An item that is made or rarer materials, superior craftsmanship, or exclusive material then, yes, it should be valued more than a look a like of inferior materials, craftsmanship, or accessibility.

The problem is that Roush makes 99% of their car products accessible to everyone, and the other 1% comprises of badge/plaque jobs for their exclusive cars that can easily be replicated. A motivated person could make a perfect clone sans being included in Roush's Excel file that keeps track of what VINs match with cars they actually worked on.

If you use the same exact parts and assemble them in the exact specification as an original the only difference is the serial number. Roush technicians throw on a blower, upload a PCM tune, install interior upgrades, and install external body pieces all of which are available to buy via their website.

Your example is a great one, since the watch clone isn't comprised of the same rare materials or build quality. In my example the two items in question started and ended in the same regards minus the fact that Roush technicians didn't touch one of the two and assign it a number.

Prominence doesn't matter to some, but it does to others. I own an original Roush car. I didn't make my decision to buy it based on prominence but price. If a really great well documented clone came my way at a cheaper price point I probably would have bought it versus the one I have, since in essence they are exactly the same.

Going back to the OP, I hope that she can find satisfaction even if she cannot gain back what she thinks she should monetarily. I think it will be a stretch for her to get anything more.
This is spot on for all practical reasons.

If you add that the Roush OE parts installed by Roush and purchased through Roush have Serialized ID that also identify what was OE Roush installed or what was Aftermarket upgrade then you can still argue...either way its covered under a warranty backed by Roush.

OP..... if your seller can supply all the invoicing for the labor and the Roush parts.... you'll still have coverage for all the modifications.

Not a loss, but perhaps if you can get past where it was assembled and then finally modified.... you'll see you came out ahead.

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Old 03-20-2014, 05:46 PM   #79
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My point in the whole discussion, is that owners like you have taken it on themselves to decide what is a Roush, and what is not a Roush!
False. Like most of your posts this is not correct. ROUSH decided to make their cars, not the owners.

I could pick apart almost every line in your post and point out why it's wrong. You flip flop faster than I can keep track of. First your car is just like a real Roush. Then real Roushs aren't worth anything. Now actual Roush cars hurt other actual Roush cars because they lack performance. Come on.

You are the only one insecure about your car here. All you've done is start to get into personal attacks against me. Who's really the one acting like a child?

As stated form the beginning of your ranting: You have a GT with Roush parts. You have no serial number, ergo it's not a Roush. Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp?

It's just this simple:
Roush serial number = Real Roush.
No Roush serial number with Roush parts added on after the fact = Mustanng with Roush parts.


If Roush didn't want them seperated out that way, they would not put a serial number on it nor keep track of how many they make.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:50 AM   #80
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False. Like most of your posts this is not correct. ROUSH decided to make their cars, not the owners.

I could pick apart almost every line in your post and point out why it's wrong. You flip flop faster than I can keep track of. First your car is just like a real Roush. Then real Roushs aren't worth anything. Now actual Roush cars hurt other actual Roush cars because they lack performance. Come on.

You are the only one insecure about your car here. All you've done is start to get into personal attacks against me. Who's really the one acting like a child?

As stated form the beginning of your ranting: You have a GT with Roush parts. You have no serial number, ergo it's not a Roush. Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp?

It's just this simple:
Roush serial number = Real Roush.
No Roush serial number with Roush parts added on after the fact = Mustanng with Roush parts.


If Roush didn't want them seperated out that way, they would not put a serial number on it nor keep track of how many they make.
Wow! Sorry if my opinions upset you! You choose to misunderstand most everything I say and you misrepresent the points I'm making to defend your position! Defending your car is not necessary! Christianity isn't under attack either!

See if you can get the points if I try to state them clearly:

1. As I have said many, many times my Mustang is not like your Factory Roush! It is also, not a clone of a Roush Factory serial numbered car,... nor would I want it to be! Get it! Many of us don't want a Factory Roush package with an emphasis on body and trim modifications! We want a Authorized Shop Roush with all the "performance modifications and warrantee" that retains the stock Ford Mustang Body. Roush fills that product with the Authorized Roush Shop! (NOT a Ford Dealer!)

2. Roush does not make a car..... period! It simply customizes Ford manufactured Mustangs! According to the Federal Government, Roush is not a car manufacturer, nor does it claim to be. Roush serial numbers denote a Mustang modified (not manufactured) by Roush! The fact that Roush issues serial numbers to cars modified in packages in the Roush Factory is marketing likely to protect the secondary buyer from clones by lesser quality by crooks! Therefore "Buyer beware" if you want to buy a Roush Factory package and check the serial number for sure.

3. Ford Mustangs are also modified by Authorized Roush Shops under Roush specs. and with a Roush/Ford warrantee. Ford will honor these Roush builds in every way, then back charging Roush for costs related to Roush modifications such as a failure of the supercharger.

Again, Roush "customizes" already manufactured automobiles. It does not manufacture a Roush automobile! A Roush is not a type of car, but a Ford Mustang customized by the Roush Company. Federal and State law does not consider Roush and automobile manufacturer.

SO, DOES THIS MEAN THE ONLY TYPE OF "ROUSH CUSTOMIZATION" IS THE ONE FROM THE ROUSH FACTORY WITH A SERIAL NUMBER? I SAY, "NO!"

I maintain that if both Ford and Roush honor these sometimes very extensive builds done by a "Roush Authorized Shop" with a Ford/Roush warrantee than they are a Roush Mustang simply of a different type than a Roush from a serial numbered factory build. The owners of these Roush/Ford warranted Mustangs quality builds should not be criticized if they refer to their car as a Roush. Of course they should not claim they are a factory Roush serial numbered Mustang especially for resale purpose as they are not!

I suggest you would feel quite different if you had bought a brand new Mustang GT and an Authorized Roush Shop had done $15,000 to $20,000. of Roush modifications with a Ford/Roush warrantee and he was told he could not call his car a Roush! The negative approach of calling such builds "Just a Mustang with some Roush parts on it"..... could also be applied to a Factory Roush Mustang since Roush does not manufacture a car! It simply modifies an already manufactured car. They just do a much better job than a lot of other customizers you can find on cable TV shows and at SEMA!

(It's just this simple: If Ford and Roush accept the warrantees of these Authorized Roush Shop builds as they do, then they are a Roush! The warrantee is the proof of that fact! You don't get that kind of warrantee if you simply put some Roush parts and decals on you car in your own garage!)

The terms "Factory Built Roush" with serial number" and "Authorized Shop Built Roush with documentation" would be far more accurate, honest and respectful to Mustang owners! No one with half a brain will mix up the two terms if they do just a little research.

We should concentrate on respecting each others cars and choices rather than creating a hierarchy of Roush Mustangs based on resale values or where they were built! If you don't understand this post... I give up and see you at the Cruise Night! Life's Too Short!

I'm throwing down my microphone and turning off the theatre lights!
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:50 AM
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