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Rachael427R 10-28-2013 11:51 AM

Factory Roush vs. Roush Clone--Buyer Beware?
 
I recently purchased a Roush 427R from a private seller. He advertised it as a factory Roush (purchased as stock GT then sent to Roush for factory conversion) and titled it as a Roush 427R on the bill of sale. Turns out it is not in fact a factory Roush (missing badges and serial numbers), but rather he purchased all the top of the line Roush parts and had a mechanic do all the work. So in other words, I purchased a Roush clone under the pretense it was factory. Before I spend a ton of money consulting an attorney, is it false advertising to call a Roush clone a "Roush 427R" without mentioning the word "clone" or "replica"? Is it legally a Roush? To me it should have been advertised as a clone but it wasn't. I wouldn't have paid as much for it if it was advertised as a clone. Do you all think I have a case, or is this a case of "buyer beware"?

kenthicken 10-28-2013 12:43 PM

I hate to read this - so sorry to hear. Merely adding the Roush parts does not make it a 427R. The VIN would have been registered with Roush, there would be badges in the engine compartment, etc., etc. (as you said). It's not a real one, no matter what the previous owner did to it.

Hate to be an "internet attorney," but my two cents as a non-attorney is, if you bought the car with the understanding it was a legit 427R, and it was listed on the Bill of Sale, then you may have a case for misrepresentation or fraud. I would be very pissed if I were you, and I would hold onto that Bill of Sale listing it as a 427R, since that is your support for a lawsuit.

What it comes down to is, how much you are willing to spend to pursue this? Attorneys fees will add up. What is it worth to you? Talk to an attorney at the very least. The seller may respond to a threatening letter and this whole issue could be resolved in your favor. Just a suggestion.

Again... speaking as a "non-attorney."

Rachael427R 10-28-2013 01:41 PM

Thanks kenthicken. I understand that the replies here will likely all be from non-attorneys, however I appreciate any and all pieces of advice.

A few weeks ago I did email Roush and they could not verify the VIN#. I have this email in my records with Roush stating that "the vehicle was not built as a authentic serialized ROUSH vehicle. Any upgrades were done after market." I regret not doing this research before (hence my question of "buyer beware"), however I bought the car under the false pretense that the seller sent the car to the factory for conversion, and it's listed on the bill of sale as a Roush 427R with no mention of it being a clone or replica. I agree that this is my strongest piece of support for a lawsuit.

As far as how much I'm willing to spend...I really don't know. I've never needed legal help before. I don't want to lose anymore money. The whole reason I'm seeking legal help in the first place is because I feel like I overpaid for a car I was led to believe was authentic. But, if I win I would get some sort of monetary winnings that could go towards attorney fees. I just don't know how much I would win vs. how much I'd owe the attorney. I agree that a threatening letter may do the trick. I've personally sent several emails and letters to the seller, and at this point he is calling my bluff and pretty much daring me to take him to court.

Derf00 10-28-2013 01:53 PM

Do you have a copy of the ad they used for the car? That is the only way to really tell....

Rachael427R 10-28-2013 02:13 PM

Yes, I have a copy of the ad as well as issues of magazines the seller entered the car in--all stating that he had the car sent to the Roush factory for an official conversion.

Derf00 10-28-2013 02:20 PM

There you go then...conversion is the key word.

A regular Roush is not advertised as a conversion. It's advertised as just a Roush and sold through dealers (when new). The reason is that Roush has the cars factory delivered from the Ford assembly plant directly to their facility to go through the mod process. That's how they are able serialize them and tie the VIN and Serial number together. That's the only "official" way to do it.

After digging around a bit more.... Did the person say they sent it to Roush themselves for the conversion? how exactly did the car get the upgrade/mods done? My understanding is that Roush will not modify someone's private vehicle, only new ones owned by Ford dealerships or Ford, and all of those are serialized.

That may be your case.... they did an aftermarket conversion without any actual input from Roush, the fact the car is not serialized means it's not recognized as a Roush, but rather as a clone car, again Roush doesn't recognize those and they lied about sending it to Roush for a conversion. Contact Roush direct and get the exact details of their process so they can answer your questions.

How much was the car?

Rachael427R 10-28-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derf00 (Post 8301365)
There you go then...conversion is the key word.

A regular Roush is not advertised as a conversion. It's advertised as just a Roush and sold through dealers (when new). The reason is that Roush has the cars factory delivered from the Ford assembly plant directly to their facility to go through the mod process. That's how they are able serialize them and tie the VIN and Serial number together. That's the only "official" way to do it.

After digging around a bit more.... Did the person say they sent it to Roush themselves for the conversion? how exactly did the car get the upgrade/mods done? My understanding is that Roush will not modify someone's private vehicle, only new ones owned by dealerships or Ford and all of those are serialized.

That may be your case.... they did an aftermarket conversion without any actual input from Roush, the fact the car is not serialized means it's not recognized as a Roush, but rather as a clone car, again Roush doesn't recognize those and they lied about sending it to Roush for a conversion. Contact Roush direct and get the exact details of their process so they can answer your questions.

How much was the car?

I was told that he purchased the car brand new from Len Stoler as a stock GT and it was sent straight from the dealership to Roush for the conversion. I've contacted Len Stoler and they have no record of this transaction other than the initial purchase. I learned that the seller even tried to later sell it back to Len Stoler who was initially interested until they learned the car was not in fact genuine. Roush has no record of my car's VIN#. So it seems that the seller purchased the car new then had a shop do the aftermarket conversion. Roush did confirm that it is not recognized as a Roush. I will take your advise and get some sort of documentation from Roush detailing their process.

It is an automatic 2007 convertible with 31,000 miles at time of purchase for $24,000. I know this is less than what factory Roushes are selling for on average, but still more than what I believe a modified GT with Roush parts is worth...

LilRoush 10-28-2013 06:20 PM

I'm sorry to hear about this!! Lawyer up for sure!!

Techincally the Roush Mustang is refered to as a 'converstion' since it is done after the VIN related build by Ford. However, you have a great foundation to fight from.

With today's Mustangs, no cars are bought as 'stock' then sent to Roush. They all go right to Roush, then sold as Roush from the dealer. Way back when, Roush did have authorized build locations to help cover builds. My '98 was built by a Roush authorized builder. My '00 was built by them, then sent to the dealer where I bought it.

Let me know if there is anything I can help with from the stand point of what a 'real' Roush is vs a copy/clone/fake.

kenthicken 10-28-2013 10:38 PM

I believe once Roush does the conversion, they are listed as the "Manufacturer of Record," meaning it is technically no longer a "Ford" but a "Roush."

Can you list the options on the car? Roushcharger, suspension, seats, brakes (big or factory), wheels, gauges, etc., etc.? Reason I am asking is, I just ran the value of your car on NADA Guides (using Baltimore for the ZIP code), and it says that a clean 2007 GT convertible with 31,000 miles is worth $18,825 at retail. If this guy added all the correct 427R mods, especially the blower, then the price you paid is actually not bad with all the mods included.

True, it's not a real 427R, but what it comes down to is, it may be you got the car for a fair price (if not a slight overpay). If you got all the goodies, you may not be far off on the money.

A true 427R is a Mustang with about $20K worth of stuff on it from the factory (mine was $49K new, factory Ford sticker was $28K), so after six years, depreciation and all, $6K for all the same stuff is not bad... if this guy did everything.

Anyway, something to think about. If you do decide to go forward, get all your ducks in a row from Roush, the dealership you mentioned, etc. May want to consider small claims... no attorney needed.

427Roush 10-29-2013 12:16 AM

Purchased my 2007 Roush 427R in 2008. It came with both the Ford GT sticker and the Roush invoice of upgrades.
These cars currently sell between $22k-$30k from private Seller's. If you paid $24k that's really not a bad price, especially for a Vert.
I know there was misrepresentation on the Seller's part but attorney fees could be cost prohibitive.
I suggest that if you like the car, keep it. It's a Roush clone and that's ok. I'm sure it's still a fun car that gets a lot of looks and drives great.
These cars are not listed in KBB and resale value is minimal.
My friend has a 2007 427R with 10,000 miles and is selling it for $27k.
The 428Rs and 429Rs sell for slightly higher. The Black Jacks and P51s higher still and the 427R Trak Paks are probably the most sought after because of their handling upgrades for HPDE track use.
If it really bothers you and you're after justice then I personally would gather as much information as possible and threaten to sue the Seller to try to recoup some money or file in Small Claims Court Good Luck.


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