LS1 - Page 11

ThisBlood147 · 11-24-2006, 11:45 PM

From all I've heard it looks like GM just got a bit lazy and played a funny numbers game with the different LS1 F-bodies to make ppl feel justified in spending the extra money for the "higher end" models. I know they did offer some minor performance improvements via exhaust and suspension.....but not enough to justify some of the markups I used to see. Back in 2000 I went with my best friend to a dealership to look at the Camaros and they had the Z's stickered at 23K and an SS stickered at 30K. My buddy (despite being diehard GM) didn't realize the small differences between the two models and refused to settle for the Z28 (thinking that the SS must be leaps and bounds faster). Now he kicks himself because they were close to being the same in performance, if not the exact same. Too bad now he can't afford even a used one.

Live and learn...

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stanger88 · 11-25-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

From all I've heard it looks like GM just got a bit lazy and played a funny numbers game with the different LS1 F-bodies to make ppl feel justified in spending the extra money for the "higher end" models. I know they did offer some minor performance improvements via exhaust and suspension.....but not enough to justify some of the markups I used to see. Back in 2000 I went with my best friend to a dealership to look at the Camaros and they had the Z's stickered at 23K and an SS stickered at 30K. My buddy (despite being diehard GM) didn't realize the small differences between the two models and refused to settle for the Z28 (thinking that the SS must be leaps and bounds faster). Now he kicks himself because they were close to being the same in performance, if not the exact same. Too bad now he can't afford even a used one.

Live and learn...

Thats like saying a F150 XL is just as good as an F150 Lariat becuase they tow the same. The SS has leather, better sound, power everything, more exclusivity, ect. ect. ect. For 23K that Z must have been an auto with cloth.

Granted, I belive the fastest BONE STOCK F-body was a 98 Z28 stripper 6-speed. Ran 12.8X or something.

JD1969 · 11-25-2006, 02:22 AM

I have an SS with no leather. They were able to be optioned pretty much anyway a Z was.

stanger88 · 11-25-2006, 03:44 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: JD1969

I have an SS with no leather. They were able to be optioned pretty much anyway a Z was.

Not a $30,000 SS and not a $23,000 Z28...

ThisBlood147 · 11-25-2006, 06:31 AM

Well it wasn't because of interior options or looks that my friend held off on getting a Z over an SS........he believed the SS was a significantly faster car. I, not knowing much about them myself at the time, thought the same. Of course, I wasn't looking to by one either.

Because I research the hell out of a car before I go shopping for one.

So I'm not saying there may not have been a significant amount of options to warrant some of the higher price......but the higher price coupled with the mystique that the SS would murder a Z28 stock for stock is what duped alot of ppl like my friend. Maybe GM was coddling the Corvette guys with the dodgy HP ratings..........or they felt they were helping ppl with getting reasonable insurance......but they really did mislead alot of ppl about the performance differences (or lack thereof) between some of their LS1 F-body models.

JD1969 · 11-25-2006, 12:54 PM

I hear what you are saying, but I consider that to be the fault of the buyer. It's not like GM is the only one to ever mess with HP ratings, I remember a certain year Cobra that Ford overrated yet made way less power. We (LS1 guys) knew about the BS ratings right away.

TommyV8 · 11-25-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: slims00ls1z28

My stripper Z with an Auto and 2.73's will match most of the SS's around here and beat quite a few. If I run up against an auto SS they are toast. I've never seen an Auto WS6 but there might be a few out there.

Mine trapped high 104's stock (Memphis humidity sux and I think is just as bad if not worse than high elevations) and I am trapping high 106's and low 107's depending on how much I spin (the more I spin out the hole so far have been my higher trap speeds) and I have relatively smallish bolt on list as far as actual power enhancement goes but have dismal 2.02 (best) 60' and traction limited 13.2's and 3's.

Auto vettes suck compared to Fbodies.

My 2.73-geared t-top auto is also a "stripper," no power options, leather, cruise, fog lights, traction control, or even a trunk release. It ran 13.52 stock, 2.11 60 ft. Not exactly great for an LS1. My g/f's first Z, a 2.73-geared hardtop auto with all the options except leather ran 13.36 (better 60 ft though). I trapped 105.79 stock with pretty good weather, the DA was probably just above sea level, and now 106.71 in warm (not too hot) weather with just the lid and cutout.
Vettes are definitely faster, maybe a coupla tenths all else being equal. They weigh considerably less and have the same drivetrain.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

From all I've heard it looks like GM just got a bit lazy and played a funny numbers game with the different LS1 F-bodies to make ppl feel justified in spending the extra money for the "higher end" models. I know they did offer some minor performance improvements via exhaust and suspension.....but not enough to justify some of the markups I used to see. Back in 2000 I went with my best friend to a dealership to look at the Camaros and they had the Z's stickered at 23K and an SS stickered at 30K. My buddy (despite being diehard GM) didn't realize the small differences between the two models and refused to settle for the Z28 (thinking that the SS must be leaps and bounds faster). Now he kicks himself because they were close to being the same in performance, if not the exact same. Too bad now he can't afford even a used one.

Live and learn...

You are correct in all of the above.

stanger88 · 11-25-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: JD1969

I hear what you are saying, but I consider that to be the fault of the buyer. It's not like GM is the only one to ever mess with HP ratings, I remember a certain year Cobra that Ford overrated yet made way less power. We (LS1 guys) knew about the BS ratings right away.

Come on. 10-20hp isnt much at all (I know, its not REAL, but its rated at about 20hp more). Seriously, thats a lid/cat-back. I think it is the fault of the buyer as well for thinking 10-20hp would make a huge difference. I feel bad for him that he didnt even get that though. HOWEVER, they did a test on air mass in g coming through the MAf with a hypertech datalogger setup and discovered ram air in 3rd gear in the midrange on a 97 WS6 IS WORTH about 5-8whp. Hehe

I have links if anyone cares to PM me, its just on LS1tech and I dont feel like hunting for it.

ThisBlood147 · 11-25-2006, 02:54 PM

Well, as I said......my friend isn't the "sharpest" guy when it comes to buying cars. Hell, he's saving up for the new Camaro when they come out...........thinks the top of the line model (whether that's the SS or not) will come off the show floor putting 500hp to the back wheels, AND it will only cost about 30K.

I'm like.....DUDE, even the Z06 doesn't put 500 to the back tire off the factory floor........and that car stickers for over 60K. But he insists he knows better. He's just gonna set himself up for disappointment again via poor research. A sad state of affairs indeed when his mustang owning best friend knows more about his beloved Camaros than he does. He didn't even know what the LS7 was until I told him about it.[sm=insomnia.gif]

So its my understanding that there were a few LS1 F-body buyers were taken in by GM's HP number finangling.....unfortunately.

slims00ls1z28 · 11-27-2006, 01:19 AM

Auto vettes I've seen sucked, no better times than an Fbody. My first "kill" was a c5 (don't know exactly what year he wouldnt stop), White auto. Ran him 3x times 2 from a roll one at like 20 mph one at 40 mph and the other from a stop. I won all 3. Let out at like 110 which is a little more than I trap so roughly a 1/4. He was well behind like 2 or 3 cars everytime and wasnt gaining so he let out. The last run I shifted manually and hit the limiter going into second and he caught up to like my bumper then I pulled him again. All I had was K&N filter and muffler cut off going over the axle. Don't know what he had other than some Z06 rims on it (knew it wasnt a Z06 though) but obviously not enough. Vettes dont weigh that much less as they are listed as 3246 curb. I weighed mine at the dump scales with me in it (205 lb) both kids (maybe 100 between them) and 1/2 tank of gas and the scale said 3606. C5's are heavier than youd think.