M&H drag radials.. disapointing results

[Stone629]

He's already pulled a 13.5 at 4000 ft. Down here, that car could run a 13.0-13.2. Thats unstalled. With a 4k stall, I stand firm that he could pull a 12.6+. I agree with you on the bolt on thing. Thats why I only did gears, sts, and a tune this time around for performance. If I do anything else, it'll be significant. Damn, I hope we didn't just start a huge multi page debate, lol!

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[Grabber]

Originally Posted by Stone629

He's already pulled a 13.5 at 4000 ft. Down here, that car could run a 13.0-13.2. Thats unstalled. With a 4k stall, I stand firm that he could pull a 12.6+. I agree with you on the bolt on thing. Thats why I only did gears, sts, and a tune this time around for performance. If I do anything else, it'll be significant.

Damn, I hope we didn't just start a huge multi page debate, lol!

I am sure we may have. Although, experience comes from actual racing and modding yourself, not magazine racing and racing with DA Calculators and all that crap.

If you remember Caution,(haven't seen him post here in a while) He was a really good driver, and only managed a 12.5 with full bolt ons, manual, and 4.56 gears, in CA weather and DA. So, that is why I am saying a GT with a couple of bolt-ons, in that type of weather, would not run mid-high 12's without more mods, i.e Stall, maybe headers, etc.

I also think the DA calculating is somewhat inaccurate seeing as, you are only calculating the DA as if your car was run at a track with lower/higher DA. However, EVERY and I mean EVERY track is setup differently, and DA is not the only factor to calculate. You have to consider Atmospheric pressure, DA, track elevation, etc. Anyhow, I will be quiet now. I am just giving my opinion. I know there is more in the car, but a 12.6 without full bolt-ons is far-fetched to me. I also say this, because in Chicago, where the weather gets to be very cool, and DA usually around 500 or so, Full Bolt-on GT's being auto are not running that far into the 12's. The power and TQ is not there. Maybe under completely perfect conditions, then yes.

Sorry for the long rant.

[Riptide]

?

Atmospheric pressure and elevation are part of what goes into calculating the DA.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by Riptide

?

Atmospheric pressure and elevation are part of what goes into calculating the DA.

It's not 100% accurate though. It is only a Calculation, and an Estimate to what your car CAN run in Normal DA/Weather Conditions. Track Prep is not calculated. Since IL has Several Tracks, out of them all, there are only 3 That actually have good prep, and out of the 3, only 2 have Great Prep 9/10 times each open track day.

Here is my calculation. I tested this through the official site, so to say.

At 4500DA, ET of 12.9, and MPH of 113, my corrected would be 12.6 @ 115. That is for my Cobra, Stock, with High DA. Here is a GT. It is unheard of to see a mediocre driver running mid 12's in a Stock Cobra, and trapping higher than ANYONE has ever trapped with a Stock Cobra.

DA of 4500, ET of 14.1(Pulled From Mishri's time I believe), MPH of 105, corrected DA time would be 13.3 @ 111. DO YOU SEE A MILDLY MODDED GT TRAPPING 111 and Running bottom 13's? I have never seen one trap 110+ without Full Bolt-ons and a hell of a tune without 1.8-1.9 60fts.

Sorry for Caps, but this made me ROFLCOPTER! The DA Calculator is not at all accurate.

[Riptide]

I'm not trying to start a debate over it's accuracy or lack thereof.

Just confused with your sentence there because those two factors are part of what go into a DA calculcation yet the way that came off it seemed like you were making them out to be separate.

The DA calc is a scenario in which track prep doesn't matter because the number produced assumes equal track conditions. IE, as if you were running the same track in both locations.

But w/e. I digress...

[Stone629]

S197s seem to be able to pull good ETs, high 12s and such with intake/tune, gears, but have low trap speeds. Members on here have done it with their manuals. So no, they don't make all that much power/torque, but are still somehow able to get to the other end pretty quick with a few proven mods. HP/TQ numbers are overrated to a point.

I can't really get too in depth about the automatic S197s being that I've never owned one. The only autos I have experience with are the Mach, LS1 Z28, and a LS1 GTO. But I do know that autos generally get down the 1/4 faster than manuals once modded right.... and a stall, gears, and DRs are the key mods for an automatic imo. A 12.6 may be a stretch, but high 12s are right there for a car modded like Mishri's with a stall. Ok, I'm done.

[stealth_GT]

I'd have to say it's due to the gearing (4.10s) that the autos can run such good ETs with relatively few mods.. though my trap speed is low (most likely due to making less power), my ET has been 13.3s (very consistent) as the best all summer.

I am real confident that I should be able to run 12.9(at least) with the addition of a 3k stall, DRs on 17s... sea level, great track prep on competition days, clear/cool weather.

[Mishri]

Originally Posted by Grabber

It's not 100% accurate though. It is only a Calculation, and an Estimate to what your car CAN run in Normal DA/Weather Conditions. Track Prep is not calculated. Since IL has Several Tracks, out of them all, there are only 3 That actually have good prep, and out of the 3, only 2 have Great Prep 9/10 times each open track day.

Here is my calculation. I tested this through the official site, so to say.

At 4500DA, ET of 12.9, and MPH of 113, my corrected would be 12.6 @ 115. That is for my Cobra, Stock, with High DA. Here is a GT. It is unheard of to see a mediocre driver running mid 12's in a Stock Cobra, and trapping higher than ANYONE has ever trapped with a Stock Cobra.

DA of 4500, ET of 14.1(Pulled From Mishri's time I believe), MPH of 105, corrected DA time would be 13.3 @ 111. DO YOU SEE A MILDLY MODDED GT TRAPPING 111 and Running bottom 13's? I have never seen one trap 110+ without Full Bolt-ons and a hell of a tune without 1.8-1.9 60fts.

Sorry for Caps, but this made me ROFLCOPTER! The DA Calculator is not at all accurate.

I think you mistook something.. re-read this:

Mods are in the sig, on stock tires I ran a best of 13.5@102mph DA of 4200 ft corrected down to a 12.8@108mph. 2.0 60ft

switched to M&H Drag Radials 275 on 17" stock rims.

1st run 2.43 60ft 14.198@100.67 DA of 5590 = 13.2@108mph
2nd run 2.27 60ft 14.07@99.94 DA of 5396 = 13.1@107
3rd run 2.34 60ft 14.150@99.75 DA of 5298 = 13.2@106

my mph at 14.1 was 99mph.. not 105.. hehe correct to 111mph trap would be nice but 107 sounds reasonable to me and is what the calculators i use give me..


and just to clear the air on the stall thing.. Brenspeed told my friend who has bought A LOT of things from them.. multiple blowers and engines and other mods.. said not to bother stalling his automatic that it wouldn't help him and that there are no good Torque converters for the s197.. now this was over a year ago.. maybe something has changed, but back then in their testing it didn't help. and that could have been just his particular setup.. at the time he was discussing it i believe he had the stock engine with a stage 4 saleen s/c, blower cams, shorty headers and driveshaft.

his latest pass with a techo s/c and a saleen 3v engine tuned by himself he went 11.4@126 on the night i went.. I might be buying that S/C from him.. he is switching to a turbo.. 575rwhp just isn't enough for him..


another note on the DA.. I think the calculations are very accurate if i run consitently (and my car does run very consitently when i launch the same way on the same tires) the different DAs calculating down have been the same.. obviously something in the calculations are right.. and if you look, 2.4 60ft resulted in a corrected time .4 slower than my 2.0 60ft and that has always been the case in my car.. et changes by .1 for each .1 in my 60ft..

could I get a corrected 12.6 with the DRs? yes.. if i can get my 60ft down to a 1.8 then yes.. i think i can do it.. to get that real slip i'll have to go drive for 1000 miles and go on a nice cool day..

DA uses humidty, pressure, tempreture and elevation.. so it takes everything into consideration. Track Prep is different but you should usually see that in your 60ft.. your slip itself accounts for track prep.. and i dont think anybody would argue too much as long as you made a reasonable claim.. like i did a 13.0 with good da but bad prep i think it has a 12.8 or .9 in it..

[HaneyMotorsport.Com]

ALSO remember every car is going to run/have different #s depending on the DA. For example, in general, a forced inducted car will not be affected as much as a n/a car.

I have never looked or used any DA calculator to "calculate" what run times would be at a lower DA. It is not going to be accurate.....close prediction maybe.

When I used to run a Super Comp door slammer ( NHRA sportsman class ... run on an 8.90 index ), we would always be reading weather conditions, track temp, etc. and recording them with every run. This allowed us to make educated throttle stop and tire pressure adjustments to run a 8.90.

So bottom line, a "corrected DA" run time is only going to be an estimate. Log enough weather conditions/runs, then you can probably calculate YOUR car's numbers.

p.s. track prep and temp, 60ft. , etc. also play into it.
Casey

[Mishri]

prep is important.. and many people have said that our track has excellent prep and were telling me when i went that their cars were hooking awesome... so obviously something wrong with what I was doing.