SCCA Autocross Event
05-03-2010, 09:10 AM
#1
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Merritt Island, FL
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SCCA Autocross Event
Well, I am usually a drag strip guy, but I saw on another forum that an autocross event was gonna be held at Daytona International Speedway, so I decided to give it a try. It was my first time doing an autocross event, and it was awesome! I ended up placing 11 of 31 which isn't too bad IMO. If you haven't tried taking your car to a track that has some corners to carve, I suggest doing it. It was a blast!
Anyways, here's some vids!
Video #1
Video #2
Anyways, here's some vids!
Video #1
Video #2
Last edited by JasperGT; 05-03-2010 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Can't figure photobucket out!!! Ignore the pictures.
05-03-2010, 01:56 PM
#3
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
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Stop riding your brakes through the turns. :P It kills all kinds of time/speed and makes the car a real handful to control.
You want to try and get ALL of your braking and downshifting done before you enter a turn, and as you just begin to turn in, transition from braking into the throttle....give it just enough throttle to maintain your speed THROUGH the turn. At that point you should be basically cruising through the turn near the limit of your available traction. As you're coming out and start to straighten up begin rolling back into the throttle so that by the time you've straightened out you're at WOT again. Rinse and repeat. Driving smoothly with precision will yield MUCH faster times than driving aggressively and trying to manhandle the car.
The reason for that, is that a tire only has so much available traction. You can either use ALL of your traction for braking, ALL of it for accelerating, or ALL of it for turning. BUT, when you turn AND brake, you're forcing the front wheels to use SOME traction for braking AND SOME traction for turning, but you do neither one as well as if it were done individually. When you brake in a straight line you brake more effectively than while you turn and brake, so you can hold speed in a straight longer and brake later and more effectively. When you turn without braking you have more traction to hold lateral acceleration, so you can go through a turn at a higher speed than when you turn and brake at the same time. That's why you may notice that as you enter a turn hot and try to slow down and get on the brakes hard, that the car understeers....it's cuz you're robbing traction from the front that could be used to turn in order to brake.
Also keep in mind that on a road/street type racing environment you'll be operating over a MUCH wider rpm range than at a strip. So don't be scared if you find yourself running as low as 2,500-3,000rpm. Depending on your skill level, time lost shifting down an extra gear and then shifting up again to try and maintain higher rpm, may not be worth it. Especially if you don't have enough skill to drive the car the way it needs to be driven to keep the revs up that high. It's a lot easier to use just a few gears over a wide rpm range than it is to use a lot of gears over a narrow rpm range.
If you drive like that and run the same course with the same people you may go from 11 out of 31 to the top 5, or even the top 3 depending on how good other drivers are and how fast their cars are. Get the proper technique down first and you'll find how much easier the car seems to go around the track. Worry about refining the technique and getting more aggressive later.
But otherwise, yeah, racing with turns I think is a LOT more fun.
You want to try and get ALL of your braking and downshifting done before you enter a turn, and as you just begin to turn in, transition from braking into the throttle....give it just enough throttle to maintain your speed THROUGH the turn. At that point you should be basically cruising through the turn near the limit of your available traction. As you're coming out and start to straighten up begin rolling back into the throttle so that by the time you've straightened out you're at WOT again. Rinse and repeat. Driving smoothly with precision will yield MUCH faster times than driving aggressively and trying to manhandle the car.
The reason for that, is that a tire only has so much available traction. You can either use ALL of your traction for braking, ALL of it for accelerating, or ALL of it for turning. BUT, when you turn AND brake, you're forcing the front wheels to use SOME traction for braking AND SOME traction for turning, but you do neither one as well as if it were done individually. When you brake in a straight line you brake more effectively than while you turn and brake, so you can hold speed in a straight longer and brake later and more effectively. When you turn without braking you have more traction to hold lateral acceleration, so you can go through a turn at a higher speed than when you turn and brake at the same time. That's why you may notice that as you enter a turn hot and try to slow down and get on the brakes hard, that the car understeers....it's cuz you're robbing traction from the front that could be used to turn in order to brake.
Also keep in mind that on a road/street type racing environment you'll be operating over a MUCH wider rpm range than at a strip. So don't be scared if you find yourself running as low as 2,500-3,000rpm. Depending on your skill level, time lost shifting down an extra gear and then shifting up again to try and maintain higher rpm, may not be worth it. Especially if you don't have enough skill to drive the car the way it needs to be driven to keep the revs up that high. It's a lot easier to use just a few gears over a wide rpm range than it is to use a lot of gears over a narrow rpm range.
If you drive like that and run the same course with the same people you may go from 11 out of 31 to the top 5, or even the top 3 depending on how good other drivers are and how fast their cars are. Get the proper technique down first and you'll find how much easier the car seems to go around the track. Worry about refining the technique and getting more aggressive later.
But otherwise, yeah, racing with turns I think is a LOT more fun.
05-03-2010, 04:52 PM
#4
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Thanks for the pointers! I know about all that tire can only do one thing effectively at a time. Much easier said than done! lol! My times went down consistently. First run was mid 53 seconds, followed by a high 50 second run, then a 49.7 second run, with the final run being a 49.4 second run. At least I was improving the entire time!
The way the course was setup, I was in second gear the whole time (aside from the start). The only part that I could get to 3rd would be at the very end, but it didn't make sense to shift.
The way the course was setup, I was in second gear the whole time (aside from the start). The only part that I could get to 3rd would be at the very end, but it didn't make sense to shift.
05-03-2010, 05:27 PM
#5
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Shaving 4 seconds off a course that short is actually pretty good.
And yeah, knowing and doing are 2 separate things. A lot of it is just driving habits that you need to break. You get used to braking and turning at the same time when driving normally, so you have a sense of when to turn/brake based on your speed that's substantially less than optimal for a race course.
The next time you go out, don't worry about your times AT ALL. Just focus on braking in a straight line as late as you can. Start off easy and work your way up until you're nearly at the limits of your stopping power to bleed off speed before entering the turn. Also focus on turning without braking or acceling(just maintaining speed in the turn), make a rapid transition from braking to throttle right as you start turning in, and just cruise through the turn. Again, start off easy and feel your way up to higher speeds through the turn. Then focus on rolling fast back into the throttle as you come out of the turn, again, taking it easy and working your way up to find the point where you can start acceling soonest without compromising stability.
You'll find the car will seem to drive VERY differently when you do that and the performance limits will seem to be MUCH higher. Even taking it easily and feeling it out driving that way to get used to the style change, you'll find that without trying to go faster you'll have quicker lap times. Remember that a turn can be broken into 3 distinct parts, entry, the turn itself, and exit. Each 1 is an individual part that can be dealt with individually(not doing too many things at once) that when done properly blends into the next part of the turn.
Start off easy with each part and feel your way up, focus on the technique and not the speed. Getting the technique right, even is doing it slowly, will make the car more stable and quicker around the course. As your feel improves the car will get faster and faster. Then you can start to worry about following a better line and putting all 3 parts together at faster speeds.
And also keep in mind that on courses with turns, carrying speed through the turn is the most important part. The "3 parts to a turn" is all about learning to carry the most speed into, through and out of a turn. The idea is so that you enter the next straight with more mph and can cover the most ground in the least time. And also the most important turn on any course, is usually the one leading to the longest straight, since that's where you make up the most ground in the least time. So feel the course out and find the line and entry/exit points that work best for you on that most important turn to carry the best mph going into the longest straight.
As far as gears, yeah, you'll find most "large"(aka American) V8 cars only use a few gears on most courses. Say only 2nd and 3rd, or only 3rd and 4th. If that course worked best for you in only second, then just stay in that gear the whole time, and once your technique gets better and you carry enough speed into that final part, you may actually benefit from the upshift into 3rd.
Anyway, just some things to think about to help improve your technique. It's actually not hard to do once you focus on it a few times, you'll immediately feel the change in the way the car runs and get used to it pretty quickly. But yeah, racing on courses with turns is definitely a total blast. And not to take anything away from drag racing(specially in higher powered cars that can be a handful), but I just don't think anything compares to racing on road/street courses.
And yeah, knowing and doing are 2 separate things. A lot of it is just driving habits that you need to break. You get used to braking and turning at the same time when driving normally, so you have a sense of when to turn/brake based on your speed that's substantially less than optimal for a race course.
The next time you go out, don't worry about your times AT ALL. Just focus on braking in a straight line as late as you can. Start off easy and work your way up until you're nearly at the limits of your stopping power to bleed off speed before entering the turn. Also focus on turning without braking or acceling(just maintaining speed in the turn), make a rapid transition from braking to throttle right as you start turning in, and just cruise through the turn. Again, start off easy and feel your way up to higher speeds through the turn. Then focus on rolling fast back into the throttle as you come out of the turn, again, taking it easy and working your way up to find the point where you can start acceling soonest without compromising stability.
You'll find the car will seem to drive VERY differently when you do that and the performance limits will seem to be MUCH higher. Even taking it easily and feeling it out driving that way to get used to the style change, you'll find that without trying to go faster you'll have quicker lap times. Remember that a turn can be broken into 3 distinct parts, entry, the turn itself, and exit. Each 1 is an individual part that can be dealt with individually(not doing too many things at once) that when done properly blends into the next part of the turn.
Start off easy with each part and feel your way up, focus on the technique and not the speed. Getting the technique right, even is doing it slowly, will make the car more stable and quicker around the course. As your feel improves the car will get faster and faster. Then you can start to worry about following a better line and putting all 3 parts together at faster speeds.
And also keep in mind that on courses with turns, carrying speed through the turn is the most important part. The "3 parts to a turn" is all about learning to carry the most speed into, through and out of a turn. The idea is so that you enter the next straight with more mph and can cover the most ground in the least time. And also the most important turn on any course, is usually the one leading to the longest straight, since that's where you make up the most ground in the least time. So feel the course out and find the line and entry/exit points that work best for you on that most important turn to carry the best mph going into the longest straight.
As far as gears, yeah, you'll find most "large"(aka American) V8 cars only use a few gears on most courses. Say only 2nd and 3rd, or only 3rd and 4th. If that course worked best for you in only second, then just stay in that gear the whole time, and once your technique gets better and you carry enough speed into that final part, you may actually benefit from the upshift into 3rd.
Anyway, just some things to think about to help improve your technique. It's actually not hard to do once you focus on it a few times, you'll immediately feel the change in the way the car runs and get used to it pretty quickly. But yeah, racing on courses with turns is definitely a total blast. And not to take anything away from drag racing(specially in higher powered cars that can be a handful), but I just don't think anything compares to racing on road/street courses.
05-03-2010, 06:09 PM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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There is a mini-prix coming up in two weeks that I plan on attending. Hopefully I can use at least some of the pointers you gave.
I was trying not to brake during the turns, but I definitely was. Of course, I didn't find out until after I was done racing and I saw the videos. It is just such a weird feeling that I'll have to overcome.
Thanks again for the tips! I will have to try them out at my next event.
I was trying not to brake during the turns, but I definitely was. Of course, I didn't find out until after I was done racing and I saw the videos. It is just such a weird feeling that I'll have to overcome.
Thanks again for the tips! I will have to try them out at my next event.
05-03-2010, 08:39 PM
#7
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Haha, yeah, like I said, habits are hard to break. I used to do the same thing a lot myself, and on occasion still do. Think of it like this, when you start to turn the wheel, you should be off the brakes before you get to about 1/8th turn of the steering wheel. Part of it too is you just have to feel the car out and getter a better sense of when and where to brake. Pay attention to the tracks and ask people questions, a lot of the time they have various markers out before you get into a turn that denote different braking zones, so you find the one that's closest to your ideal braking point and use it as a reference for when to start braking.
Also consider investing in a few things like harnesses and tires, better shocks and other chassis/suspension goodies. That's if you plan on doing this regularly. Toyo Proxes RA1 are a favorite among a lot of road/autox racers. Just like there are drag radials for drag racing, there are competition DOT approved tires for twisty racing. And Schroth Racing makes DOT approved 4 point harnesses that can be bolted to the factory mounting locations WITH the factory belts. A tight harness to keep you in your seat actually makes a large difference in your ability to control the car. You don't have to hang on the steering wheel like a gorilla in a tree. You can use those or the factory belt on the street, and run the 4pnt on the course. Makes sure they'll work with your factory seats though, thy need something that has a strong seat back and some type of head rest posts to hold the shoulder belts in place.
But honestly, the best piece of advice is to not get crazy on the course. Remember that it's your car that you have to drive, not a race car. It may slide on pavement, but you get off into the dirt or soft grass where the tires can dig in, and it is possible to flip it, and while it's unlikely at the lower autox speeds, why take chances.
Also if you or a friend has a decent video camera, try and mount it somewhere where it can see the roadway and you Not only is it fun to have on board video, but you can use it to look at what you were doing afterward, and see what, if anything, you did wrong. and you can post it here for us to watch
Also consider investing in a few things like harnesses and tires, better shocks and other chassis/suspension goodies. That's if you plan on doing this regularly. Toyo Proxes RA1 are a favorite among a lot of road/autox racers. Just like there are drag radials for drag racing, there are competition DOT approved tires for twisty racing. And Schroth Racing makes DOT approved 4 point harnesses that can be bolted to the factory mounting locations WITH the factory belts. A tight harness to keep you in your seat actually makes a large difference in your ability to control the car. You don't have to hang on the steering wheel like a gorilla in a tree. You can use those or the factory belt on the street, and run the 4pnt on the course. Makes sure they'll work with your factory seats though, thy need something that has a strong seat back and some type of head rest posts to hold the shoulder belts in place.
But honestly, the best piece of advice is to not get crazy on the course. Remember that it's your car that you have to drive, not a race car. It may slide on pavement, but you get off into the dirt or soft grass where the tires can dig in, and it is possible to flip it, and while it's unlikely at the lower autox speeds, why take chances.
Also if you or a friend has a decent video camera, try and mount it somewhere where it can see the roadway and you Not only is it fun to have on board video, but you can use it to look at what you were doing afterward, and see what, if anything, you did wrong. and you can post it here for us to watch
05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
#9
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1,278
it really doesn't matter what kind of car you're running. just about anything can compete, and it's a friggen blast. i've got one championship under my belt with the 3rd gen. gonna try and get another with the LT1 
05-04-2010, 09:00 AM
#10
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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I probably won't do the harness or the wheels for a while because of $$$, but I already have a good amount of suspension done. I have H&R race springs and Koni Yellows. I think I'm currently running a half turn from full stiffness on all four corners, although it may be a full turn. I don't remember. lol