New Personal Best
08-22-2010, 11:18 PM
#11
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,302
Tons of options for sure, which is good, but if you want to go as fast as possible, I would definitely stick with an auto. I hear ya on the street-able part. I ran into the same problem with a previous auto car of mine. I almost went with a manual valve body, and later considered a 3-speed, but figured either of those would get old with a quickness. A built 4r70 sounds like a plan as long as the shift pressure isn't bone jarring. You'll just have to find some middle ground that you can live with.
08-23-2010, 03:39 AM
#13
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
There are a few companies that rebuild and upgrade our current transmission to be rated around 750HP. They also change a few things inside the tranny to make them proshifted, which is basically powershifting.
I looked into getting a liberty tranny. The type that has a clutch to start with but is clutchless afterwards. It's a "W" or "N" pattern. They are very expensive, noisey and not built for street use. I drive my car so much on the street that it has to be streetable.
Depending on when it blows, I may put in a built automatic. Either a 4r70w or a Turbo400. That would be the fastest combination by far. But pricey.
I looked into getting a liberty tranny. The type that has a clutch to start with but is clutchless afterwards. It's a "W" or "N" pattern. They are very expensive, noisey and not built for street use. I drive my car so much on the street that it has to be streetable.
Depending on when it blows, I may put in a built automatic. Either a 4r70w or a Turbo400. That would be the fastest combination by far. But pricey.
08-23-2010, 12:38 PM
#16
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 4,552
Never have heard of that particular one. I haven't looked into them at all. I probably should.
I just want something I will still be able to drive on the street. Don't really care if it's a manual body or reverse style. Just as long as it lasts and is user friendly.
As far as the pro-shifted face plates and stuff, I have not researched them very much. I guess it is questions I should ask the company and others when I look into them more.
I just want something I will still be able to drive on the street. Don't really care if it's a manual body or reverse style. Just as long as it lasts and is user friendly.
As far as the pro-shifted face plates and stuff, I have not researched them very much. I guess it is questions I should ask the company and others when I look into them more.
08-23-2010, 02:14 PM
#18
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
As far as the face plating etc....
Typical manual trans has a slider with teeth in it, gear has a dog gear on it, slider moves over the dog gear and the synchro matches their speeds and it meshes. Face plating, pro shifting, dog ring and slider etc replaces the dog gear on the gear cluster and the slider, where gear teeth in them are farther apart or a face plate gear with a dog ring slider, only a few of them with a lot of space in between(that's the engagement "window"). The synchro is removed. So when you shift, those narrow arms on the dog ring or wider teeth on the new slider have less gear teeth with more space to "fall into."
Grossly oversimplifying, but it basically allows for butter smooth shifting at high rpm, and makes it very very hard to miss a shift. Pro shifting basically uses fewer teeth with a wider pattern, and face plating uses a face gear on the gear cluster with a dong ring or dog faced slider that meshes into it. In both cases what you have is a situation where there's a lot of empty space in the gear mesh, so when you shift, the gears that are meshing basically "fall" into place. There's no synchronization, since you don't have a tight gear pattern that needs to be meshed, it's a much wide gear pattern where it either falls in, or lands face to face and as everything turns it slides over the face of the gear tooth and falls in. Of course the problem with that is when engagement occurs the dog gear etc is basically "slapping" as it grabs, or if it lands on a tooth face as it slides over the edge of the tooth and drops in, the corners of the gears rub.
Both lead to wear, burring on the edges of the gears typically, and the trans has to be periodically torn down to re dress the shifting mechanism parts. Faceplating is generally a better set up, mainly since it gives more contact area so the wear is less....so it doesn't need as much maintenance, but has more upfront cost.
http://www.libertysgears.com/proshift.htm Quick picture of them, to give you an idea.
It's a superior shifting setup in terms of performance to a synchronized mechanism like a production car, but tearing the trans down to dress the gears regularly is not an option for production cars. And it's noisy.
Typical manual trans has a slider with teeth in it, gear has a dog gear on it, slider moves over the dog gear and the synchro matches their speeds and it meshes. Face plating, pro shifting, dog ring and slider etc replaces the dog gear on the gear cluster and the slider, where gear teeth in them are farther apart or a face plate gear with a dog ring slider, only a few of them with a lot of space in between(that's the engagement "window"). The synchro is removed. So when you shift, those narrow arms on the dog ring or wider teeth on the new slider have less gear teeth with more space to "fall into."
Grossly oversimplifying, but it basically allows for butter smooth shifting at high rpm, and makes it very very hard to miss a shift. Pro shifting basically uses fewer teeth with a wider pattern, and face plating uses a face gear on the gear cluster with a dong ring or dog faced slider that meshes into it. In both cases what you have is a situation where there's a lot of empty space in the gear mesh, so when you shift, the gears that are meshing basically "fall" into place. There's no synchronization, since you don't have a tight gear pattern that needs to be meshed, it's a much wide gear pattern where it either falls in, or lands face to face and as everything turns it slides over the face of the gear tooth and falls in. Of course the problem with that is when engagement occurs the dog gear etc is basically "slapping" as it grabs, or if it lands on a tooth face as it slides over the edge of the tooth and drops in, the corners of the gears rub.
Both lead to wear, burring on the edges of the gears typically, and the trans has to be periodically torn down to re dress the shifting mechanism parts. Faceplating is generally a better set up, mainly since it gives more contact area so the wear is less....so it doesn't need as much maintenance, but has more upfront cost.
http://www.libertysgears.com/proshift.htm Quick picture of them, to give you an idea.
It's a superior shifting setup in terms of performance to a synchronized mechanism like a production car, but tearing the trans down to dress the gears regularly is not an option for production cars. And it's noisy.
08-23-2010, 10:37 PM
#20
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 4,552
As far as the face plating etc....
Typical manual trans has a slider with teeth in it, gear has a dog gear on it, slider moves over the dog gear and the synchro matches their speeds and it meshes. Face plating, pro shifting, dog ring and slider etc replaces the dog gear on the gear cluster and the slider, where gear teeth in them are farther apart or a face plate gear with a dog ring slider, only a few of them with a lot of space in between(that's the engagement "window"). The synchro is removed. So when you shift, those narrow arms on the dog ring or wider teeth on the new slider have less gear teeth with more space to "fall into."
Grossly oversimplifying, but it basically allows for butter smooth shifting at high rpm, and makes it very very hard to miss a shift. Pro shifting basically uses fewer teeth with a wider pattern, and face plating uses a face gear on the gear cluster with a dong ring or dog faced slider that meshes into it. In both cases what you have is a situation where there's a lot of empty space in the gear mesh, so when you shift, the gears that are meshing basically "fall" into place. There's no synchronization, since you don't have a tight gear pattern that needs to be meshed, it's a much wide gear pattern where it either falls in, or lands face to face and as everything turns it slides over the face of the gear tooth and falls in. Of course the problem with that is when engagement occurs the dog gear etc is basically "slapping" as it grabs, or if it lands on a tooth face as it slides over the edge of the tooth and drops in, the corners of the gears rub.
Both lead to wear, burring on the edges of the gears typically, and the trans has to be periodically torn down to re dress the shifting mechanism parts. Faceplating is generally a better set up, mainly since it gives more contact area so the wear is less....so it doesn't need as much maintenance, but has more upfront cost.
http://www.libertysgears.com/proshift.htm Quick picture of them, to give you an idea.
It's a superior shifting setup in terms of performance to a synchronized mechanism like a production car, but tearing the trans down to dress the gears regularly is not an option for production cars. And it's noisy.
Typical manual trans has a slider with teeth in it, gear has a dog gear on it, slider moves over the dog gear and the synchro matches their speeds and it meshes. Face plating, pro shifting, dog ring and slider etc replaces the dog gear on the gear cluster and the slider, where gear teeth in them are farther apart or a face plate gear with a dog ring slider, only a few of them with a lot of space in between(that's the engagement "window"). The synchro is removed. So when you shift, those narrow arms on the dog ring or wider teeth on the new slider have less gear teeth with more space to "fall into."
Grossly oversimplifying, but it basically allows for butter smooth shifting at high rpm, and makes it very very hard to miss a shift. Pro shifting basically uses fewer teeth with a wider pattern, and face plating uses a face gear on the gear cluster with a dong ring or dog faced slider that meshes into it. In both cases what you have is a situation where there's a lot of empty space in the gear mesh, so when you shift, the gears that are meshing basically "fall" into place. There's no synchronization, since you don't have a tight gear pattern that needs to be meshed, it's a much wide gear pattern where it either falls in, or lands face to face and as everything turns it slides over the face of the gear tooth and falls in. Of course the problem with that is when engagement occurs the dog gear etc is basically "slapping" as it grabs, or if it lands on a tooth face as it slides over the edge of the tooth and drops in, the corners of the gears rub.
Both lead to wear, burring on the edges of the gears typically, and the trans has to be periodically torn down to re dress the shifting mechanism parts. Faceplating is generally a better set up, mainly since it gives more contact area so the wear is less....so it doesn't need as much maintenance, but has more upfront cost.
http://www.libertysgears.com/proshift.htm Quick picture of them, to give you an idea.
It's a superior shifting setup in terms of performance to a synchronized mechanism like a production car, but tearing the trans down to dress the gears regularly is not an option for production cars. And it's noisy.
Thanks!
Depending on how my October hunting goes, I will try and head down to Sac.
Last edited by Stkjock; 08-24-2010 at 05:35 AM. Reason: please use the multi quote feature - or edit your posts